Footer - still no joy

Still absolutely none the wiser as how to add a footer that moves up and down according to the length of a page.

This should be a basic thing to do should it not? Is it not part of almost every decent pages’ navigation?

Why is it so difficult? I have spent literally hours poking around trying to see how this could be done and only seeing others coming up with the same moan.

Still feeling around in the dark.

All I want is something really really simple. I want to put a footer on a master page that will stick under the text across the bottom of the whole page. My text is variable length from page to page. But, why am I having such monumental difficulty with this?

Also, can we possibly have some

a) templates
b) instructional videos
c) updated manual (FW4 one is really well written but kinda out of date now, no?)

… help!


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I second this post…wanting to learn more about footers. Can anyone help us. Thanks


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Agreed, I can do them fine as in Heather’s instructions, but when I
try it via a layered option (divs within divs etc) I just can’t get
it to work. A good, definitive explanation would be a great help.
It’s not as if I haven’t tried…

On 25 Mar 2008, at 07:08, Waylen wrote:

I second this post…wanting to learn more about footers. Can
anyone help us. Thanks


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Sometime around 24/3/08 (at 11:16 -0400) John-Paul Kernot said:

Still absolutely none the wiser as how to add a footer that moves up
and down according to the length of a page.

This should be a basic thing to do should it not? Is it not part of
almost every decent pages’ navigation?

Please don’t take this as saying your request isn’t valid - it
definitely IS valid - but I have to point out that no, it isn’t a
part of almost every page’s navigation, or every decent page for that
matter. It is just one of the many ways that navigation is done. I’m
sure a number of people do it the hard way - manually - and with
non-layered content. (And I’m sure that the majority of pages put
navigation at the top or left, which sidesteps the issue entirely.)

One basic issue is that, when using layered content, if you don’t
take extra steps, each layer is entirely independent of the others.
So when text sizes increase, other items aren’t pushed down to
accommodate. This is the sort of thing you have to work around.

c) updated manual (FW4 one is really well written but kinda out of
date now, no?)

I imagine we’re only days away from the Freeway 5 launch, which I
would assume includes an updated manual. The Freeway 4 one is, as
always, just as in or out of date as Freeway 4 itself. :wink:

k


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One basic issue is that, when using layered content, if you don’t
take extra steps, each layer is entirely independent of the others.
So when text sizes increase, other items aren’t pushed down to
accommodate. This is the sort of thing you have to work around.

Yes! but it is almost undocumented. And this Heather footer thing has ceased to work.

I imagine we’re only days away from the Freeway 5 launch, which I
would assume includes an updated manual. The Freeway 4 one is, as
always, just as in or out of date as Freeway 4 itself. :wink:

If you look on the Softpress website, there is actually a sort of updated FWY5 manual - although it is short and doesn’t address this topic.


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On 25 Mar 2008, at 10:34, John-Paul Kernot wrote:

If you look on the Softpress website, there is actually a sort of
updated FWY5 manual - although it is short and doesn’t address this
topic.

From experience, it’s hard work writing a manual - especially when
the target moves as quickly as Freeway!

If I recall my footer tutorial thing was based on table-based items.
I’ve been experimenting to see if I can replicate a similar footer
using CSS layers, but it can prove frustrating because of the way
other elements on the page behave.

I’ll post up some steps shortly, but don’t expect it to be completely
bulletproof.

Heather


“Freeway - Web Design for All”


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Thanks Heather!

Quite simply I can happily put a footer on a page via a master page in a non css box - don’t get me wrong - but I have a real hard time getting it to float down and sort of stick to the bottom regardless of page length. That’s all.

Incidentally, the new manual is fine. Your finest work!


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On 24 Mar 2008, at 15:16, John-Paul Kernot wrote:

Still absolutely none the wiser as how to add a footer that moves
up and down according to the length of a page.

I originally responded to this topic with a site I’d designed that
had what you seemed to be asking for, but I found that what you
wanted was a footer that stuck to the bottom of the screen, not the
site, regardless of page length. Now I realise that this is purely
subjective, and you’re entitled to do it any way you’d like, but
personally, I’m so pleased when I get an entire page that fits
entirely into an ‘average’ browser window, I’d hate to use all the
screen available if I didn’t need to. I love to see a page with
header, content and footer (if any) contained within that magic
640x480 or 800x600 shape, with some blank space below. Like I say, I
know this is purely personal, but wouldn’t you even consider that?
It’s a lot easier!

This should be a basic thing to do should it not? Is it not part of
almost every decent pages’ navigation?

Not from where I’m standing - never put navigation in a footer
before. Although I can see your point: if it’s always visible, no
matter the length of the page, you could put the nav in there.

best wishes

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


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Paul, even this page which you are looking at has nav sticking to the bottom regardless of page length. I have really no idea as to why you should always try to design to sit your site into pokey little 640x480 boxes! Let them scroll a little - that’s interactive for you at the minimum!


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Are you wanting a footer to stretch down when more text is added? like the grey footer here: http://www.skype.com

or just a footer that sticks to the bottom of a page?

There is quite difference - and the latter might not work well in IE.

On 25 Mar 2008, at 10:53, John-Paul Kernot wrote:

Quite simply I can happily put a footer on a page via a master page in a non css box - don’t get me wrong - but I have a real hard time getting it to float down and sort of stick to the bottom regardless of page length. That’s all.

David Owen
Freeway Friendly Web hosting and Domains ::

http://www.ineedwebhosting.co.uk

http://www.printlineadvertising.co.uk/freeway

On 24 Mar. 2008, 3:16 pm, John-Paul Kernot wrote:

Are you wanting a footer to stretch down when more text is added?
like the grey footer here: http://www.skype.com

or just a footer that sticks to the bottom of a page?

There is quite difference - and the latter might not work well in IE.

Good point! Not entirely sure I see the difference, but in effect I guess the stretch version.ie when my page length changes when designing, I don’t have to continuously realign the footer.


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On 25 Mar 2008, at 10:53, John-Paul Kernot wrote:

Your finest work!

I can’t claim the credit for that - I took a sabbatical before
Christmas! The current versions are the work of a certain Keith
Rigley, with a bit of help from everyone at SP Towers. I was only
involved at the earliest stages.

Can I just clarify what you’re after with this footer? You want a non-
CSS block to stick to the foot of the browser window come hell or
high water?

I’ve managed to get a CSS footer to work, but it only ever floats
beneath the other content on the page - not the foot of the browser
window. It involves a lot of inserting HTML items into page DIV, and
gets quite messy very quickly if you’re not careful =o(

There is a way to do it by setting the bottom inset of the footer
item to 0px. That way it becomes glued to the bottom of the window,
but it gets over-ridden by other content if it grows in the browser.
On a design I’m working on currently, I’ve solved this by setting a
graphic background at 70% transparency so the other stuff on the page
shows through under the footer. It looks very nice, but I’m not sure
it’s right for every situation.

Heather


“Freeway - Web Design for All”


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The basic theory of creating a footer with three divs is here:
http://www.ineedwebhosting.co.uk/examples/resizeme.html

albeit not full page width.

Make the browser text bigger and the footer moves down.

To make this a full page footer make the divs 100% wide, and make the background black.

By making the page background the “same” colour as the footer, no joins are seen between the footer bottom, and the browser bottom if the page is much shorter than the browser window height.

David

On 25 Mar 2008, at 11:15, John-Paul Kernot wrote:

Good point! Not entirely sure I see the difference, but in effect I guess the stretch version.ie when my page length changes when designing, I don’t have to continuously realign the footer.

David Owen
Freeway Friendly Web hosting and Domains ::

http://www.ineedwebhosting.co.uk

http://www.printlineadvertising.co.uk/freeway

On 25 Mar 2008, at 11:09, John-Paul Kernot wrote:

Paul, even this page which you are looking at has nav sticking to
the bottom regardless of page length.

I’m reading this via email, so I’m assuming you mean the forum page
that you’re looking at? I went and had a look, and the forum has a
footer that sticks to the bottom of the page, just like the example
of mine that I sent you, not to the bottom of the browser. If the
forum page is longer than the browser window, the footer is hidden.

I have really no idea as to why you should always try to design to
sit your site into pokey little 640x480 boxes!

I don’t; I just like it when it happens, which sometimes, by
accident, it does. Then you get the whole ‘page’ in view, with
header, content and footer, with some nice white space around
everything.

best wishes

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


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On Mar 25, 2008, at 7:47 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 25 Mar 2008, at 11:09, John-Paul Kernot wrote:

Paul, even this page which you are looking at has nav sticking to
the bottom regardless of page length.

I’m reading this via email, so I’m assuming you mean the forum page
that you’re looking at? I went and had a look, and the forum has a
footer that sticks to the bottom of the page, just like the example
of mine that I sent you, not to the bottom of the browser. If the
forum page is longer than the browser window, the footer is hidden.

The forum pages are hand-coded, but there’s nothing inherently hard
about making such a layout in Freeway. It’s all an illusion. (Steps
to follow.)

Make your page background a dove gray.

Draw an HTML box the entire width of the page. Use the inspector to
make this box 100% width. Make its background white.

Click into it so you have a flashing text cursor, and choose "Insert

HTML Item" from the main menu. Click and drag the corner of the
resulting 100px square box, and make it the width you want your page
to appear (800px or so in this example). Also color its background
white. Set its left and right margin to Auto.

Click inside this nested box so you have a text cursor, and paste or
type a bunch of page text.

Click in the first box so you again have a flashing text cursor, and
insert a second inline child box. Set its width to 100%, and fill it
with your footer content. Set the background of this box to dove gray.

Now go back through the boxes you created in reverse order of
creation, and remove their heights. (Freeway 4: delete the height
property, Freeway 5: push the button to the left of the height field
to disable it.)

Preview. No matter how you resize your text, the page will hold to
this illusion that the middle of the page floats above the footer.

The rest of the layout is just details. Use borders to create the
separation lines between the “cake layers”. The faux shadow above the
bottom nav is simply a dark gray border at the bottom of the white
layer and a slightly lighter gray border at the top of the pale gray
navigation layer. The graphical bar at the top of the page is a
horizontally tiled image set as the page background, covered in the
middle by a non-tiled header graphic.

Walter


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Well that sounds nice and simple, thanks Walter I’ll give it a go when I finish what I’m doing.
Trev

On 25 Mar 2008, at 12:51, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

Make your page background a dove gray.

Draw an HTML box the entire width of the page. Use the inspector to
make this box 100% width. Make its background white.

Click into it so you have a flashing text cursor, and choose "Insert

HTML Item" from the main menu. Click and drag the corner of the

resulting 100px square box, and make it the width you want your page
to appear (800px or so in this example). Also color its background
white. Set its left and right margin to Auto.

Click inside this nested box so you have a text cursor, and paste or
type a bunch of page text.

Click in the first box so you again have a flashing text cursor, and
insert a second inline child box. Set its width to 100%, and fill it
with your footer content. Set the background of this box to dove gray.

Now go back through the boxes you created in reverse order of
creation, and remove their heights. (Freeway 4: delete the height
property, Freeway 5: push the button to the left of the height field
to disable it.)

Preview. No matter how you resize your text, the page will hold to
this illusion that the middle of the page floats above the footer.

The rest of the layout is just details. Use borders to create the
separation lines between the “cake layers”. The faux shadow above the
bottom nav is simply a dark gray border at the bottom of the white
layer and a slightly lighter gray border at the top of the pale gray
navigation layer. The graphical bar at the top of the page is a
horizontally tiled image set as the page background, covered in the
middle by a non-tiled header graphic.

Thanks Walter! Still seems desperately complicated to achieve something so simple. Multiple entries minuscule things to remember.

Anyhow - browsing around I came across this site which goes into css layouts specifically on Freeway

http://www.archiva.net/fwtemplate/fwtemplate2.html

Problem is her method seems to be slightly different from yours.

Still, somebody should get some benefit from these pages I guess if they haven’t seen them before.


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On 25 Mar 2008, at 13:24, John-Paul Kernot wrote:

Thanks Walter! Still seems desperately complicated to achieve
something so simple. Multiple entries minuscule things to remember.

Anyhow - browsing around I came across this site which goes into
css layouts specifically on Freeway

http://www.archiva.net/fwtemplate/fwtemplate2.html

As a matter of interest, this page of Paula’s (fwtemplate2) is the
exact way I made the site I first showed you in reply to your
original request: http://www.harkenconsulting.com/

Problem is her method seems to be slightly different from yours.

Doesn’t matter - it’s a bit like Photoshop: different ways to do the
same/similar things.

Paula’s tutorials taught me much of the little I know about CSS,
particularly this one:

http://www.archiva.net/pdf/fw_tutorial.pdf

This is a beautifully written guide and, with maybe a bit of help
from one of the online CSS ‘schools’ it will tell you a massive
amount about using CSS in Freeway. It’s almost a school in itself.

best wishes

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


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As a matter of interest, this page of Paula’s (fwtemplate2) is the exact way I made the site I first showed you in reply to your original request: www.harkenconsulting.com/

Thanks Paul. I had not appreciated that. I think I just learned a lot. Still, I do think that a lot of this functionality is really fiddly and the path to success somewhat opaque.


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Walter
Thanks for the quick tutorial, I’m working on a site right now and was wondering how to do that.

What is the best page size to use? I can’t get the the white html box and the pale grey box to stretch across the page they’re both set to 100% wide. My page is set to 1000 px wide and my html boxes to 830 px wide. If I go wider, then the content will not display center on smaller monitors. I’m sure I’m missing something real simple here.

I tried to replicate it here: http://freshbrand.com/fwtest/footer.html


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