Hey All,
Can I build a site for someone without FW somehow?
Or do they have to have the program even if they aren’t doing any updates? I am on a Mac, he on a PC.
Thanks,
Al
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… the keyword you’re talking about is CMS (Content-Management System (or free of my mind Customer Made Solutions)).
Have a quick search this forum and you will have plenty of lists.
Thomas
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In reading my original post it reads like I don’t have FW but I do.
Ok, will search. Sound like it is possible but a pain.
Thanks,
Al
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Pain? Why?
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It really depends on what your customer expects to be able to do with
the site. Freeway generates regular, standards-compliant HTML, and
publishes the pages into static HTML files which can be uploaded
(either through Freeway or a dedicated FTP/SFTP application) to any
Web server where they will Just Work™.
If your customer doesn’t want anything further from you, they have
their site files on the server in a format that any HTML editor (or
even just Windows Notepad) will be able to read, edit, etc.
If your customer wants to update their site from time to time, they
should balance the frequency of these updates and their comfort with
programming in HTML (as well as the risk of making their site look bad
or stop working altogether) against the cost of either asking you to
make these changes as needed (either for a monthly retainer or on a
pay-as-you-go scheme) or the costs of having you set up a CMS and
allowing them to make those updates on an ongoing basis in a
relatively “safe” environment.
If your customer takes over updates of the site using any HTML-based
system, realize that when he or she comes back to you later for
changes, you will need to build in the time required to merge those
changes back into your Freeway document. Skipping this step will
overwrite the new content with whatever Freeway “believes” the current
state of the site to be. Failing to capture this cost in the process
will make you bitter and angry, so make sure it’s clear to the client
that they are getting a “Georgia Guarantee[1]” with their site.
Walter
On Dec 2, 2010, at 9:55 AM, Al wrote:
In reading my original post it reads like I don’t have FW but I do.
Ok, will search. Sound like it is possible but a pain.
Thanks,
Al
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Al, I take it you are new to web site design and from your original post I think you may be confused about how Freeway works. In simple terms, Freeway is an application in which you design a website in Freeway’s own ‘language’. When you hit ‘Publish’, in the Menu, Freeway does the clever stuff of converting the file you have produced n to one or another flavour of HTML, the language of the web. This resides in the Site Folder and is what is uploaded (by Freeway) to the server on which the website is hosted.
Thus the actual web site sits on a separate server accessible by any computer, Mac or PC. Your friend only has to tell you where the website is to be hosted, with the appropriate FTP address, account name and password for you to upload the site you have designed. Those details are what you type into the upload window.
If your friend wants upload the site himself, you can send him a copy of the site folder, but this is not usual nor particularly recommended, and this may be opened in a browser on his PC by double clicking the file named index.html, for checking the output.
You will not be able to change anything on the PC, however, unless you have incorporated a Content Management System (CMS) as noted by Thomas. This uses a separate application that you upload to the host server and allows content change using a standard Internet browser, such as Safari on your Mac or Internet Explorer on a PC.
HTH Colin
On 2 Dec 2010, at 14:55, Al wrote:
In reading my original post it reads like I don’t have FW but I do.
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Well - Al,
… as Walter said:
it’s very easy: keep both pieces or waste both. Or before to waste both, don’t break them into two pieces 
The pain of CMS?
The one is making the “framework”, the other is filling the content (or both things covered by one).
It needs a bit of experience to achieve a solid basic work. One keyword is “Inline content” for the unexpected heights of the content, the other is to choose the matching CMS (WebYep, MojoMotor, Perch, MiniCMS …).
I did projects that way (… even customer is not updating any content). Especially in my own website, it’s much quicker to update content in Browser than always rushing into FW-file.
So I really was sure to give you the correct advice to cover both pieces:
Basic Freewayfile on the one hand, solid filled content stored on customers account on the other - both independent to update:
Break into two pieces and decide afterwards the one you keep and the other you don’t waste.
That was the idea behind, isn’t it?
Thomas
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Wow. Yous guys answered every question I had. Awesome.
I know FW well but not HTML and def not CMS.
I am going to ask the client/friend if he wants to update the site from time to time or is it a one shot design and if he wants me to do the updates.
The questions I was going to ask were:
Can he upload the files/site folder etc… on his computer even though it is done in FW. Sounds like yes or I can upload to his FTP addr. which is probably what will happen.
I am not quite sure Thomas of your 2 pieces analogy but I think I will create all the content with a video and slide show as well.
I will check with person and post back his needs.
Thanks a bunch,
Al
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The whole point of the joke was to say “You break it, you bought it”
in a longer and more humorous way. You broke it in half, now you get
to keep both of the (broken, useless) pieces. In this context, once
you (as client) take delivery of the site, if you do anything with it
beyond uploading it to your Web root on your server, that’s on you.
Decide to change a bunch of filenames and now none of the links work,
that’s your choice and your responsibility.
I like where you’re going with this, though, Thomas – the idea I’m
getting from you is similar to the software architecture mantra of
“separating content from presentation”. Ordinary Freeway sites don’t
do this at all; or do so in a very weak manner through Master pages.
Freeway + a CMS does an excellent job of this, which is why for large
sites, or client-changed sites, they’re the right way to go.
The client wants to change the words, so they go into the CMS and
update the new copy. It’s a little bit more work to set up at the
beginning, but it pushes the responsibility for changes on to the
client, while at the same time keeping the client out of trouble for
breaking the layout or the structure of the site.
The client wants to change the look and feel, so they come back to the
designer, who modifies the template pages that the CMS uses. All of a
sudden, every page in the site takes on the new appearance with no re-
work needed on existing pages.
Walter
On Dec 2, 2010, at 11:18 AM, Thomas Kimmich wrote:
… as Walter said:
it’s very easy: keep both pieces or waste both. Or before to waste
both, don’t break them into two pieces
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Costs aside, it is always much easier if you can control the site design and content in one place. Uploading direct from Freeway ensures that files are kept tidy on the server (i.e. properly managed) and avoids the problems of trying to retain or overwriting clients additions id there is a major design ‘renewal’.
Colin
On 2 Dec 2010, at 17:55, Al wrote:
I am going to ask the client/friend if he wants to update the site from time to time or is it a one shot design and if he wants me to do the updates.
The questions I was going to ask were:
Can he upload the files/site folder etc… on his computer even though it is done in FW. Sounds like yes or I can upload to his FTP addr. which is probably what will happen.
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do they have to have the program even if they aren’t doing any updates?
Simple answer - no!
David
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