Calling all Scripty Devs!

If you use the Scripty libraries in your Actions, please contact Joe Billings immediamente! We are revving the core libraries from 1.6 to 1.7 and 1.8.3 to 1.9.0, respectively. This all needs to roll out at the same time, so you need to be watching the skies for the ( f ) symbol, indicating that Commissioner Gordon has released the latest update to Freeway, and I recommend that you get your Actions ready to drop (even upload them to ActionsForge, but leave them set to Private) whenever that happy moment happens.

This should cut out the IE9 compatibility issues that may have cropped up in recent weeks/months.

Nota Bene:

If you do anything in your (browser-side) JavaScript code where you set a hash value using direct assignment, your code WILL break. You need to read up on the Hash#set and Hash#get functions at this page: Prototype v1.7.3 API documentation | Hash

Whereas before, foo['bar'] = baz; would result in foo: {bar: baz}, now I’m not sure what you will get unless you use foo.set(bar.baz);.

Walter


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So that will be in the next iteration of Freeway 5.6.x

However, we also have to think of users who have not yet upgraded to 5.5, and will be using older versions of the Scripty Actions. Updating the Actions in a blanket way like this will mean that they will be potentially loading two Scripty libraries - those supplied in the base Softpress Actions from whatever version of Freeway they are using, and one from the revised Actions that you are asking us to update to “keep up”. This, as we have seen from reports here, can cause breakage in JavaScript on web pages.

This means that any bug-fix and/or functionality updates to those Actions with Scripty code in will have to be only for 5.6.x and onwards, which is, in my opinion, not fair on those who have paid for a version of the Action and expect some kind of maintenance but have yet to move to 5.5 and beyond. Are we expected to keep two versions of each Action in development - one for each variant of the Scripty libraries?

I think we need more information from Softpress on how to approach this problem before diving. I do not want to leave my pre 5.6 users behind. Will Softpress be releasing the core Actions for Freeway 4 and 5 which include the new Scripty libraries?


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Hi Paul,

I’ll add some code to the wiki that explains how to do this.

Joe

On 7 Dec 2011, at 09:20, Paul wrote:

So that will be in the next iteration of Freeway 5.6.x

However, we also have to think of users who have not yet upgraded to 5.5, and will be using older versions of the Scripty Actions. Updating the Actions in a blanket way like this will mean that they will be potentially loading two Scripty libraries - those supplied in the base Softpress Actions from whatever version of Freeway they are using, and one from the revised Actions that you are asking us to update to “keep up”. This, as we have seen from reports here, can cause breakage in JavaScript on web pages.

This means that any bug-fix and/or functionality updates to those Actions with Scripty code in will have to be only for 5.6.x and onwards, which is, in my opinion, not fair on those who have paid for a version of the Action and expect some kind of maintenance but have yet to move to 5.5 and beyond. Are we expected to keep two versions of each Action in development - one for each variant of the Scripty libraries?

I think we need more information from Softpress on how to approach this problem before diving. I do not want to leave my pre 5.6 users behind. Will Softpress be releasing the core Actions for Freeway 4 and 5 which include the new Scripty libraries?


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Oh dear, this all sounds very confusing.

When each paid-for upgrade comes along Freeway users can make an informed decision whether or not the upgrade is of benefit to them. Whilst the paid-for Freeway 5.5 upgrade may have been mis-numbered at least this was another clear cut-off point (shouldn’t the current version 5.6.1 actually have been called 5.5.61?).

However now, mid-cycle, another arbitrary cut-off point has been declared after which it appears some more legacy actions (for which there are no alternatives) may no longer function. That means those who bought in to version 5.5 may no longer be able to use it past the current version. Perhaps Softpress should recognise this by fixing the legacy actions they have broken for which no current alternatives exist or creating suitable replacements themselves? It also means all websites created with the next version (will it be 5.7 or 5.5.70?) will have to undergo full testing in a range of browsers across platforms once again to confirm they still work properly. This is certainly not a quick task and one usually reserved for when paid-for upgrades happen.

In the future, couldn’t such fundamental code changes be left to the recognised upgrade points?

All the best

Gordon


On 7 Dec 2011, at 9:20am, Paul wrote:

So that will be in the next iteration of Freeway 5.6.x

However, we also have to think of users who have not yet upgraded to 5.5, and will be using older versions of the Scripty Actions. Updating the Actions in a blanket way like this will mean that they will be potentially loading two Scripty libraries - those supplied in the base Softpress Actions from whatever version of Freeway they are using, and one from the revised Actions that you are asking us to update to “keep up”. This, as we have seen from reports here, can cause breakage in JavaScript on web pages.

This means that any bug-fix and/or functionality updates to those Actions with Scripty code in will have to be only for 5.6.x and onwards, which is, in my opinion, not fair on those who have paid for a version of the Action and expect some kind of maintenance but have yet to move to 5.5 and beyond. Are we expected to keep two versions of each Action in development - one for each variant of the Scripty libraries?

I think we need more information from Softpress on how to approach this problem before diving. I do not want to leave my pre 5.6 users behind. Will Softpress be releasing the core Actions for Freeway 4 and 5 which include the new Scripty libraries?


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My thoughts are that including libraries should be handled directly by Freeway as part of core functionality. Failing that, an über Action which does the job - with Actions relying on such libraries setting a page variable declaring which libraries are to be included.

The pitfalls are that silent upgrades to the libraries used may break Actions. The obvious benefit is that instead of an Action writer mashing through each and every Action that uses the libraries to update the code so that the correct libraries are called. I have noted in the past that this method is not without its problems, and has been noted here now the “forking” of the versions at 5.6.whatever will no doubt require more involved coding and testing.

I am in half a mind to give up on using Scriptaculous until this mess has been made much more tidier, comfortably backwards compatible. Right now, it looks like a real dog’s dinner of a solution.


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I wish it were that easy. Unfortunately, Microsoft has so far not agreed to keep their browser versions in synch with Freeway’s, neither have they agreed to rigorously support the world-wide standards for how a JavaScript interpreter should function. This means that there’s an external driver to this seemingly-arbitrary cutoff.

I know that technically it is possible for Softpress to release a stand-alone Action pack which would override the built-in Actions that rely on Scriptaculous and Prototype. However, there is a significant business cost to doing so, because it introduces a whole new round of testing and potential for regressions on a product which is in the maintenance end of its life-cycle. If it’s a matter of doing one or another, and for a focused and nimble organization like Softpress (note I didn’t say small) choices like this are often binary – either-or, not yes-and – then I for one would rather see Freeway 6 than patches to 5 and 5.5.

The issue with these particular Actions is that they all rely on the same base libraries, but you can’t include those libraries more than once in the same page, and you have to include them in a specific order. So they all have a set of “semaphore” code to tell each other which libraries they need, because only the last Action on the page can add these libraries (to avoid duplication).

If one Action is bundled with the older libraries, and another the newer, then you have a bit of Russian Roulette as to which one will actually do the publishing and which set of libraries you will get in the finished page. Old code + new libraries, or vice-versa, the result is still the same: either inconsistent operation or a frank error that shuts down all other scripts on the same page, depending on the browser and the error.

Walter

On Dec 8, 2011, at 5:44 AM, Gordon Low wrote:

In the future, couldn’t such fundamental code changes be left to the recognised upgrade points?


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choices like this are often binary – either-or, not yes-and – then I for one would rather see Freeway 6 than patches to 5 and 5.5.

I think that the choice should be Yes. My reasoning stands: there are people out there who will be using versions of Freeway prior to 5.6.whatever (whatever being the version where the new Scripty libraries are dropped into Actions). Right now, I’m looking at one of twee choices:

1 - Abandon all but the 5.6.whatever users in order5 to keep the Scripty libraries up to date. Just bought my Action, but running Freeway 5.0? Tough. No more updates for you.

2 - Fork each Action, so that any updates are maintained on both. This means two sets of Actions, two versions of Freeway, etc. etc…

3 - Start bodging in code to insert variants of each library depending on what version of Freeway is running (I am assuming this is what Joe will be posting to the Wiki).

None of the above are ideal. The best option would be for any Scripty Action to flag the need for a library, and for Freeway or an all-seeing Library Action to do the job. That is surely simpler and easier for all in the long run.


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Hi Guys,

I’ve updated the wiki so you can prepare your Prototype and Scriptaculous Actions for the next release. I’ve also added a link to all the JavaScript files that have been used in the past allowing for people to use older versions of Freeway.

I understand your frustrations, Paul. Providing a mechanism for managing all this transparently is something we’re still working on.

Cheers,
Joe


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Which wiki would that be? The on one ActionsForge seems to have content from 2010 but nothing newer.


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http://actionsforge.com/wikis/view/190-attaching-the-libraries-and-custom-code

Joe

On 8 Dec 2011, at 18:37, Paul wrote:

Which wiki would that be? The on one ActionsForge seems to have content from 2010 but nothing newer.


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And 5.6.2 is now available. If you hadn’t already released your Actions with the new script, you should do so now.

Joe

On 8 Dec 2011, at 19:06, Joe Billings wrote:

http://actionsforge.com/wikis/view/190-attaching-the-libraries-and-custom-code

Joe

On 8 Dec 2011, at 18:37, Paul wrote:

Which wiki would that be? The on one ActionsForge seems to have content from 2010 but nothing newer.


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