Fin

Freeway
186

I just finished watching Thomas’ video, and thank you, Thomas, for making that. Pinegrow may not help you grow a forest in your yard, but it seems to be the “HTML importer” we have all wanted for YEARS in Freeway. That doesn’t necessarily make it a perfect choice for editing though, and I’ll need to look at the Trial more closely to assess its merits.

I should add to this discussion by saying that we need to take care with our “Freeway replacement.” This evening I discovered the Macaw app for the first time and noted how very intuitive it is AND it apparently creates very lean and beautiful code too. Then I looked closer and found the company is now closing its doors, having sold out to InVision.

Clearly, choosing a company that’s been around for a while and has a growing user base would likely be our safest bet. Not sure about the company behind Pinegrow, but RapidWeaver has been around for a long time and doesn’t appear to be headed into closure anytime soon. And I must admit that Joe Workman is really a working man with all the video tutorials he’s handcrafted to get users up and running. Blocs and Sparkle apps have their own unique WYSIWYG appeal. They just haven’t been around as long, so who knows how long they’ll stick around.

–James Wages

LINKS:

http://pinegrow.com

https://foundation.joeworkman.net

MACWORLD Review of Sparkle 1.2.3, with links to review of Blocs 1.3 (noting that both apps are at version 2.0 now):

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187

I’m kind of surprised Macaw was picked up by InVision, though they do seem to have their meaty paws in everything.
(They also won’t stop sending me emails either, even after contacting "customer service”. Pricks)

After the considerable hype Macaw really turned out to kind of a dud. I’m glad I never bought a license. I’m curious to see what InVision (pricks) does with it.

Todd
Office (Chicago): 312.212.3955
https://qreativ.space

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188

After the considerable hype Macaw really turned out to kind of a dud. I’m glad I never bought a license.

I was a Kickstarter backer of a very promising app that really failed to deliver and seems to have been repurposed for another end.

Disappointed to say the least!

D

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189

" Blocs and Sparkle apps have their own unique WYSIWYG appeal. They just haven’t been around as long, so who knows how long they’ll stick around."

That was my concern as well. When I saw that the Freeway youtube video on making a responsive site had 30K views, and Caleb’s backdraft had almost 5 (numbers which to me would have indicated a healthy business for SoftPress) it seemed futile to assume or expect anything about any of them. Maybe it was thirty people looking at that video one thousand times.

I went with Sparkle just because it serves me well. All I have are slide shows, video and audio files so simple was going to be fine. In the end I just picked what I liked and will hope for the best.

I kind of wanted to see their financials before diving in, however…

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190

JDW: thanks for the thoughtful response.

I too got used to FW for the box model which was responsive enough, at least for screen size, long before breakpoints. But Sparkle appears to do all of that intuitively in a desktop publishing way, with none of the myriad settings such as Fixed% width, Clear, Float. It even allows overlapping elements easily.

As for whether you can accomplish the same in Sparkle, see here:
http://sparklecafe.com

Also built-in are Google fonts, Analytics, Multiple Undo, Styles that don’t create erroneous Style1 &c., “Master” elements that appear on each page or section, and much more. The UI is even in one window which I always wanted out of FW—which works like any other native Mac app in split screen, and IMPORTANTLY supports File/Revert to previous versions.

I too was shocked and sad at the news. I’m grateful, in a way, for the how FW made me work at understanding the web (but never code!) and my first thought was I might have to give up designing new web site. But, like Ern, its demise has come as a blessing in disguise as I morph into a more user-friendly world. As someone once said: the operation was a success but the patient died.

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191

Thomas, I know in your video you expressed mild dislike for Sparkle, but the more I read, the more my right brain really likes those guys…

http://sparkle.cx/blog/html-and-css-are-holding-the-web-back.html

James Wages

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192

On 24 Jul 2016, 7:04 am, JDW wrote:

Thomas, I know in your video you expressed mild dislike for Sparkle …

Yep - indeed I did. And the promo video was only one of the reasons for.

… but the more I read, the more my right brain really likes those guys…

I’m not wasting a second in products, mocking and denying the “language” it is built on. Just for the sake of playing the Code Nanny for some “clients”?

Though I didn’t expect much anyway.

Cheers

Thomas

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193

Friends, I had a chance to evaluate Sparkle. You can read about that experience in the following new thread:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170179

Best,

James Wages

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194

me thinks it isn’t the last we didi hear from freeway or whatever name it will have in the future

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195

Re: Sparkle
I’ve checked it out and, while it may be a great solution for many, It doesn’t have anywhere near enough pro level features to be a viable alternative for me. My sites are intended to drive businesses having average unit sales of around $4,000.00 a pop. To be frank, however, once responsive became a key issue, I shifted my use of FW to creating a shell with menus, nested images within text elements, and a ton of HTML5 content created elsewhere, so I no longer need to stretch FW to the limit.
If someone needs a tool to put together a site without bells and whistles, Sparkle is a good solution.

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196

I think I might agree with this (or maybe I’m just clutching at straws!)

A line in Joe’s original post:

“…Who knows what comes next?”

Hmm…

On 25 Jul 2016, 6:15 pm, vloerengilde wrote:

me thinks it isn’t the last we didi hear from freeway or whatever name it will have in the future

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197

Trey, you may want to jump on over to our Sparkle thread and define what the “bells and whistles” are:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170179

Seriously, when I have time, I will be going through Freeway’s entire feature set for a comparison of what’s missing. I have a gentleman who’s been emailing me off list daily on that point. A lot of people in our Freeway community are seeking a Freeway alternative. RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation + Joe W.'s Help Videos looks great. I simply am scrutinizing Sparkle now because if it is a viable solution, the overall cost would be much, much cheaper.

–James Wages

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198

Hi James, yes I’ve been following it with interest. I had a quick look at the Sparkle website but haven’t tried it as yet

Thanks
Trev

On 26 Jul 2016, at 01:23, JDW email@hidden wrote:

Trey, you may want to jump on over to our Sparkle thread and define what the “bells and whistles” are:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170179

Seriously, when I have time, I will be going through Freeway’s entire feature set for a comparison of what’s missing. I have a gentleman who’s been emailing me off list daily on that point. A lot of people in our Freeway community are seeking a Freeway alternative. RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation + Joe W.'s Help Videos looks great. I simply am scrutinizing Sparkle now because if it is a viable solution, the overall cost would be much, much cheaper.

–James Wages

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199

In addition to earlier posts, as far if I’m being well informed: Pinegrow
and Macaw are both apps for making a template, protoptype or mockup. They
have no intention to build complete sites with it. The newer Macaw Scarlet
(the original Macaw is renamed Indigo) has more and better features for
building complete sites.
Andries

2016-07-26 10:06 GMT+02:00 Trevor Reaveley email@hidden:

Hi James, yes I’ve been following it with interest. I had a quick look at
the Sparkle website but haven’t tried it as yet

Thanks
Trev

On 26 Jul 2016, at 01:23, JDW email@hidden wrote:

Trey, you may want to jump on over to our Sparkle thread and define what
the “bells and whistles” are:

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170179

Seriously, when I have time, I will be going through Freeway’s entire
feature set for a comparison of what’s missing. I have a gentleman who’s
been emailing me off list daily on that point. A lot of people in our
Freeway community are seeking a Freeway alternative. RapidWeaver + Stacks

  • Foundation + Joe W.'s Help Videos looks great. I simply am scrutinizing
    Sparkle now because if it is a viable solution, the overall cost would be
    much, much cheaper.

–James Wages

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200

Andries, Macaw is dead. The developers sold out and the buyer doesn’t look like a company that’s interested in a web design app.

http://macaw.co/invision/

So for that category of web design app, you are left with Sparkle or Blocs. (Sorry, MUSE may be in the category too, but there’s no way I’ll ever recommend a subscription based app. Never.)

James Wages

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201

Hm, I think you’re correct James. Perhaps not dead for sure, but it is
fighting for its Macawlive on the Intensive Care… And if the right
surgeons are on duty…

I tried Blocs also this evening. I was surprised for its also ease of use
and rather pleasant responsiveness instead of being adaptive like FW or
Webydo.
Certainly not complet. No built-in FTP, poor color options, a little
difficult way to import PDF’s and I can’t change paragraph alignment at
smaller breakpoints without affecrting the others.

But the program is stable, feels solid and is frequently updated the last
couple off months I saw. They’re working hard to get it better every time.
And… they have tooltips ! :wink:

What is excactly the problem to not use a subscription based app? That it
will never be yours? Or you’re committed to Adobe for years?
But I’ve been sticked to Adobe for more then 20 years with Illustrator,
Photoshop… and to be honest: I’m very happy with their software.

And if it is really a big problem, (lets get this clear: I’m not promoting
it) there is also a ‘gray circuit’ to buy software a lot cheaper.

2016-07-27 2:20 GMT+02:00 JDW email@hidden:

Andries, Macaw is dead. The developers sold out and the buyer doesn’t
look like a company that’s interested in a web design app.

Macaw is joining InVision!

So for that category of web design app, you are left with Sparkle or
Blocs. (Sorry, MUSE may be in the category too, but there’s no way I’ll
ever recommend a subscription based app. Never.)

James Wages

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202

Andries, I am hoping Serif will improve Affinity Designer and Photo to such an extent no one ever needs Photoshop and Illustrator again. I own both apps and don’t use them right now, but I paid for them to support the developer’s efforts. With each passing version, they look more and more promising. I also contribute in their forums to suggest new features. Thankfully, they listen and implement! Suffice it to say, I hate subscription models. I want to buy an app and then decide if I want to upgrade to the next version or skip a version or 2. With a subscription model, you can’t do that. It’s all forced down your throat while your wallet slowly gets drained. No thanks.

I’ve not checked out the Blocs trial since I am still giving Sparkle a thorough exam. Maybe later. But thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. Glad to hear about the tooltips too! :slight_smile:

–James Wages

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203

Hey Andries,

My name is Norm, I’m the creator of Blocs. Just want to follow up on your coments on the limitations of Blocs.

Blocs has 2 levels of controls, the basics in the sidebar and the more complex custom classes. The options in the sidebar let you get all your basic styling in place along with adding animations and tooltips. At the top of the sidebar is a section labelled custom classes, typing into this field and hitting return adds a class to an object and a tag to the classes field, clicking this tag in the classes field opens up the far more advanced class options that let you control pretty much anything.

Opening and editing these classes at the different breakpoints lets you create a truly unique experience on each breakpoint. The colour settings here support opacity and you can align type based on breakpoint too.

You can read all about custom classes and styling your site per breakpoint here: http://help.blocsapp.com/custom-classes/

Enjoy exploring Blocs.

Norm

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204

James, a word in defence of the Adobe subscription model if I may:

You are obviously not a fan, which is well documented on here - more or less in every one of your posts :wink:

However, as a professional business it REALLY helps cashflow. Affinity photo, although a great piece of software, is nowhere close to being able to offer the same facilities as the Photoshop/Lightroom combination and in my opinion it will be a long time before it can.

The adobe bundle, at £8.70 a month saves me investing (an awful lot of) cash upfront. Given that the best price for both, before cc, was about £700… well you do the maths! Some of the updates you say are “forced down your throat” have saved me an enormous amount of time (therefore money too) so, for me, it is excellent.

There is not a single day goes by when I don’t use Photoshop, Lightroom and Illustrator for MOST of my working day. I do have Affinity Designer and I agree it is a superb piece of software given the price however, it simply does not have some of the features of Illustrator that I use every time I open the software.

In case you are wondering, I do not work for, nor am I associated with, Adobe in any way but I just wanted to point out that your assumption that I would never need (or want) to use Photoshop and Illustrator again is wide of the mark.

I would not normally post a reply like this but your insistance on mentioning it almost every time you post prompted me to perhaps suggest that there is an alternative view to yours and your apparent assumption that we ALL feel the same as you ("I am hoping Serif will improve Affinity Designer and Photo to such an extent no one ever needs Photoshop and Illustrator again) is simply wrong and I wish that you would stop assuming that everyone feels the same.

In my eyes, It gives all the other things you say less credibility.

Best wishes

Mark

On 27 Jul 2016, 3:03 am, JDW wrote:

Andries, I am hoping Serif will improve Affinity Designer and Photo to such an extent no one ever needs Photoshop and Illustrator again. I own both apps and don’t use them right now, but I paid for them to support the developer’s efforts. With each passing version, they look more and more promising. I also contribute in their forums to suggest new features. Thankfully, they listen and implement! Suffice it to say, I hate subscription models. I want to buy an app and then decide if I want to upgrade to the next version or skip a version or 2. With a subscription model, you can’t do that. It’s all forced down your throat while your wallet slowly gets drained. No thanks.

I’ve not checked out the Blocs trial since I am still giving Sparkle a thorough exam. Maybe later. But thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. Glad to hear about the tooltips too! :slight_smile:

–James Wages

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205

Norm,

I just created a new thread dedicated to Blocs. And if you don’t mind, I have a question for you there. Better we discuss Blocs there than further clog this Fin thread.

https://freewaytalk.softpress.com/thread/view/170255

Mark,

The subscription model is great for people who always want to pay for the latest version, I agree. But here in Japan, there are a lot of companies still using CS4 and earlier. Sometimes you want to send them a CS6 file but they ask you to down-save it! And not many are using CC simply because people here really hate subscriptions. Companies here really try to save pennies where possible, forcing employees to use the same software until they absolutely positively have to upgrade. So even though the one-time cost is big for them, their “cash flow” is actually better with a non-subscription model insofar as a lot less cash flows out of their hands if they don’t commonly upgrade but once every blue moon.

And while I agree the Affinity apps won’t be an Adobe replacement for a while (consider well how long Photoshop and Illustrator have been available – since the 80’s!), Serif has a lot of work to do. However, if you look at the feature set now, they have a lot of major features found in the Adobe apps. So I don’t think it will take Serif 20 years to match Adobe. Probably 5 years hence Serif will have caught up, offering 90% of the major features Adobe users expect. And to ensure that happens I shall remain vigilant in their forums making suggestions. You should too. For you never know when you will want to exit that subscription model. And when you do exit an Adobe subscription, all you’ll have remaining is a file viewer.

Best,

James Wages

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