On 13 Mar 2020, at 01:53, Greg email@hidden wrote:
Continued development would be nice. See below; not going to happen.
I’ve had other developers disappear. One sold the software for years after he quit supporting it. Like Intaglio it was well enough written that it continued to work for years.
But I wouldn’t dump on all independent developers because some fail or retire or abandon.
The biggees regularly give on on software. One that I didn’t like was Apple abandoning Aperture. And they did it just like Intaglio; years of no upgrade and finally announced that it was over. Open source efforts fade too.
I looked at QCAD but for the amount I use Intaglio I’ll stick with Intaglio. QCAD would be a learning curve.
Looks like Intaglio is Purgatory’s only macOS software. And their website has two iOS programs shown that are not longer available. Nick Nallick, email@hidden • 970-259-7129 Software Engineer, Asynchrony Labs is listed as the seller for the macOS program and in 2016 he apparently was working for them.
But I’ve certainly gotten my money’s worth; no complaints there. I just don’t want to learn another program. And there isn’t much in this area. I want the rulers and sizing (being able to type the numbers) features among others; most in this space are graphic design and lack these CAD features. The CAD programs are too powerful.
payed a long time ago the fee. Use it beside a lot of other drawing programs. But the main reason for buying was: it opens all my old design’s from the sys6 to sys9 time of old programs (macdraw, clarisdraw, etc).
And untill now this is one of the best editors for svg’s.
For that and the opening old-files i will pay an upgrade price if necessary. So someone has to accept the challenge.
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If only because I dread having to switch. (I keep an old mini on a KVM just in case!)
Best,
–schremmer
On Dec 10, 2020, at 7:06 AM, Dirk Vermeulen email@hidden wrote:
payed a long time ago the fee. Use it beside a lot of other drawing programs. But the main reason for buying was: it opens all my old design’s from the sys6 to sys9 time of old programs (macdraw, clarisdraw, etc).
And untill now this is one of the best editors for svg’s.
For that and the opening old-files i will pay an upgrade price if necessary. So someone has to accept the challenge.
I’ve used Intaglio for years with reasonably fair luck. I suspect the reason for discontinuance of support was not just the lack of purchasers but continuance of upgrading the OS system and then going from 32 bit to 64. Very tough in the head and on the pocket book.
I’ve tried a considerable number of apps and most did not do well including EazyDraw. I’m talking about importing, exporting, ungrouping documents from other apps. I had to do something to pick up the slack of loosing Intaglio in new operating systems.
I did find one that did all that but it took quite a bit of manipulation. SimpleCAD2 fit the bill ($20). But, to work with it, I dragged the thumbprint of the Intaglio drawing as shown in the Finder column into SimpleCAD2 and it worked. It Ungouped Intaglio drawings easily enabling me to functionally manipulate the drawing.
Of course, as mentioned in other comments, it is a matter of the likelyness of staying in business.
Hope this does well with you all.
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Intaglio is already a 62-bit application, so no major rewrite would be necessary to make sure it would be completely compatible with Big Sur. (original message had graphs showing Intaglio listing from “System Information” but mail list would not accept it even when reduced in size!)
Thanks for heads-up on SimpleCAD2. Looking forward to comments of those who try/use it. A 82 years old and having used intaglio since MacDraw and then ClarisDraw disappeared I really don’t want to learn a new application. EasyDraw didn’t doitfor me!
Jack Jennings
On Feb 7, 2021, at 11:04 AM, budspwr <email@hidden mailto:email@hidden> wrote:
I’ve used Intaglio for years with reasonably fair luck. I suspect the reason for discontinuance of support was not just the lack of purchasers but continuance of upgrading the OS system and then going from 32 bit to 64. Very tough in the head and on the pocket book.
I’ve tried a considerable number of apps and most did not do well including EazyDraw. I’m talking about importing, exporting, ungrouping documents from other apps. I had to do something to pick up the slack of loosing Intaglio in new operating systems.
I did find one that did all that but it took quite a bit of manipulation. SimpleCAD2 fit the bill ($20). But, to work with it, I dragged the thumbprint of the Intaglio drawing as shown in the Finder column into SimpleCAD2 and it worked. It Ungouped Intaglio drawings easily enabling me to functionally manipulate the drawing.
Of course, as mentioned in other comments, it is a matter of the likelyness of staying in business.
87 years old and remember Lisa software. I was amazed going from 1985 to today.
On Feb 7, 2021, at 3:08 PM, J Evans Jennings Jr. email@hidden wrote:
Hi budspwr,
Intaglio is already a 62-bit application, so no major rewrite would be necessary to make sure it would be completely compatible with Big Sur. (original message had graphs showing Intaglio listing from “System Information” but mail list would not accept it even when reduced in size!)
Thanks for heads-up on SimpleCAD2. Looking forward to comments of those who try/use it. A 82 years old and having used intaglio since MacDraw and then ClarisDraw disappeared I really don’t want to learn a new application. EasyDraw didn’t do it for me!
Jack Jennings
On Feb 7, 2021, at 11:04 AM, budspwr <email@hidden mailto:email@hidden> wrote:
I’ve used Intaglio for years with reasonably fair luck. I suspect the reason for discontinuance of support was not just the lack of purchasers but continuance of upgrading the OS system and then going from 32 bit to 64. Very tough in the head and on the pocket book.
I’ve tried a considerable number of apps and most did not do well including EazyDraw. I’m talking about importing, exporting, ungrouping documents from other apps. I had to do something to pick up the slack of loosing Intaglio in new operating systems.
I did find one that did all that but it took quite a bit of manipulation. SimpleCAD2 fit the bill ($20). But, to work with it, I dragged the thumbprint of the Intaglio drawing as shown in the Finder column into SimpleCAD2 and it worked. It Ungouped Intaglio drawings easily enabling me to functionally manipulate the drawing.
Of course, as mentioned in other comments, it is a matter of the likelyness of staying in business.
I have tried Graphic. The problem with most of these, for my needs, is that they’re “drawing” apps and not “drafting” apps. There is some crossover of course, but for those of us that need drafting, the drawing apps just don’t have the right feature set.
John Whisman
707-694-2380
On Feb 8, 2021, at 4:00 AM, jayartibee email@hidden wrote:
How about Affinity Designer.
That is what I am using (along with Publisher and Photo).
IanH
On 8 Feb 2021, at 13:23, John Whisman email@hidden wrote:
I have tried Graphic. The problem with most of these, for my needs, is that they’re “drawing” apps and not “drafting” apps. There is some crossover of course, but for those of us that need drafting, the drawing apps just don’t have the right feature set.
John Whisman
707-694-2380
On Feb 8, 2021, at 4:00 AM, jayartibee email@hidden wrote:
Same problem with affinity designer-it’s a drawing app. As I recall I couldn’t even scale a drawing.
John Whisman
707-694-2380
On Feb 8, 2021, at 8:37 AM, email@hidden wrote:
How about Affinity Designer.
That is what I am using (along with Publisher and Photo).
IanH
On 8 Feb 2021, at 13:23, John Whisman email@hidden wrote:
I have tried Graphic. The problem with most of these, for my needs, is that they’re “drawing” apps and not “drafting” apps. There is some crossover of course, but for those of us that need drafting, the drawing apps just don’t have the right feature set.
John Whisman
707-694-2380
On Feb 8, 2021, at 4:00 AM, jayartibee email@hidden wrote:
I’m far more inclined to need a drafting than a drawing app just as you say. So, I’m still looking but working with SimpleCAD2 right now. Affinity is very unsuitable for me as is Graphic. I can’t afford Photoshop annual cost let alone a one time expense.
Bud Willner
On Feb 8, 2021, at 9:20 AM, John Whisman email@hidden wrote:
Same problem with affinity designer-it’s a drawing app. As I recall I couldn’t even scale a drawing.
John Whisman
707-694-2380
On Feb 8, 2021, at 8:37 AM, email@hidden wrote:
How about Affinity Designer.
That is what I am using (along with Publisher and Photo).
IanH
On 8 Feb 2021, at 13:23, John Whisman email@hidden wrote:
I have tried Graphic. The problem with most of these, for my needs, is that they’re “drawing” apps and not “drafting” apps. There is some crossover of course, but for those of us that need drafting, the drawing apps just don’t have the right feature set.
John Whisman
707-694-2380
On Feb 8, 2021, at 4:00 AM, jayartibee email@hidden wrote:
Transitions: MacDraw, ClarisDraw, Intaglio. All great DRAFTING programs with good text editor. Those were too good to be true and only minor updates. Those suffered from poor marketing and no business method to maintain their income. Marketing: look at the credit card people offering an incentive if you can get an acquaintance to sign up. Income: charge an initial fee plus an annual reasonable renewal fee.
Why do I have a suspicion that the App Store is requiring too big a bite of anything for it to work?
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I don’t envie developers. For something I use continually a subscription might be OK. But I use a drafting program occasionally and more comfortable buying a program and assume I will renew or upgrade in say three years. That’s what I used to do with Photoshop Elements. About $70 every three years. I’ve changed programs but same idea.
I don’t think you can blame Apple. Programs can be sold without the store for macOS; but most developers seem to find they must be in the store to make it. But the iOS store may have hurt. There is a rush to the bottom and most programs are too cheap to be sustainable. People expect programs to be cheap. And too many of us are willing to buy the cheaper program. I’ve seen and participated in using a free program that eventually started charging. Did I stay with the payment or try something else.?Depends. But now that there are fewer major changes in programs, I find I buy (usually) or subscribe and stay with it for as long as possible. The trouble of changing is the major pain point, not the cost.
Apple’s cut may be too big, but 70 percent vs say 90 percent probably wouldn’t be the make or break for many programs. In fact if the cut were lower, some developers might just cut the price to get more business.
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My issue is with cloud computing. We are forced to loose our freedom of choice, pay high annual costs, loose control of our data, loose control of what program works with what set of data. This last one may be hard to understand but I have an example.
TurboTax: Every year I purchase a CD which has the tax year program on it. The reason for this is IRS changes parts of the tax plan every year. New tax year programs do not work with previous year tax requirements. So, yes I have many CD’s for all my tax years. Now, if TurboTax went to cloud computing, I would loose control of all my personal tax data, and, if called into IRS I would not have my data. Hard copies, perhaps! None the less, sending my personal data into the clouds is not a happy thought. Other cloud programs are the same, scary.
I have not tried Canvas in a very long time. And, I do think cheaper app generally do not stay around. Seems the developer is looking for a buyer. This is true for computer hardware sellers/developers a well as software developers. I bought a very expensive PTZ outdoor camera from an outfit doing business with China and now their web page is on the blocks like Intaglio.
Bud Willner
On Feb 9, 2021, at 9:59 PM, Greg email@hidden wrote:
On 10 Feb 2021, 2:00 am, Jean Haydel wrote:
I think Canvas was in my history.
I don’t envie developers. For something I use continually a subscription might be OK. But I use a drafting program occasionally and more comfortable buying a program and assume I will renew or upgrade in say three years. That’s what I used to do with Photoshop Elements. About $70 every three years. I’ve changed programs but same idea.
I don’t think you can blame Apple. Programs can be sold without the store for macOS; but most developers seem to find they must be in the store to make it. But the iOS store may have hurt. There is a rush to the bottom and most programs are too cheap to be sustainable. People expect programs to be cheap. And too many of us are willing to buy the cheaper program. I’ve seen and participated in using a free program that eventually started charging. Did I stay with the payment or try something else.?Depends. But now that there are fewer major changes in programs, I find I buy (usually) or subscribe and stay with it for as long as possible. The trouble of changing is the major pain point, not the cost.
Apple’s cut may be too big, but 70 percent vs say 90 percent probably wouldn’t be the make or break for many programs. In fact if the cut were lower, some developers might just cut the price to get more business.
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That is one reason I have gone for Affinity. They look like they are making inroads into Adobe’s business and look like they are likely to be around for a few years.
However Affinity Design doesn’t have dimensioned lines and suchlike, so is probably not a viable option for those wanting a draughting package.
My issue is with cloud computing. We are forced to loose our freedom of choice, pay high annual costs, loose control of our data, loose control of what program works with what set of data. This last one may be hard to understand but I have an example.
TurboTax: Every year I purchase a CD which has the tax year program on it. The reason for this is IRS changes parts of the tax plan every year. New tax year programs do not work with previous year tax requirements. So, yes I have many CD’s for all my tax years. Now, if TurboTax went to cloud computing, I would loose control of all my personal tax data, and, if called into IRS I would not have my data. Hard copies, perhaps! None the less, sending my personal data into the clouds is not a happy thought. Other cloud programs are the same, scary.
I have not tried Canvas in a very long time. And, I do think cheaper app generally do not stay around. Seems the developer is looking for a buyer. This is true for computer hardware sellers/developers a well as software developers. I bought a very expensive PTZ outdoor camera from an outfit doing business with China and now their web page is on the blocks like Intaglio.
Bud Willner
On Feb 9, 2021, at 9:59 PM, Greg email@hidden wrote:
On 10 Feb 2021, 2:00 am, Jean Haydel wrote:
I think Canvas was in my history.
I don’t envie developers. For something I use continually a subscription might be OK. But I use a drafting program occasionally and more comfortable buying a program and assume I will renew or upgrade in say three years. That’s what I used to do with Photoshop Elements. About $70 every three years. I’ve changed programs but same idea.
I don’t think you can blame Apple. Programs can be sold without the store for macOS; but most developers seem to find they must be in the store to make it. But the iOS store may have hurt. There is a rush to the bottom and most programs are too cheap to be sustainable. People expect programs to be cheap. And too many of us are willing to buy the cheaper program. I’ve seen and participated in using a free program that eventually started charging. Did I stay with the payment or try something else.?Depends. But now that there are fewer major changes in programs, I find I buy (usually) or subscribe and stay with it for as long as possible. The trouble of changing is the major pain point, not the cost.
Apple’s cut may be too big, but 70 percent vs say 90 percent probably wouldn’t be the make or break for many programs. In fact if the cut were lower, some developers might just cut the price to get more business.
As a long time user of MacDraw, followed by ClarisDraw and finally Intaglio, I don’t want to they and find an alternate. I remember using Canvas many many years ago and the drawing side of it did not compare with a true vector-based DRAWING program. I need the dimensioning, I need the multiple layers and I really like Intaglio.
Several members of this mail list have said they have written to Mark Hamlin. Can anyone provide a good email or physical address for him. I was saddened to attempt to visit his website, purgatorydesign.com and found, “purgatorydesign.com expired on 02/06/2021 and is pending renewal or deletion.”
Is Mark Hamlin retired? still alive? Could possibly a deluge of emails asking him to either keep Intaglio going or to sell (or give) the 2011 copyright and code to some young, programmer who could keep it going? If it would…. someone please dig up an address telephone number or other means of contact. LinkedIn list 100+ Mark Hamlins, none of which appear to be him. Facebook lists 80! If anyone knows anything, please speak up!
Comments solicited,
Jack Jennings, Sicklerville, NJ
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Correction - Although Mark Hamlin held the 2011 Copyrigh it appears the Nick Nallick is the person to contact. Any contacting for him?
Dear fellow Intaglio users,
As a long time user of MacDraw, followed by ClarisDraw and finally Intaglio, I don’t want to they and find an alternate. I remember using Canvas many many years ago and the drawing side of it did not compare with a true vector-based DRAWING program. I need the dimensioning, I need the multiple layers and I really like Intaglio.
Is Mark Hamlin retired? still alive? Could possibly a deluge of emails asking him to either keep Intaglio going or to sell (or give) the 2011 copyright and code to some young, programmer who could keep it going? If it would…. someone please dig up an address telephone number or other means of contact. LinkedIn list 100+ Mark Hamlins, none of which appear to be him. Facebook lists 80! If anyone knows anything, please speak up!
Comments solicited,
Jack Jennings, Sicklerville, NJ
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