Adding stylesheet action

Freeway
1

I should know this, but what actions/options are there to speed up adding my own extra stylesheet link to the head of a page?

(I’m currently adding manually page > HTML markup > add before /head)…

I’m adding some mobile responsive styles to override some of Freeway document styles. So I don’t want to externalise all styles first. Simply add a stylesheet so I can edit externally in a text editor.

David Owen { Freeway Friendly Web hosting and Domains }

http://www.ineedwebhosting.co.uk | http://www.PrintlineAdvertising.co.uk

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

2

Hi David.

I just use the ESS - Use External Style Sheet action.

It adds the style sheets at the bottom of the head so it will overwrite any styles in the freeways stylesheets.

Works a treat.

Al.

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

3

Thanks. I’ll give it a go.

David Owen { Freeway Friendly Web hosting and Domains }

http://www.ineedwebhosting.co.uk | http://www.PrintlineAdvertising.co.uk

On 25 Apr 2013, at 10:34, Alan Herbert email@hidden wrote:

Hi David.

I just use the ESS - Use External Style Sheet action.

It adds the style sheets at the bottom of the head so it will overwrite any styles in the freeways stylesheets.

Works a treat.

Al.

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

4

Hi David
There is Script Maker & Linker
This will allow you to create the blank css styles sheets edit them with what ever styles you wish, place them in the css folder and link to them from any other page plus you can order them as well by just referencing then in the order you wish them to be written

if you also use the external reset action with the script maker you can use a reset style sheet as well which will be written before all the other styles sheets.

max

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

5

Alternatively you could do EXACTLY the same thing with texteditor and
pasting 1 line of html. What am I missing?

On 25 April 2013 16:08, max email@hidden wrote:

Hi David
There is Script Maker & Linker
This will allow you to create the blank css styles sheets edit them with
what ever styles you wish, place them in the css folder and link to them
from any other page plus you can order them as well by just referencing
then in the order you wish them to be written

if you also use the external reset action with the script maker you can
use a reset style sheet as well which will be written before all the other
styles sheets.

max

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

6

Thanks

Kind Regards
David Owen

On 25 Apr 2013, at 16:08, “max” email@hidden wrote:

Hi David
There is Script Maker & Linker
This will allow you to create the blank css styles sheets edit them with what ever styles you wish, place them in the css folder and link to them from any other page plus you can order them as well by just referencing then in the order you wish them to be written

if you also use the external reset action with the script maker you can use a reset style sheet as well which will be written before all the other styles sheets.

max

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

7

hi Glynster
are you saying you have worked out a way of…

  1. creating the style sheets
  2. written the url reference correctly from anywhere in the freeway document page hierarchy, regardless of how many sub folders there are
  3. edit those style sheets
  4. specify the load order of those style sheets and kept it all within freeway so it doesn’t rely on an external file ?

and all from EXACTLY from one line of html?
if you know how to do this then I would be absolutely interested on what you mean.

all the best max

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

8

IN short, yes, I have to all that you ask - its called minimal common sense
and without it a person could not operate a computer since, according to
you, locating a file and adding a link to a stylesheet requires bloated
automation by essentially hacking FW with a pointless action that adds no
functionality beyond what the built-in HTML markup option provides. The
action you refer to doesn’t automatically create a stylesheet so your logic
that a person can write a CSS file but still not have the basic skill to
link to it is laughable.

Not to mention the ridiculous implication that the setting load order of a
stylesheet is any more complex then this…

one.css
two.css

On 25 April 2013 18:31, max email@hidden wrote:

hi Glynster
are you saying you have worked out a way of…

  1. creating the style sheets
  2. written the url reference correctly from anywhere in the freeway
    document page hierarchy, regardless of how many sub folders there are
  3. edit those style sheets
  4. specify the load order of those style sheets and kept it all within
    freeway so it doesn’t rely on an external file ?

and all from EXACTLY from one line of html?
if you know how to do this then I would be absolutely interested on what
you mean.

all the best max

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

9

Glyn, I don’t imagine for a minute that Max is denigrating your skills or those of any other user. No need to get all defensive here.

Certainly, anyone with a text editor (or a Mac, but I repeat myself) can change the stylesheets in a Freeway-generated html file. Those changes will only last until the next edit of the page, as you know. As long as you are willing to commit to post-processing your pages with a text editor each time you make a change, then you are certainly welcome to follow this course.

The benefit to Actions (and I have written so many) is that they can automate this sort of post-processing, and keep Freeway front and center in your workflow. If you are committed to using Freeway as a sketch tool, as I mostly do any more, then the Actions are less important to your overall workflow. But for many of the people who come to Freeway without your wealth of experience (hard-won at the hands of Dreamweaver) then that approach will at least come as a bit of a shock, or a stumbling block to completing the task they have set for themselves (design a page or site, not code a page or site).

Walter

On Apr 25, 2013, at 1:44 PM, Glyn Winter wrote:

IN short, yes, I have to all that you ask - its called minimal common sense
and without it a person could not operate a computer since, according to
you, locating a file and adding a link to a stylesheet requires bloated
automation by essentially hacking FW with a pointless action that adds no
functionality beyond what the built-in HTML markup option provides. The
action you refer to doesn’t automatically create a stylesheet so your logic
that a person can write a CSS file but still not have the basic skill to
link to it is laughable.

Not to mention the ridiculous implication that the setting load order of a
stylesheet is any more complex then this…

one.css
two.css

On 25 April 2013 18:31, max email@hidden wrote:

hi Glynster
are you saying you have worked out a way of…

  1. creating the style sheets
  2. written the url reference correctly from anywhere in the freeway
    document page hierarchy, regardless of how many sub folders there are
  3. edit those style sheets
  4. specify the load order of those style sheets and kept it all within
    freeway so it doesn’t rely on an external file ?

and all from EXACTLY from one line of html?
if you know how to do this then I would be absolutely interested on what
you mean.

all the best max

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

10

I appreciate your argument but my point is that the entire problem is
already well solved within FW. Assuming that the user has the skills to
write or modify their own script (CSS, JS, PHP whatever) then surely they
also have the sense to know how to link to it using a line of html - all
they need to know is HOW to do it in FW using the HTML markup action - and,
unless the user-made action also writes the CSS for the novice user, which
it does not, duplicating this functionality adds no further benefit

I appreciate what you are saying about keeping things within the FW
workflow but again this is solved within FW. We can already secure a link
to a custom stylesheet in the FW workflow by pasting the infamous “single
line of html” stylesheet link using the “HTML markup” action built into FW
before the end of the head. This, perfectly solves the only problem I can
see here - keeping the link within the repeat workflow of FW.

On 25 April 2013 19:03, Walter Lee Davis email@hidden wrote:

Glyn, I don’t imagine for a minute that Max is denigrating your skills or
those of any other user. No need to get all defensive here.

Certainly, anyone with a text editor (or a Mac, but I repeat myself) can
change the stylesheets in a Freeway-generated html file. Those changes will
only last until the next edit of the page, as you know. As long as you are
willing to commit to post-processing your pages with a text editor each
time you make a change, then you are certainly welcome to follow this
course.

The benefit to Actions (and I have written so many) is that they can
automate this sort of post-processing, and keep Freeway front and center in
your workflow. If you are committed to using Freeway as a sketch tool, as I
mostly do any more, then the Actions are less important to your overall
workflow. But for many of the people who come to Freeway without your
wealth of experience (hard-won at the hands of Dreamweaver) then that
approach will at least come as a bit of a shock, or a stumbling block to
completing the task they have set for themselves (design a page or site,
not code a page or site).

Walter

On Apr 25, 2013, at 1:44 PM, Glyn Winter wrote:

IN short, yes, I have to all that you ask - its called minimal common
sense
and without it a person could not operate a computer since, according to
you, locating a file and adding a link to a stylesheet requires bloated
automation by essentially hacking FW with a pointless action that adds no
functionality beyond what the built-in HTML markup option provides. The
action you refer to doesn’t automatically create a stylesheet so your
logic
that a person can write a CSS file but still not have the basic skill to
link to it is laughable.

Not to mention the ridiculous implication that the setting load order of
a
stylesheet is any more complex then this…

one.css
two.css

On 25 April 2013 18:31, max email@hidden wrote:

hi Glynster
are you saying you have worked out a way of…

  1. creating the style sheets
  2. written the url reference correctly from anywhere in the freeway
    document page hierarchy, regardless of how many sub folders there are
  3. edit those style sheets
  4. specify the load order of those style sheets and kept it all within
    freeway so it doesn’t rely on an external file ?

and all from EXACTLY from one line of html?
if you know how to do this then I would be absolutely interested on what
you mean.

all the best max

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

11

On Apr 25, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Glyn Winter wrote:

I appreciate your argument but my point is that the entire problem is
already well solved within FW. Assuming that the user has the skills to
write or modify their own script (CSS, JS, PHP whatever) then surely they
also have the sense to know how to link to it using a line of html - all
they need to know is HOW to do it in FW using the HTML markup action - and,
unless the user-made action also writes the CSS for the novice user, which
it does not, duplicating this functionality adds no further benefit

It maintains a consistent link to the file (and uploads the file at the same time, so it “knows” where that file really is). Freeway doesn’t always put these resource files where you think it should or name them what you think they should be named, so this approach lends itself to fixing these issues before they become problems.

I appreciate what you are saying about keeping things within the FW
workflow but again this is solved within FW. We can already secure a link
to a custom stylesheet in the FW workflow by pasting the infamous “single
line of html” stylesheet link using the “HTML markup” action built into FW
before the end of the head. This, perfectly solves the only problem I can
see here - keeping the link within the repeat workflow of FW.

Yes, but Freeway will always try to be “smarter” than you want it to – it will relentlessly reduce the number of instances of a given file to remove duplicates, and you need to (as Max alluded) maintain a strong mental model of the relative distance from your page to that resource in order to write URLs that survive the Freeway publish process. Now if you are stepping around Freeway, using a third-party FTP application to upload the extra file to a location of your choosing, and manually writing a root-relative path to that file /mystyle/extra.css, then sure, you can write one line and all is well. But that also means that you have to upload to your server to see your changes. The Action method means that you always have relative links that work, and if you re-arrange the pages in your site (re-nest them in different folders, say) those links will always just work.

Walter

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

12

Honestly, that’s a huge amount of “problem-izing” you’re doing there to
justify a particular solution - granted, it sounds like a huge issue when
you describe it like that - but all you need is write the absolute URL of
the stylesheet instead of a relative link to satisfy every concern you
raised there.

Again, I cant see somebody comfortable in scripting but unable to drag and
drop with ftp.

On 25 April 2013 19:52, Walter Lee Davis email@hidden wrote:

On Apr 25, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Glyn Winter wrote:

I appreciate your argument but my point is that the entire problem is
already well solved within FW. Assuming that the user has the skills to
write or modify their own script (CSS, JS, PHP whatever) then surely they
also have the sense to know how to link to it using a line of html - all
they need to know is HOW to do it in FW using the HTML markup action -
and,
unless the user-made action also writes the CSS for the novice user,
which
it does not, duplicating this functionality adds no further benefit

It maintains a consistent link to the file (and uploads the file at the
same time, so it “knows” where that file really is). Freeway doesn’t always
put these resource files where you think it should or name them what you
think they should be named, so this approach lends itself to fixing these
issues before they become problems.

I appreciate what you are saying about keeping things within the FW
workflow but again this is solved within FW. We can already secure a
link
to a custom stylesheet in the FW workflow by pasting the infamous “single
line of html” stylesheet link using the “HTML markup” action built into
FW
before the end of the head. This, perfectly solves the only problem I can
see here - keeping the link within the repeat workflow of FW.

Yes, but Freeway will always try to be “smarter” than you want it to – it
will relentlessly reduce the number of instances of a given file to remove
duplicates, and you need to (as Max alluded) maintain a strong mental model
of the relative distance from your page to that resource in order to write
URLs that survive the Freeway publish process. Now if you are stepping
around Freeway, using a third-party FTP application to upload the extra
file to a location of your choosing, and manually writing a root-relative
path to that file /mystyle/extra.css, then sure, you can write one line and
all is well. But that also means that you have to upload to your server to
see your changes. The Action method means that you always have relative
links that work, and if you re-arrange the pages in your site (re-nest them
in different folders, say) those links will always just work.

Walter

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

13

I suppose we should just celebrate the fact that there is more than one way
to skin this particular cat in FW.

On 25 April 2013 20:40, Glyn Winter email@hidden wrote:

Honestly, that’s a huge amount of “problem-izing” you’re doing there to
justify a particular solution - granted, it sounds like a huge issue when
you describe it like that - but all you need is write the absolute URL of
the stylesheet instead of a relative link to satisfy every concern you
raised there.

Again, I cant see somebody comfortable in scripting but unable to drag and
drop with ftp.

On 25 April 2013 19:52, Walter Lee Davis email@hidden wrote:

On Apr 25, 2013, at 2:30 PM, Glyn Winter wrote:

I appreciate your argument but my point is that the entire problem is
already well solved within FW. Assuming that the user has the skills to
write or modify their own script (CSS, JS, PHP whatever) then surely
they
also have the sense to know how to link to it using a line of html - all
they need to know is HOW to do it in FW using the HTML markup action -
and,
unless the user-made action also writes the CSS for the novice user,
which
it does not, duplicating this functionality adds no further benefit

It maintains a consistent link to the file (and uploads the file at the
same time, so it “knows” where that file really is). Freeway doesn’t always
put these resource files where you think it should or name them what you
think they should be named, so this approach lends itself to fixing these
issues before they become problems.

I appreciate what you are saying about keeping things within the FW
workflow but again this is solved within FW. We can already secure a
link
to a custom stylesheet in the FW workflow by pasting the infamous
“single
line of html” stylesheet link using the “HTML markup” action built into
FW
before the end of the head. This, perfectly solves the only problem I
can
see here - keeping the link within the repeat workflow of FW.

Yes, but Freeway will always try to be “smarter” than you want it to –
it will relentlessly reduce the number of instances of a given file to
remove duplicates, and you need to (as Max alluded) maintain a strong
mental model of the relative distance from your page to that resource in
order to write URLs that survive the Freeway publish process. Now if you
are stepping around Freeway, using a third-party FTP application to upload
the extra file to a location of your choosing, and manually writing a
root-relative path to that file /mystyle/extra.css, then sure, you can
write one line and all is well. But that also means that you have to upload
to your server to see your changes. The Action method means that you always
have relative links that work, and if you re-arrange the pages in your site
(re-nest them in different folders, say) those links will always just work.

Walter

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

14

You are new here, then. There are a lot of people who can’t script or would ever touch an FTP app, who still manage to make some pretty cool sites with Freeway. Graphic designers, mostly, although some are business owners who have an idea, no budget, and no skill or willingness to code.

Those of us who write Actions tend to cover the bases that these folks will need, to pave the cowpaths so we don’t have to explain the difference between a root and a relative path “one” “more” “time”. Or why you can’t preview the former on your Mac. Coming as you do from the land of hand-coding, it’s very easy to see things from your end of the telescope, and think “what’s their problem?” I know exactly how you feel.

My own experience is somewhat different. I learned HTML by deconstructing Freeway-generated pages so I could thread in the ASP code my partner was writing back in the late 90s. We learned the very hard way what happened when he opened up the generated code, inserted his dynamic bits, and then I responded to a client change by re-publishing the site. (Nothing good, by the way. Much shouting on his part.)

Along the way, I have learned to write HTML from scratch in a text editor, to write JavaScript and Python and PHP and Ruby, and I’ve continued the tradition of helping others come up that learning curve, just as I was helped in my formative years by other members of the Freeway community. In my case, I like to write programs to solve problems, and Freeway Actions give me a rich field to till – lots of problems to solve there.

Walter

On Apr 25, 2013, at 3:40 PM, Glyn Winter wrote:

Again, I cant see somebody comfortable in scripting but unable to drag and
drop with ftp.

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

15

I would give my left nut for an update to the Simple Include Pro action…
while I can write includes, the ability to merge things within Freeway Pro
6 is a powerful way to work. Even for advanced users.

Actions make life easier for those who want it easier. The very few that I
use have made mine very much so.

–
Ernie Simpson, aka The Big Erns

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

16

My original question was… “what actions/options are there to speed up adding my own extra stylesheet” as the method below. I’ll test the actions to see if in this case there’s any benefit.

As Walt mentions depending how far down the line you are in using Freeway you’ve probably developed a unique workflow that is not quite the same as when you first started using it. Using it to quickly sketch out sites, manage code and resources (it’s greatest strength) but then using actions to manipulate and insert CMS code functions or more recently responsive sites CCS.

David Owen

On 25 Apr 2013, at 19:30, Glyn Winter email@hidden wrote:

We can already secure a link
to a custom stylesheet in the FW workflow by pasting the infamous “single
line of html” stylesheet link using the “HTML markup” action built into FW
before the end of the head. This, perfectly solves the only problem I can
see here - keeping the link within the repeat workflow of FW.

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

17

"My original question was… “what actions/options are there to speed up adding my own extra stylesheet”… "

In that case David, cmd+c this…

Then cmd+v

Quick enough for you? :slight_smile:

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

18

Well, it’s more than that. You also need to make sure “mystyle.css” is
uploaded to a place that the link code can get to. There are ways to make
FWP do that for you too, but it is a lot of rigamarole.

Glyn, I think we are like minded when it comes to abilities and workflows.
I’ve never used most of the actions people in the forum seem to rely on,
preferring to do things like manually create all my own menus - within
Freeway Pro of course. Nor do I use any of the “graphic” stuff. However, I
learned long ago that you will never win any arguments like this - all you
can do is teach and let people make up their own minds.

–
Ernie Simpson

On Thu, Apr 25, 2013 at 7:36 PM, Glynster email@hidden wrote:

"My original question was… “what actions/options are there to speed up
adding my own extra stylesheet”… "

In that case David, cmd+c this…

Then cmd+v

Quick enough for you? :slight_smile:

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

19

On 25 Apr 2013, 9:30 am, David Owen wrote:

I should know this, but what actions/options are there to speed up adding my own extra stylesheet link to the head of a page?

(I’m currently adding manually page > HTML markup > add before /head)…

I’m adding some mobile responsive styles to override some of Freeway document styles. So I don’t want to externalise all styles first. Simply add a stylesheet so I can edit externally in a text editor.

David Owen { Freeway Friendly Web hosting and Domains }

http://www.ineedwebhosting.co.uk | http://www.PrintlineAdvertising.co.uk

David,

I find this interesting. So, when you design a new website for a client is your preference to design a regular sized site plus a mobile responsive site?

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

20

Hi Glynster
I re-read my post and it does read ‘a bit sarcastic’ please accept my apologise… it wasn’t meant to be. :o)

Your method of hand coding via html markup is absolutely valid and yes if you used absolute / relative url’s or probably better still root-relative urls which would negate some of the the problem of site page structure/restructure then you will accomplish everything you mentioned very quickly.

As Walter and Big Erns have eluded to… a lot freeway users have a limited knowledge of html code. and when you start to add css, php, asp, js etc etc… into the mix, most prefer to hand it over to actions to help them out. That’s not to say your workflow is wrong, it’s just different from most users standpoint I often will use html markup but a lot of people don’t… but as you have said ‘there are many ways to skin a cat’.

All the best max

freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options