Cost of viewing site on mobile device

Freeway
1

Hi, not a lot of traffic on here this morning so I’ll take advantage of a quiet spell and post something:

I think I realise that this site’s home page is quite big:

http://www.crowninnhighfield.co.uk/

…all those images and stuff but out of interest I thought I’d have a look at it on my mobile, I’m with virgin and went to my account on their site to see how much my surfing had cost and it was £5.00 (they charge 0.5p / Kb) for a few minutes (I didn’t even download the whole page 'cause it seemed to be taking forever) … I don’t need this site to be particularly configured for the mobile phone user but anyone that chose to visit it would be shocked at the size, I think.

I know (sort of) that the size of a site is important but, am I wrong, if it loads pretty quickly (and I’ve checked it on a range of macs and pcs) is that good enough ?

Sorry, I’m beginning to ramble.

Regards Roger

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2

Sometime around 21/8/08 (at 07:04 -0400) Roger Burton said:

I think I realise that this site’s home page is quite big:

http://www.crowninnhighfield.co.uk/

Yep. That’s not at all mobile-friendly.

I’m with virgin and went to my account on their
site to see how much my surfing had cost and it
was £5.00 (they charge 0.5p / Kb) for a few
minutes

Yep. If you don’t have a data plan of some sort
then avoid doing this at all costs. The iPhone
contract (with O2 in the UK, AT&T in the US,
etc.) includes ‘unlimited’ data traffic for all
monthly calling plans. The concept of unlimited
when it comes to this sort of thing is never
quite the same as the dictionary definition, but
you would have to work very hard to stretch
this; as much as a few gigabytes per month is
fine!

if it loads pretty quickly (and I’ve checked it
on a range of macs and pcs) is that good enough ?

Not at all. You should consider issues such as
navigation that works well in mobile browsers,
arrangement of content to sit well in smaller
displays, and many other things.

Apple’s ‘Mobile Safari’, like the iPhone itself,
has set out the general future direction for
serious mobile phone/comms devices. Previous
generation mobile browsers (which are still the
current ‘state of the art’ on many devices) are -
well, “pants” would be a polite word for it.
Utter crap is slightly more accurate, if also
more blunt.

k

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3

On 21 Aug 2008, at 12:04, Roger Burton wrote:

I think I realise that this site’s home page is quite big:

I notice you have quite a few PNGs on there rather than JPEGs. I
daresay this is so as to use the transparency feature of PNG, but
they’re awful big in comparison to JPEGs … some of the pictures on the
‘Food’ page are over 80Kb when they should be more like 15-20Kb as
JPEGs.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com

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4

Thanks Keith - I appreciate all you said but is there a danger of compromising the ‘experience’ of the majority of visitors (ie those on a mac or pc at their home or office) for the sake of a few using there mobile ? … isn’t life difficult ! … and Paul, thank you but if I make them jpgs I lose the drop shadow which, I think, makes them look really good ! and again you say “…should be 15-20Kb…” is that because the page loads slowly or are there more important reasons for keeping them small - I have viewed this site on a really cheap old PC at a friend’s house and it was fine, I wouldn’t imagine there are many people viewing on anything much worse / slower / older … or am I fooloing myself. BTW I’m not questioning your comments chaps, just trying to get my head around how to build a good site. Thanks, as ever, for taking the time to help out. Roger

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5

is there a danger of compromising the ‘experience’ of the majority
of visitors (ie those on a mac or pc at their home or office) for
the sake of a few using there mobile ?

A very good question. There are actually more mobile web users than
you probably think. Here’s a quick explanation in the form of a
paragraph I wrote when reviewing Mobile Web Design, a book by Cameron
Moll that came out 11 months ago:

“Mobile Web Design is available as a
downloadable PDF or as a print-on-demand
book - itself an example of how excellent
books don’t always come from traditional
publishers. In this, Moll first tackles
the misconceptions about what web pages
for mobile devices should be, with
sections such as ‘Avoiding PC
Nearsightedness’ and ‘Context is King’.
Bold statements such as ‘contextual user
tasks, not the existing website,
determine the content, architecture,
and user experience of the mobilized
site’ are underpinned by statistics
that show the percentage of mobile web
users vs regular computer web users
(already a fifth 12 months ago), the
number of mobiles vs computers in use
worldwide 2.7 billion compared to 850
million), and more. Attention-grabbing
facts indeed.”

Although the content is already somewhat out of date (not by a lot,
and not at all in many areas, but this is a fast-moving field) I
recommend this to anyone that’s interested in the subject of
designing web pages and web sites for mobile devices. I bought two
copies when the print edition became available, and I already had the
PDF.
http://www.mobilewebbook.com

This is also a very worthwhile read:
http://www.softpress.com/products/iphone.php

k

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6

I agree it’s a good investment. Even if you don’t want or intend to design for mobile devices right now it’s worthwhile and interesting reading (as much as such things are).

Todd

On Aug 21, 2008, at 9:08 AM, Keith Martin wrote:

Although the content is already somewhat out of date (not by a lot,

and not at all in many areas, but this is a fast-moving field) I

recommend this to anyone that’s interested in the subject of

designing web pages and web sites for mobile devices.

7

Hi Roger,

I would recommend switching from Target Image to Target Show/Hide
Layer. A quick look at the network timeline in the (very very handy)
Develop menu in Safari (if you haven’t already done so, enable it in
your preferences) shows that each time an image is shown in the
slideshow another 2 or 3MB get added to the total number of resources.
Using the Layer version of the Action will prevent that from happening.

I hope this helps.

Joe

On 21 Aug 2008, at 15:08, Keith Martin wrote:

is there a danger of compromising the ‘experience’ of the majority
of visitors (ie those on a mac or pc at their home or office) for
the sake of a few using there mobile ?

A very good question. There are actually more mobile web users than
you probably think. Here’s a quick explanation in the form of a
paragraph I wrote when reviewing Mobile Web Design, a book by Cameron
Moll that came out 11 months ago:

“Mobile Web Design is available as a
downloadable PDF or as a print-on-demand
book - itself an example of how excellent
books don’t always come from traditional
publishers. In this, Moll first tackles
the misconceptions about what web pages
for mobile devices should be, with
sections such as ‘Avoiding PC
Nearsightedness’ and ‘Context is King’.
Bold statements such as ‘contextual user
tasks, not the existing website,
determine the content, architecture,
and user experience of the mobilized
site’ are underpinned by statistics
that show the percentage of mobile web
users vs regular computer web users
(already a fifth 12 months ago), the
number of mobiles vs computers in use
worldwide 2.7 billion compared to 850
million), and more. Attention-grabbing
facts indeed.”

Although the content is already somewhat out of date (not by a lot,
and not at all in many areas, but this is a fast-moving field) I
recommend this to anyone that’s interested in the subject of
designing web pages and web sites for mobile devices. I bought two
copies when the print edition became available, and I already had the
PDF.
http://www.mobilewebbook.com

This is also a very worthwhile read:
http://www.softpress.com/products/iphone.php

k

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8

PHP can be used to detect a mobile device be it the iPhone or one of the others. Desktop visitors would get the normal site and the mobile users would be redirected to an optimized mobile version which would happen instantly so no one would be the wiser and everyone would/should get the best possible experience within the limitations of the respective device. Of course if you can design the main site to render nicely across all devices so much the better otherwise this is probably the best route if you’re so inclined.

For example:

iPhone detection <http://pastie.org/257296>
Mobile detection <http://pastie.org/257293>

Todd

On Aug 21, 2008, at 7:18 AM, Roger Burton wrote:

I appreciate all you said but is there a danger of compromising the ‘experience’ of the majority of visitors (ie those on a mac or pc at their home or office) for the sake of a few using there mobile ?

9

Thanks Keith I’ll check out those two books and Joe, that developer gizmo looks ‘interesting’ I’ll have to try and work out what it does and how to use it ! I have changed to the layer version of the action and that works (though I had to change all of the jpgs to pngs - don’t quite know why their transparency when they were jpgs worked) ! and Todd PHP - what is that and how can I learn more about it 'cause that seems to make sense … mobile detection, where would i put that code ? sooooo much to learn sooooo little time. Thanks to you all for your excellent advice and patience. Roger

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10

PHP is a server-side scripting language that was (as far as I know) originally designed to create dynamic web pages but the scope of what’s possible with PHP is enormous and if you want to learn more then a good start is to get - as Walter likes to say - a Big Book™ such as PHP and MySQL Web Development (4th Edition) by Laura Thomson and Luke Welling (the new edition release was pushed back to Oct.). Also Keith Martin has a PHP primer at <http://www.thehelpful.com/php/index.php> that you may want to read before jumping headlong into the deep end.

As for general iPhone development there’s this on the Apple site <http://developer.apple.com/iphone/>.

Todd

On Aug 22, 2008, at 2:21 AM, Roger Burton wrote:

Todd PHP - what is that and how can I learn more about it 'cause that seems to make sense … mobile detection

11

Sometime around 22/8/08 (at 08:32 -0500) Todd said:

Also Keith Martin has a PHP primer at
PHP and MySQL Explained: lessons, script samples and book recommendations that you may want to read
before jumping headlong into the deep end.

Yep - think of it as a ladder into the shallower end of the PHP pool,
something to get you started without too much risk of drowning!

:slight_smile:

k

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12

On 21 Aug 2008, at 17:39, Todd wrote:

PHP can be used to detect a mobile device be it the iPhone or one
of the others. Desktop visitors would get the normal site and the
mobile users would be redirected to an optimized mobile version w…

And if one wants to avoid PHP (and stick to FRWay) is there not a way
to detect the browser with an @extra CSS-set-up?

OKN

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13

It’s not a FW or PHP situation, they’re integrated. Essentially it’s no different than calling in remote files using javascript to perform a function. Yes, you can use separate stylesheets for a mobile site, or redirect to a sub-domain or use a dedicated .mobi domain or add a folder in your main site that contains a completely separate mobile version. But something needs to happen before any of this (with the exception of a dedicated .mobi domain) that determines - based on the user-agent - what to serve up and where to send you before displaying anything such as another site or a different stylesheet etc. Perhaps it could be done with javascript, I don’t know, but php is so much better for stuff like this.

Todd

On Aug 22, 2008, at 2:43 PM, Omar KN wrote:

And if one wants to avoid PHP (and stick to FRWay) is there not a way

to detect the browser with an @extra CSS-set-up?

14

Dear all the freeway forum, on the subject iPhone site, apart from all your suggestions, in an Italian magazine about Mac (APPLICANDO like Macworld etc.) in August 2008 there is an interesting article. I have only the Italian version on paper not avaliable on line, so I tried for you to translate in English the main parts of it at the address:

http://www.fmstorage.eu/freeway/Resources/iPhone%20site.pdf

(I think no problem about copyright as you can’t buy the magazine in USA or Australia while Italian Freeway users have to buy it for reading the complete article more interesting). This, I hope, will contribute to the discussion with my thanks to this usefull forum (I remeber the kind answers to me from Michael, Tokyo, Ashley, Big Erns etc etc.)
Note that I only report part of the original article without understanding it.
My comments in a second post

fernando

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15

I divided my mail in two posts so not to be too long. I’d like to comment the post above:

1- I’m not able to write a single string in HTML or other web language, so I hope in the future Softpress or this forum will develope actions to be put in simple way with a click of mouse for helping freeway users as me, without writing HTML or other. I’m not a professional user so I like freeway simplicity in final use with professional work in its background;

2- I think the Italian article above on iPhone site is good for a smartphone site too (with screen 320 x 920 like iPhone) but iPhone is potentially quite different.
Safari on iPhone is able to read normal site, so I prefer the suggestion on Softpress site to build a single site to be read either on large screen or iPhone as well. Softpress advise to avoid at the moment roll over, mouse over, print action, download action, write in columns 320 pixel wide and photo 320 pixel as well to help iPhone user to read the same big site simplified. This suggestions simply help to put attention to the user device, but in a single web site.

The Italian article, instead, suggest to write a second site optimized for iPhone as wi fi connection is up to now slower than professional broad band, the iPhone device is less powered than a desktop and maybe the users are up to now not used to read with up-down, left-right, big-small two fingers scroll.
So, waiting faster on air connections, iPhone more powered and iPhone safari exactly like on desktop, the Italian article suggest to build a second site with rules like for smartphones. So I think but I’m not expert.

3- I’m not in hurry to learn to build a iPhone site, as in Italy is a little expensive up to now and I think it will take a long time till all my patients will use it.

fernando

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16

Sometime around 24/8/08 (at 14:49 -0400) fernando.maxia said:

(I think no problem about copyright as you can’t buy the magazine in
USA or Australia while Italian Freeway users have to buy it for
reading the complete article more interesting).

Fernando - I think I’d better point out here and now that that an
inability to buy something somewhere doesn’t give you the right to
reproduce it. Sorry!

But thanks for doing this all the same; it is a brief but still
interesting article. :slight_smile:

Although I too think that the future lies in sites that work across
multiple devices, and it is usually quite possible to achieve this
today. Especially with the latest Freeway.

k

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17

Roger this is a good thread-it will be an increasingly important consideration for web designers.

Fernando, I remember your experiments with Freeway design for mobile phones last year. Can you post that link again?

Thanks,
Jim

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18

Lots of great comments and contributions here thanks everyone and Jim S - yes I’ve been digging around in other areas and Keith is so right, it’s important now and it’s getting more so. This is a good one to watch … thanks to all let’s keep it going, I seem to learn something new every day … Roger

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19

Thanks Kate, I was sure to do nothing bad as the original article is more complete, and my (bad) translation is only the main parts, so different from the original, but now i Know better how important is the copyright in web working (not only) as all you maybe pay great attention. Thanks

For Jim: remember I’m not expert, I’m a doctor who discovered freeway for building own simple site for patients, in simple way without knowing web language. Freeway is very usefull for people like me. I use freeway templates as I’m not able to design too. I have admiration for your site design and often I look them to take insipiration, and I am every day more sure that a professional web designer is inimitable. When, some day in the future, I’ll go to have a serious site I’ll pay a professional web designer. At the moment, not many public (for governement, not private) doctors in Italy have a web site, and before I’ll ask someone I’ll have to know what i want. Freeway (and freeway forum) is a good practice to know how difficult is a serious work.
After that, the link you asked is

http://www.fmstorage.eu/freeway/indexa.html

I was looking for simple rules for smartphone sites to apply with Freeway. Look for other interesting post on this forum, where expecially Michael suggested XHML instead HTML and other good answers as Camerol site etc. (look in the forum for: iPhone site, smartphone site etc.)

I’m not in hurry to build an iPhone site, but it is a subject of great interest in Italy too and I think by old time it will be an important way to comunicate urgent rescuing information to people.

Only to understand my interest and why (and how) I’m using freeway look my sites up to now not complete (from almost 3 years, I’m not in hurry :slight_smile: are

http://www.fernandomaxia.it/ the main site for my (paediatric) patients

My Great Site a site for medical informations to teenagers

Home Page a site with medical video in the web

http://www.fmstorage.eu/blog/ a site like a blog to infom people about epidemic disease at the moment in the two village I work

This last blog is not freeway but from
http://www.lifli.com/iBlog/index.html

Thank to all the forum, I look you not every day but often in a month (sorry I understand English hardly) i agree with Roger, it is very usefull

fernando

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20

Hello,
I was wondering if the pastie in this thread from 2008 ( http://pastie.org/257293 ) had been improved on, as I get all sorts of results from different devices.

Also, I have switch from the legacy servers to the cPanel (just when the trees began to become distinguished from the forest) servers at a host called MacHighway, and they have the following htaccess thing - any comment from those of you that understant the code? :

The quickest way to make your site mobile friendly.

Create a mobile version of your site.

  1. Login to the root directory of your site (typically the public_html directory) and edit or create the .htaccess file.

NOTE: You will need a standalone FTP application, like Transmit, that allows you to view invisible files to view the .htaccess file.
2. Paste the following code into your .htaccess file, replacing http://YourDomainGoesHere with the full URL of your site. (example http://www.mydomain.com)

{number symbol here w/out brackets,no space}redirect mobile browsers
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_USER_AGENT} ^.iPhone.$
RewriteRule ^(.)$ http://www.google.com/gwt/x?u=http://YourDomainGoesHere&btnGo=Go&source=wax&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 [R=301]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_USER_AGENT} ^.BlackBerry.$
RewriteRule ^(.)$ http://www.google.com/gwt/x?u=http://YourDomainGoesHere&btnGo=Go&source=wax&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 [R=301]
RewriteCond %{HTTP_USER_AGENT} ^.Palm.$
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://www.google.com/gwt/x?u=http://YourDomainGoesHere&btnGo=Go&source=wax&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 [R=301]

  1. Save the .htaccess file and upload it to the root folder of your site.

Me again. Looks like it’s good for iPhones and Blackberry only…?

Thanks

Frank

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