It would be interesting to know how many copies of FW5 (both versions) have sold and are expected to sell worldwide in the coming months, so that an enterprising publisher could at least work out the viability of a commercial print run.
I like having a book open in front of me, and I STRONGLY suggest that software publishers should at least have a REASONABLE and AFFORDABLE option for purchasing printed instruction and reference manuals. The lack of available printed manuals is becoming a qualifier in purchase decisions… one that publishers should be more cognizant of.
I couldn’t disagree more. With indexed and searchable PDFs, and even more possibilities available with contextual help systems, printed documentation is not only obsolete but environmentally irresponsible.
While I understand some people are unable to change the way they work and need a book in front of them, most folks don’t. Asking the publisher to make this more affordable means doing it in quantity. Quantities that usually ensure that the book is obsolete well before the supply is exhausted. I prefer not to see that kind of waste, nor incur the costs involved with it.
The solution we have now is almost perfect. You can have it printed if you really need it, hundreds (or thousands) of books don’t go into the landfill every time a new version is released, and the lion’s share of us have the electronic documentation we prefer.
I agree that we should always minimize paper but I can also understand the folks out there who prefer a hard copy to refer to. I had the manual printed at our local university print shop (cost was $40.66) which is dirt cheap when converted to Euro’s or UK pound at today’s exchange rates. The postage is around $11 to the UK from the US I believe which makes this an affordable alternative for those who want the paper copy.
The copy I had printed at U.C. San Diego where I work was black and white on the inside with color covers with a clear plastic protector. The b&W pages are just fine, you don’t really need color pages for the text and graphics.
I car pool with the imprints manager and he can print as many as we want on a demand basis. I don’t want to get into the business of distribution in large quantities but I would be willing to work with individuals if it didnt’ become too overwhelming and includes at least a minor amount for shipping and handling to cover some of my time. I also assume Softpress would have no problem with this arrangement but I don’t know.
I’d be interested in feedback.
Bill
On Thursday, June 26, 2008, at 08:10AM, “Solutions Etcetera” email@hidden wrote:
On 26 Jun 2008, 2:34 pm, Frank Trinkle wrote:
I couldn’t disagree more. With indexed and searchable PDFs, and even more possibilities available with contextual help systems, printed documentation is not only obsolete but environmentally irresponsible.
On 26 Jun 2008, at 16:10, Solutions Etcetera wrote:
I couldn’t disagree more.
Nor could I. I used to love manuals, and I bitched about it when they
stopped being included. Then I discovered how great it was to be able
to search a PDF, and how great Preview was at handling and displaying
them compared to Adobe reader, and I never looked back. Really, it’s
just a little leap you have to make - sure, after being used to
printed matter, PDFs are a bit daunting, but it’s really trivial to
keep one open either behind or beside your application and switch
between them. And from an environmental point of view, I’d NEVER waste
all that paper! Come on, people; save a tree.
I wish I could tell you that the Kindle is good at PDFs… It really shines with native Kindle documents.
So far, the only way I can see to distribute them is to sell them through Amazon at a minimum of $1. At least that includes immediate wireless delivery…
Does the Sony Reader support the MobiPocket (.prc) format?
And from an environmental point of view, I’d NEVER waste all that paper! Come on, people; save a tree.
I agree; here in the US we get an average of 100 lbs of unsolicited junk mail per year, often on glossy paper.
PDF’s in Preview are easy to use and search while simultaneously using Freeway. As Paul indicated, they can be resized to sit beside or behind the FW page you’re working on.
Out of the mainstream, publishers should do a better job of supporting
their customer’s needs… and that means YOU - Softpress!
Our corporate ethos dictates that we consider the needs of our customers
in every action we take. Examples of this are manifold… too many to
list, and often to the expense of our bottom line.
Three things come immediately to mind:
Our extraordinary free and responsive Support system. ( I always
capitalize the word in reverence…)
Using Freeway 5 manual - 117 pages, beautifully produced in full color
that sells for $20 in a box with a back-up CD. This manual is augmented
by online tutorials
And as for the Freeway 5 Reference… a comprehensive carefully-written
450-page tome supplied as a PDF… and with instructions for
printing… Soon, this will also be available (in b&w with color
covers) from our on-demand printers for less $40 plus shipping.
We did think FedexKinko might be a reasonable alternative at around $60
±… it doesn’t seem that popular, though I thought the quality was
very good.
I’m not up to discussing the economics of producing such a monster in-
house. Our goal is to produce quality documentation and provide as many
output options as reasonable. In this, I feel we have succeeded.
On top of this, a couple of books are in the offing… though their
arrival remains in the lap of the gods.
If nothing else, we are listening and trying to make your Freeway
experience the best it can be. If anyone has ideas to further this
quest, please don’t keep them to yourself.
Regards to All,
Richard
I work at a major university in Southern California and got a quote
today for just under $40 from our print shop. They are very good and
take care of all of our printing.
Of course this doesn’t include postage or handling but it’s in the
range. Sound interesting to anyone?
I dread the thought of what I’m getting into here!
But I’m going to order at least one copy for myself.
That 40 bucks is clearly for black and white printing only. I have
researched getting it done in color (like the pdf) and the cheapest rate
is $.49/pg plus additional cost for binding and trimming. That would
cost about $225 for the ref manual in color. Ridiculous!
My option is to print the reference manual on my new Samsung Color Laser
Mutifunction unit, with an expected cost of about $.10/pg, bringing it
inline with commercial B&W rates. I can always take the resulting ream
to Office Depot or Office Max and simply pay a binding fee to make it
look pretty!
As to the environmental suggestion earlier about not printing, but
downloading to a spare computer (or a second monitor), that may work
fine for some, but many of us are using Freeway on the road on laptops.
(me= MacBook Pro17) and trying to go back and forth between development
screen and ref manual is just too much of a pain… and SLOW!
I am one of those who don’t like trying to learn or reference material
via pdf’s while using the base program. I like having a book open in
front of me, and I STRONGLY suggest that software publishers should at
least have a REASONABLE and AFFORDABLE option for purchasing printed
instruction and reference manuals. The lack of available printed
manuals is becoming a qualifier in purchase decisions… one that
publishers should be more cognizant of.
If the programs were more mainstream, and had significant marketshare,
then outside writers and publishers would be climbing all over
themselves to write tutorial-type books (a la “For Dummies”, and “The
Missing Manual” series for programs like MS Office, Photoshop, Leopard,
etc…) Out of the mainstream, publishers should do a better job of
supporting their customer’s needs… and that means YOU - Softpress!
On 27 Jun 2008, 3:25 pm, Softpress1 wrote:
If nothing else, we are listening and trying to make your Freeway
experience the best it can be. If anyone has ideas to further this
quest, please don’t keep them to yourself.
Richard,
I do think FW is one of the best documented applications in recent times… but since you asked:
I would love to see some form of tag in the actions parser for context sensitive help. Finding and keeping little bits and pieces for infrequently used actions is a weak spot.
No Keith nice to speak again - I guess copyright may well be the problem, I guess I’ll wait for the Softpess on-demand printer (as mentioned by Richard earlier) to get geared up to do it, I can live with black and white. I appreciate the comments about saving paper but sad as I am I quite like sitting with a manual on my lap and reading through it ! Best Roger
Keith - I’ve just reread my clumsy post above … what I meant to say was “No reason given Keith, nice to speak to you again” - it came about a bit rude …
… and Paul, yes as well, and nice to speak to you again - it might be size (that’s always been a problem) seriously though, there didn’t seem to be a contact email on Lulu, the live chat is the only ‘contact’ option, quite a good idea but it’s a bit easy for the guy on the other end to get bored or not bother having a proper conversation ie whoever it was basically said “We can’t print that” and that was the end of the conversation, I’ve since mailed my local university and hope to get something from them 'though I don’t really see how they’ll be able to do it for as little as I can really afford.
Because Softpress explicitly distributes a ‘self print’ version this is allowed under the Lulu ‘member agreement’. So long as you don;t try to sell it on Lulu, there is no reason they cannot print a personal copy. No reason to listen to any reps; just upload and print!