Box model no longer relevant?

Freeway
1

Given that modern browsers scale up the whole website - not just the text - and therefore the layout doesn’t ‘break’, is the box model still relevant?

… or relevant in the near future?

==============

Another question. I’m creating a couple of very simple websites (no CMS) using CSS layout. With only a few inflow items, the layout doesn’t break at larger text sizes. I presume this is OK - just because I’m using CSS layout I don’t have to do the whole box model thing?

Thanks

Mark

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2

Not all browser render the text the same. Which in a lot of cases pushes text over to different lines. Also the line space does tend to be different in certain browsers.

Nathan Garner
Creative Director

Austin Wells Design Limited
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On 6 May 2010, at 16:01, Mark wrote:

Given that modern browsers scale up the whole website - not just the text - and therefore the layout doesn’t ‘break’, is the box model still relevant?

… or relevant in the near future?

==============

Another question. I’m creating a couple of very simple websites (no CMS) using CSS layout. With only a few inflow items, the layout doesn’t break at larger text sizes. I presume this is OK - just because I’m using CSS layout I don’t have to do the whole box model thing?

Thanks

Mark

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3

The only “modern” browsers that get this right don’t come from near
Redmond, Washington. So an inline DIV layout (or a table layout) are
the only ways to really make a page that won’t fall apart when the
user makes a preference change.

Walter

On May 6, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Nathan Garner wrote:

Not all browser render the text the same. Which in a lot of cases
pushes text over to different lines. Also the line space does tend
to be different in certain browsers.

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4

Well, the box-in-box covers a multitude of sins. As I’ve had kindly pointed out to me, many pages are being updated/rewritten constantly. Think newspaper web sites.

Three columns. Left: more or less standing ToC. Middle: who knows how much text, illustrations, different stories from one hour to the next? Right: ads, each with its own bunch of text, illustration, etc.

In a table, trying to put stuff in cells, every cell affects the length of the whole row. With box-in-box, each story, each section of ToC, each ad, can be “grouped” in a box that will push those below it down, yet maintain its internal integrity, and have no effect on neighboring columns.

Pretty slick.

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5

The thing I hate about the “box model” is that you have to think of every possibility or else if you try to add things later, even if you can, will be a disaster to the page.

To me, they’re not open to change very easily.

Bob

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6

On 7 May 2010, at 13:33, Robert B wrote:

The thing I hate about the “box model” is that you have to think of every possibility or else if you try to add things later, even if you can, will be a disaster to the page.

To me, they’re not open to change very easily.

That’s true, although I think that may be a Freeway quirk. Often, I’ve tried a box model site where I’ve added half a dozen boxes, floated some of them left and right etc. then tried to add a new, single box at the very end. I’ve clicked in the main container, hoping to see a cursor flashing below everything, so I can go ‘Insert HTML item’, but it never appears. However, I’ve found that if you click where you want to insert, then insert, it will often, but not always, appear just where you want it. It does feel a bit odd though …

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

Buy my eBooks at:
http://www.paulbradforth.com/books/

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7

Also, if you click on the last item (or any item) so that it is
selected (showing handles) you can usually use your arrow keys to move
forward or back to make a new insertion point next to it.

Colin

On 7 May 2010, at 14:25, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 7 May 2010, at 13:33, Robert B wrote:

The thing I hate about the “box model” is that you have to think of
every possibility or else if you try to add things later, even if
you can, will be a disaster to the page.

To me, they’re not open to change very easily.

That’s true, although I think that may be a Freeway quirk. Often,
I’ve tried a box model site where I’ve added half a dozen boxes,
floated some of them left and right etc. then tried to add a new,
single box at the very end. I’ve clicked in the main container,
hoping to see a cursor flashing below everything, so I can go
‘Insert HTML item’, but it never appears. However, I’ve found that
if you click where you want to insert, then insert, it will often,
but not always, appear just where you want it. It does feel a bit
odd though …

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8

I’m nowhere near to using a box model at this stage in my Freeway usage, but not just because doing box models sounds terribly daunting and unwieldy. For me, box model-driven sites all seem to have a sameness to them and I’m not keen on that. The box model may promote beautifully coded sites, but I think it likewise promotes a uniformity in design that gets wearisome. Who knows? Maybe just because it’s the latest thing in web creation doesn’t mean it’s necessarily the best thing. Just my penny’s worth.

Laura

On 7 May 2010, 12:33 pm, Robert B wrote:

The thing I hate about the “box model” is that you have to think of every possibility or else if you try to add things later, even if you can, will be a disaster to the page.

To me, they’re not open to change very easily.

Bob

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9

Sometime around 7/5/10 (at 14:16 -0400) LauraB said:

I’m nowhere near to using a box model at this stage in my Freeway
usage, but not just because doing box models sounds terribly
daunting and unwieldy.

The so-called box-model approach to page construction offers some
advantages in terms of end delivery page behaviour in the browser.
Constructing these things, however, isn’t exactly simple.

In hand-coding terms, it does mean thinking of things at a slightly
more in-depth (and intense) level than ‘ordinary’ div object
placement.

In Freeway terms it means using a process that’s essentially there as
a result of other features, not something that’s been explicitly
designed from the start as a way of creating whole layouts. That’s
why moving from standard, DTP-style layout methods to the box model
method is such a painful transition. (BTW, ‘box model’ is,
apparently, not an entirely accurate term, but that’s another
issue…)

Personally, I find the whole method of building this kind of layout
so intensely distasteful and fragile that I almost never do it. It
feels counter-intuitive and it most certainly is fragile, prone to
breaking if you try to adjust things in some mysteriously ‘wrong’
way. It is damn clever stuff, but it is exploiting features in ways
that I’m sure weren’t entirely intended. Which explains the rough,
splintery edges.

Frankly, I’m more likely to make this kind of relative object layout
in code than in Freeway. I like to feel confident that I can rejig a
layout without worrying that I might having to rebuild it from
scratch. That seems to be a risk with things as they are.

Before this new way of making layouts was possible in Freeway, the
answer to the problem of text pushing across other things was to
design with a bit of expansion in mind. This is still a viable
approach. If you’re making templates for CMS-based sites (where
different amounts of content might be poured into a single layout)
then constructions that resize relative to each other is important.
But, for most static-content sites, allowing some breathing space
around objects will accommodate reasonable levels of text expansion.

So - the so-called box model construction is as relevant as ever, in
particular for database-driven sites. But making these in Freeway
means exploiting features not originally created for this. And the
result is that if you like ongoing ‘rethink’ freedom in your site
designs then the effort needed to make this kind of layout may be
more than it is worth.

k

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