Create arc, use shift key to constrain its stroke to 45 degree increments.
Do something else, go back to arc, shift key still constrains its stroke to 45 degree increments.
Now drag arc to another location. Shift key no longer constrains arc, it just makes its path go haywire.
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This is weird too, and is present in b6
Look at this pdf of reshaped arcs, the ends have gone funny.
http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~mjr/arctest.pdf
Here is the file, have a go at reshaping these arcs (scroll to bottom) with the shift key held down, look at how the funny ends move about:
http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~mjr/arctest.intaglio
Because these save to pdf, I conclude that they are real rather than screen drawing errors, but there seem to be no handles to manipulate.
Any thoughts?
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I’m afraid I can’t seem to either reproduce this bug in b6
Nor can I download your Intaglio file either (which doesn’t help)
I appreciate that this is frustrating for you. I also apologise
for ‘hijacking’ your thread- It’s the nature of how this list works.
I wish Purgatory design would turn it into a ‘proper’ forum (phpbb-
that sort of thing).
I also use Microspot MacDraft btw, which is very similar to Intaglio
(and hasn’t got the ‘ghastly interface’ that you describe (yes QCAD does
have a ghastly interface! :¬) ).
Tom
On 4 Jul 2008, at 12:23, Max Roberts wrote:
Any thoughts?
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Not a problem, lets just focus on trying to make a great vector graphics package even better.
Try the following to download the file (from Safari): Control-click on the link to bring up a contextual menu and “Save linked file as…”, delete the .txt from the name and click save, decline the invitation to add .txt
Have had a look at Microspot MacDraft, definitely a better package than the last one, it would be possible to make good maps using it but not the best. The features are good for getting something quick and dirty together, but take away a lot of the control from the designer. Also, align and distribute functions are essential for doing a map, and in Intaglio are great and work really well. In MacDraft they don’t seem to offer as good a range of options. I also couldn’t find a way of getting true zoom on MacDraft: zooming in made strokes thinner. No way could I design a map like that.
The smart guides in Intaglio have enormous potential. If only they could be a little bit smarter, perhaps with modifier keys to help them along. They sew up horizontals and verticals, if only they could sew up diagonal alignments too.
There are two other things about Intaglio that make it incredibly useful for making a map. First, copy and paste, click on an object and then paste, the pasted object lands dead centre of the clicked object. Perfect, interchange circles in the right place every time (amongst other things). Second, the underlying engine seems fundamentally sound. If I abut two objects perfectly at, say, 800% magnification, they will appear be perfectly abutted at all levels of zoom out. You would not believe the number of applications that cannot manage that.
If only the glitches with the arcs and diagonals could be fixed, which they really should be by Version 3, I can see at least one large cartography company switching to Intaglio.
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I agree.
I also wish that they had an indicator attached to them which would
appear where the mouse pointer is pressed, with an indication of the
distance from the border to where the smart guide currently is.
I also wish that the smart guide could be repositioned, rather than
having to erase them, and starting over.
(Look at BeLight’s Swift Publisher- to see what I mean).
Try the following to download the file (from Safari): Control-click
on the link to bring up a contextual menu and “Save linked file
as…”, delete the .txt from the name and click save, decline >>the
invitation to add .txt
FWIW, I’m not having much luck with this. I’m not even getting the
invitation to add txt. (MBP2, 10.5.4)
On 4 Jul 2008, at 14:06, Max Roberts wrote:
The smart guides in Intaglio have enormous potential. If only they
could be a little bit smarter, perhaps with modifier keys to help
them along. They sew up horizontals and verticals, if only they
could sew up diagonal alignments too.
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On Jul 4, 2008, at 7:40 AM, Tom Fenn wrote:
I’m afraid I can’t seem to either reproduce this bug in b6
Nor can I download your Intaglio file either (which doesn’t help)
I clicked on
http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~mjr/arctest.intaglio
which showed some nonsense.
I saved the nonsense but deleted .txt from
arctest.intaglio.txt
Then I clicked and Intaglio took over.
Regards
–schremmer
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Ahh- I was getting .dms whatever that means, but no worries, Max and I
have been communicating off list, so there isn’t a problem any longer.
There does look like a bug there. I’m sure Max will report back soon.
Tom
On 4 Jul 2008, at 16:05, Alain Schremmer wrote:
On Jul 4, 2008, at 7:40 AM, Tom Fenn wrote:
I’m afraid I can’t seem to either reproduce this bug in b6
Nor can I download your Intaglio file either (which doesn’t help)I clicked on
http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~mjr/arctest.intaglio
which showed some nonsense.
I saved the nonsense but deleted .txt from
arctest.intaglio.txt
Then I clicked and Intaglio took over.
Regards
–schremmer
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On Jul 4, 2008, at 9:06 AM, Max Roberts wrote:
They sew up horizontals and verticals, if only they could sew up
diagonal alignments too.
I had a feeling i had run a couple of times into something involving
squares that were not quite squares and that I had thought might be
related to the fact that the vertical and the horizontal definitions
are different but couldn’t reproduce.
Regards
–schremmer
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On Jul 4, 2008, at 11:10 AM, Tom Fenn wrote:
but no worries, Max and I
have been communicating off list, so there isn’t a problem any longer.
Ah! I sure prefer it that way.
Grateful regards
–schremmer
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Its a funny one that is linked to the shift key, not reshaping without the shift key immediately cleans up the edges. What seems to work best is to adjust the arc shiftless until it is nearly right, then just hit the shift key to lock it in position, not perfect, the mouse still needs to be fiddles with, but it seems to work just about. I am just bemused as to how you can get a change of direction without a rogue handle there somewhere.
Try it, convert one of the dud arcs to a curve and swivel the handel at that end. You see something really odd, possibly a clue to what is going wrong.
When I get home I will open up the pdf with Canvas and see whether it will let me get at what is happening.
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It is precisely these little quirks that really annoy me about
Intaglio, because actually, Intaglio has huge potential- it is
actually a great bit of software, just let down by these weird
occasional bugs and blips. It’s a bit like this list too- both in need
of taking one step backwards and having a good rethink. The images of
the maps are really great, but let us have a gallery so great images
like these can be on display properly- something like a phpbb type
forum offers. I mean this present system doesn’t even allow Mail to
sort Intaglio posts into their own mailboxes 
Come on Freeway folk! What do you people think? In fact, what about
all you Intaglio users out there? What do you think too??
On 4 Jul 2008, at 16:30, Max Roberts wrote:
Try it, convert one of the dud arcs to a curve and swivel the handel
at that end. You see something really odd, possibly a clue to what
is going wrong.
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I was thinking myself, its all very well for having a forum for a graphics package, but how do I post up images. Most of what people discuss here is going to be visual, and as we have seen, posting up intaglio files is tricky because most browsers don’t know what to do with them.
Intaglio is the first time I have played with a graphics package and thought ‘this is fantastic’ since I first tried SuperPaint II in 1989.
Ouch, thats almost 20 years ago!
From: email@hidden on behalf of Tom Fenn
Sent: Fri 04/07/2008 21:08
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: b6 still has arc bug/ list-forum update request!
It is precisely these little quirks that really annoy me about
Intaglio, because actually, Intaglio has huge potential- it is
actually a great bit of software, just let down by these weird
occasional bugs and blips. It’s a bit like this list too- both in need
of taking one step backwards and having a good rethink. The images of
the maps are really great, but let us have a gallery so great images
like these can be on display properly- something like a phpbb type
forum offers. I mean this present system doesn’t even allow Mail to
sort Intaglio posts into their own mailboxes
Come on Freeway folk! What do you people think? In fact, what about
all you Intaglio users out there? What do you think too??
On 4 Jul 2008, at 16:30, Max Roberts wrote:
Try it, convert one of the dud arcs to a curve and swivel the handel
at that end. You see something really odd, possibly a clue to what
is going wrong.
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I’ve tracked it down, when you convert arc to curve there is a second point there with tiny almost invisible handles. For some reason, at certain angles, shift-reshape adds the equivalent of an extra point on the 45degree bit, but why should it do this when arcs and curves are done differently?
How to remove the extra point is harder, because it is underneath the point with the handle going the right way that you do want to keep . Can’t surround, can’t send to back. Do wish we had more options for editing and joining curves when something like this happens.
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I had no problem downloading your Intaglio file, so I don’t know what problems there were with it.
For posting images, I’d recommend Skitch
It’s easy, they host the images for you and you can just post the link here.
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It doesn’t add an extra point when shift-reshaping here.
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How to remove the extra point is harder, because it is underneath
Sometimes i end up with a similar situation after path subtraction.
If you select the top handle and then drag a selection box over the same handle, with the shift key down, you will deselect the top handle and select the underneath one(s).
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On my original, you see that I am reshaping concentric circles. This is because I need the radii of the arcs to match perfectly, and the only way I can think of doing this is by creating a set of concentric circles first.
So, although it is possible to reshape arcs no problem, I need to do something slightly different.
From: email@hidden on behalf of KeynoteKen
Sent: Sat 05/07/2008 19:14
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: RE: b6 still has arc bug
It doesn’t add an extra point when shift-reshaping here.
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Of course, how silly of me.
Thanks
From: email@hidden on behalf of Rob Carruthers
Sent: Sat 05/07/2008 22:39
To: email@hidden
Subject: Re: RE: b6 still has arc bug
How to remove the extra point is harder, because it is underneath
Sometimes i end up with a similar situation after path subtraction.
If you select the top handle and then drag a selection box over the same handle, with the shift key down, you will deselect the top handle and select the underneath one(s).
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I thought I was probably glossing over some important detail, thanks for bringing it to my attention! I just tried to create concentric arcs using the arc tool, and I got this.
Created using concentric arcs and the duplicate, click drag I’d mentioned previously.
I selected them all, grouped, made them larger then increased the line thickness and it still looks good.
If I’m missing something else obvious, just let me know. I had not even tried to do something like this until I saw your problem and I kinda like the effect!
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