i know… but we have come a long way, with a lot of things we did not know we would be able to in fw3 and are doing now in fw 5, dont we??
so i’m stil hopeful 
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On this I would disagree, I know very little about html, I am not a
graphic designer I chose Freeway because I could do the things I
wanted to do with my one web site without the need to know any coding
at all.
I say Freeway is very good for beginners building a beginner site.
It will not make a beginner build a monster super complicated site and
no other program will either.
Dave
On Apr 27, 2009, at 2:23 PM, eus wrote:
Most of you have schooled into webdesign, are teachers, graphic
designers, developpers or in some way known to programs like
dreamweaver or others.
Freeway Pro is becoming more and more a Pro program and less a
W.y.s.i.w.y.g.
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Hi eus
Is not this mostly around the switch from table based page structure to CSS
based page structure?- along with all the various hierarchy of styles issues
that can now throw things awry?
I note that in my MUG Freeway is no longer rated or recommended - and I
don’t do so as I haven’t achieved the jump into the new ways that v4 and v5
brought in. I often hit weird or unexpected things that I don’t understand
and usually work round rather than work through.
I could say that keeping the CSS button off - staying in table layout mode -
remains incredibly easy - but the skill level has increased in that there
are a lot more things to learn or grasp - and CSS is the dominant web trend
so this isn’t Freeway’s ‘fault’ but that what Softpress now offers is its
best shot at making CSS web technology available in the Freeway mode of
working.
I haven’t got a code background- or proclivity - and I depend on Freeway.
But I resonate with your view in that I have fallen off the learning curve
as Freeway has moved v4-v5. To be sure there are other factors involved - in
my personal life and in the need or demand to meet the needs of myself or
others.
But I don’t feel Freeway can be such a simple tool in the current web.
In Freeway 3, as a web virgin, I made a large and fairly complex site inside
the demo period that all worked for me as design and function. The other
demos of web apps didn’t come close. But nowadays I feel out of the loop and
though I know quite a lot of the old ways - I meet confusion often.
I manage to do what I need - but its all like shaky ground or thinner ice.
But some of that is also my head - no doubt!
all the best
Brian
eus said recently:
ok, hoping nobody will pull my head of afther this. But i don’t think FW is
such an nice program for beginners any more.I started on fw3 to and yes i learned a lot. But working and trying to learn,
the english is stil a big issue for me ( and a lot of others )The wonderfull support here, is as i say WONDERFULL, but i realy am not so
crazy about the support i got over the years from the ‘hq’.
Afther questions i did not always ( read hardly ever) get a good answer on, i
always turned to you guy’s to get a good direction, that got me in the good
way!
I did a lot of nice sites in the last years, more on my talent for visual
things, than my knowledge of html or webdesign and a lot of help from the die
hards here on the list.Yes it did change over the years, but i still find it hard to manage CSS.
Still don’t understand it like i would like to. And not just the Css.Most of you have schooled into webdesign, are teachers, graphic designers,
developpers or in some way known to programs like dreamweaver or others.
Freeway Pro is becoming more and more a Pro program and less a W.y.s.i.w.y.g.The drop and drag? come on… its a mac thing!
Why can’t we have a history in what we do?
Why can’t we have a real secure login without having to go to php and my sql ?
( without a 3th party action to be made (please!!))
And yes, Softpress is in every newsletter saying they have such great
templates, i asume for the beginners, but they are still the same templates
they had a 2 years ago.I know this does not sound nice, but its not like i want to burn my beloved
programm off. I love Freeway pro. Update every time. Buy every update i have
to when it has to be bought.
I do buy the actions i need, and wil keep on buying because i believe in
Freeway. I just don’t think it is very ‘beginners’ friendly anymore. And i
mean not just the designer students, but also the butcher on the corner who
wants to make his own website, that he could in the fw3 period, when it was a
‘what you see, is what you get’ program.Freeway Pro and Freeway Express are very beautifull webdesign programm, that
let you design a website without having to handle to much html or encoding.sorry i’m not trying to be a pain.
Eugenie
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Hi Brian, somehow i feel we are saying the same thing…
or am i misreading you?
i just feel, the differents between 3 to 4 and then to 5 is so big that i feel lost sometimes.
the english support is also for me sometimes a issue. it’s not my birth language, i don’t read, write, speak it like i would like to, so i misread a lot.
fw3 was for me clear!
I realise that time goes by and we have to go ahead! i do hope to go with the program and grow along with it, but i still find it growing far quicker than i can handle sometimes. ( and i do know that i am not alone in this and surely not alone in the netherlands)
Now i do not want to miss my Fw pro 5 and all its updates for one day!!! i love it… i do hope that one day i do get to know it. But today i feel, that everyday i learn something, the next level is already there and i’m behind the learning progress.
am i making any sense??
Eus
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I’ve been using freeway since 3 (perhaps 2 but can’t remember!!) and I really don’t feel that the jumps between each version have been too drastic, the basics of the application have remained mostly the same…take a look at 3, what do you find so much easier about it than 5 (there’s not much of a difference). Also, I’m no graphic designer or teacher but Freeway (plus work with Photoshop) has allowed me to develop ability in this field.
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On 28 Apr 2009, at 16:43, Fergus T wrote:
I’ve been using freeway since 3 (perhaps 2 but can’t remember!!) and
I really don’t feel that the jumps between each version have been
too drastic, the basics of the application have remained mostly the
same…take a look at 3, what do you find so much easier about it
than 5 (there’s not much of a difference)
Agreed, there isn’t much of a difference — unless you use the CSS
button; then it’s another world entirely. If you click that button,
Freeway is just as great as it always was, BUT you have to know a lot
of stuff that you didn’t have to before …
best wishes,
Paul Bradforth
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Yes Eus and I appreciate that you wrote in without rancour or blame.
And I likewise and with both feet gratefully standing in a Freeway work
mode.
There are various aspects to learning for me: one is specific to getting a
job done and the other is a greater understanding about the ways and why’s
of doing it.
I don’t have an insatiable thirst for informational knowledge - but I love
becoming more clearly orientated.
I suspect the new way of working that I alluded to in last post is such that
Freeway cannot be as simple a tool as it was.
I am not attracted to CSS ways of working - but that is because I haven’t
‘got it’. Now that is a matter of not yet understanding, linked with a
reluctance to approach things that way. But there are great communicators
heare and one day things might come clearer for me!
I applaud your forbearance despite language difficulties and encourage you
to be willing to ask when you know what the question is.
all the best
Brian
eus said recently:
Hi Brian, somehow i feel we are saying the same thing…
or am i misreading you?i just feel, the differents between 3 to 4 and then to 5 is so big that i feel
lost sometimes.
the english support is also for me sometimes a issue. it’s not my birth
language, i don’t read, write, speak it like i would like to, so i misread a
lot.fw3 was for me clear!
I realise that time goes by and we have to go ahead! i do hope to go with the
program and grow along with it, but i still find it growing far quicker than i
can handle sometimes. ( and i do know that i am not alone in this and surely
not alone in the netherlands)Now i do not want to miss my Fw pro 5 and all its updates for one day!!! i
love it… i do hope that one day i do get to know it. But today i feel, that
everyday i learn something, the next level is already there and i’m behind the
learning progress.
am i making any sense??Eus
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Thanks all, for understanding me! it’s just what i mean with this list.
( not trying to suck up to anybody) but this list and its makers and hard core writers take my level up and up… and that is exactly what i miss sometimes in the support from Softpress. It’s you guy’s that make the program work for me!
Thanks!
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… And in 5 the whole text styles issue is much more confusing - at least
to me.
I get loads of behaviour I don’t understand and almost always have to keep
redoing or cleaning up in the Inspector styles tab when it makes new styles
or applies styles doubly.
If I were to stop to write it all out I would not get the work done.
When I paste and match style - it adds new styles.
And I often get weirdness in all of my sites in 5 such as
body
strong
body
strong
etc…
I agree that in basic table layout mode Freeway remains amazingly simple to
use in ways that just work.
But I feel there are more ways to get into confusion.
Its pretty obvious from the results of others that once you know the way of
it - the CSS aspect of Freeway is an effective tool.
There are many aspects and variations in the CSS way of it and a lot more to
know than just designing the page and letting Freeway handle it - (FW table
mode). I don’t see that as Freeway’s fault - but hope it becomes easier to
learn or implement in future.
regards
Brian
Paul Bradforth said recently:
On 28 Apr 2009, at 16:43, Fergus T wrote:
I’ve been using freeway since 3 (perhaps 2 but can’t remember!!) and
I really don’t feel that the jumps between each version have been
too drastic, the basics of the application have remained mostly the
same…take a look at 3, what do you find so much easier about it
than 5 (there’s not much of a difference)Agreed, there isn’t much of a difference unless you use the CSS
button; then it’s another world entirely. If you click that button,
Freeway is just as great as it always was, BUT you have to know a lot
of stuff that you didn’t have to before …best wishes,
Paul Bradforth
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Ok, we agree, we have to do a nice workshop or masterclass than! KEITH… WHERE ARE YOU???
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I just started using Freeway Express to make a single site for my own business - and I find it hard to believe that macformat rated FW that way! As an almost complete newbie to website design, I find Express very easy to use. Sure, there’s a learning curve, but the program offers a lot.
Here’s my assessment after using it for a little over a week:
Ease of use : 4/5
Templates: n/a
Adding Images: 4/5
Blogs :n/a
Flexibility (havent used long enough… so n/a)
Publishing 5/5… (two clicks and my site is uploaded after initial ftp setup, how much easier is that!?)
All I can say is, I’m glad I found Express for my single website.
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I agree with you about the uploading, couldn’t be more simple!
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