Seems like the same problem - this is a bug, I am sure. See:
<http://www.tradenet.net/www.tradenet.net/jmgraves/Freeway_jmg/index.html >
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This is normal for a centered page. The browser steals ~24px from the
total width of the window to draw the vertical scrollbar, and that
shifts the center of the page to the left by half that dimension. It’s
not a bug, just something you have to design your way around if it
bothers you.
Walter
On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:56 PM, John Maitland Graves wrote:
Seems like the same problem - this is a bug, I am sure. See:
<http://www.tradenet.net/www.tradenet.net/jmgraves/Freeway_jmg/index.html
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Dear Walter,
VW told me once that it was normal for their 2001 engines to burn
oil! They eventually fixed it and gave out a lot of replacements.
I do not like web sites that are stuck to one side of the screen or
other - not very professional, IMH(?)O.
GoLive does not do that, and I have hybridized GoLive with Freeway
and did not get that jumping effect.
Perhaps someone in your brains department can find a way to
compensate for the effect. The effect looks to be less than 24
pixels It would seem to me that if the page is going to create that
effect the content could be moved over a bit automatically
Wish list: It would be wonderful if you had a redo/repeat button
(command y). The duplicate is great, but I think it should be able to
count and insert the correct number into the actions. Would be a
great time saver.
Having said all that, Freeway sure beats the pants off of anything
else out there!
Many thanks,
John Maitland
PS, meanwhile I guess something have to put somewhere at the bottom
of the short pages to compensate.
On Apr 20, 2009, at 2:03 PM, Walter Lee Davis wrote:
This is normal for a centered page. The browser steals ~24px from the
total width of the window to draw the vertical scrollbar, and that
shifts the center of the page to the left by half that dimension.
It’s not a bug, just something you have to design your way around if
it bothers you. Not true for Golive! (which I do not like.)
Walter
On Apr 20, 2009, at 1:56 PM, John Maitland Graves wrote:
Seems like the same problem - this is a bug, I am sure. See:
<http://www.tradenet.net/www.tradenet.net/jmgraves/Freeway_jmg/
index.html >
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Sometime around 20/4/09 (at 14:50 -0400) John Maitland Graves said:
GoLive does not do that, and I have hybridized GoLive with Freeway
and did not get that jumping effect.
It doesn’t matter what app you use, this effect will appear if the
page content causes scrolling. Try this in GoLive:
-
Make a centered page with just enough content to show it all
without scrolling in your browser. -
Now drag the browser window up (only up) so that it it too short
to show all the content. Boing! When the scroll bar appears, the
content shifts to the left.
This isn’t anything to do with Freeway, GoLive, Dreamweaver,
BBEdit, Emacs, or whatever other tool you use to build your web
pages, it is simply how browsers work. Page content is centered
within the page area. Scroll bars steal space, leaving slightly less
width for the page - so centered content is repositioned
automatically.
I realise that it can be a tad annoying at times, but asking
Softpress or any other developer to ‘fix’ this is like asking the
California governor to cause the sun to rise rather than set over Big
Sur. 
(Actually, I remember reading about a director, many years ago, who
wanted a beach sunset scene (sun sinking into the sea) but was on the
US East coast. “Simple, we’ll film sunrise and run it backwards.” But
of course the waves went backwards too…)
One workaround is to make sure that all your pages have enough
content to need scrolling in any reasonable browser window height.
Then the scrollbar will always be there and no sideways jump will be
seen. But yep, this is a bit of a clunky fix.
k
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If you make a centered page in any application which is completely
within the bounds of the browser’s current window size, and another
centered page with is taller than the current window size, then you
will see this horizontal jump. Always and without exception. Any page
which does not demonstrate this behavior is doing something else.
I can often spot a GoLive page quite a ways off by the way it causes a
large amount of blank space to collect below the lowest part of the
actual page content. It’s a bug in GoLive.
A vertical scrollbar indicates that there is something below the
current “screen” of content that is available for view. If it’s
nothing, there shouldn’t be a vertical scrollbar, and it’s just an
annoying tease.
Walter
On Apr 20, 2009, at 2:50 PM, John Maitland Graves wrote:
GoLive does not do that, and I have hybridized GoLive with Freeway
and did not get that jumping effect.
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it causes a large amount of blank space to collect below the lowest
part of the actual page content. It’s a bug in GoLive.
Aaaaahhh yes, I forgot about that! Yes, that always annoyed me too.
k
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Dear Keith and Martin,
Now that you have enlightened me… The problem you never know when
there will be enough space, so the only thing to do is try to
compensate by having a left alighed page with lots of blank space on
the left - that will not work on all screens!
Thanks again.
John Maitland
On Apr 20, 2009, at 3:20 PM, Keith Martin wrote:
it causes a large amount of blank space to collect below the lowest
part of the actual page content. It’s a bug in GoLive.
Aaaaahhh yes, I forgot about that! Yes, that always annoyed me too.
k
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Thanks - I wish they had told us at the outset!
Since I find the jumping annoying, I guess I’ll have to put something
in the short pages. I do think that it is a bug, someone’s and there
is no technological that the browser people should not be able to do
something about.
On Apr 20, 2009, at 3:15 PM, Walter Lee Davis wrote:
If you make a centered page in any application which is completely
within the bounds of the browser’s current window size, and another
centered page with is taller than the current window size, then you
will see this horizontal jump. Always and without exception. Any
page which does not demonstrate this behavior is doing something else.I can often spot a GoLive page quite a ways off by the way it causes
a large amount of blank space to collect below the lowest part of
the actual page content. It’s a bug in GoLive.A vertical scrollbar indicates that there is something below the
current “screen” of content that is available for view. If it’s
nothing, there shouldn’t be a vertical scrollbar, and it’s just an
annoying tease.Walter
On Apr 20, 2009, at 2:50 PM, John Maitland Graves wrote:
GoLive does not do that, and I have hybridized GoLive with Freeway
and did not get that jumping effect.
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Sometime around 20/4/09 (at 16:41 -0400) John Maitland Graves said:
Thanks - I wish they had told us at the outset!
Who?
I do think that it is a bug
From wikipedia:
“A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a
computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended”
The behaviour of browsers in this circumstance is logical and
expected, at least when viewed in light of all that goes on and the
logical consequences of this. It isn’t a bug, although it is
perfectly fair to say that it can be a little annoying.
there is no technological that the browser people should not be able
to do something about.
Heh. May I introduce you to Internet Explorer?
k
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Hi John,
There is a (fairly ugly) way round this problem:
You can force a vertical scroll bar to appear on all pages, regardless
of height, by adding a style to the page (possible in Pro only). To do
this go to the Styles Inspector in the Inspector palette, click the +
alongside the page and choose New to open the New Styles dialog. In
here click the Extended button, this will allow you to enter custom
CSS using name/value pairs. Add the name “overflow-y” and the value
“scroll” and click Ok. This is what IE on Windows does by default.
Hope this helps,
Joe
On 20 Apr 2009, at 22:47, Keith Martin wrote:
Sometime around 20/4/09 (at 16:41 -0400) John Maitland Graves said:
Thanks - I wish they had told us at the outset!
Who?
I do think that it is a bug
From wikipedia:
“A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a
computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended”The behaviour of browsers in this circumstance is logical and
expected, at least when viewed in light of all that goes on and the
logical consequences of this. It isn’t a bug, although it is
perfectly fair to say that it can be a little annoying.there is no technological that the browser people should not be
able to do something about.Heh. May I introduce you to Internet Explorer?
k
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“Them!” Should have told us. I think it might be nice to have been at
least warned by somebody, a WEB angel somewhere. This jumping
phenomenon make sense in the light of needing to take up space on the
page when a scroll bar is formed, but having an engineering/science/
programming background and total faith inhumanity, I should have
imagined that someone in all that vast cloud of Java/C/Pearl/assembler
brains out there someone like to tackle a fly in the WEB ointment. It
would be so nice to have web pages that compensated a measly few
pixels to accommodate a scroll bar. It would also be nice to have a
"bit of marmalade instead. In addition if it is annoying, it is a
bug. After all bugs are annoying! And it not behaving as I wish…
Obviously I am a bit new to this…
Thanks,
John
I have had my fill of I.E. It has alligators!
On Apr 20, 2009, at 5:47 PM, Keith Martin wrote:
Sometime around 20/4/09 (at 16:41 -0400) John Maitland Graves said:
Thanks - I wish they had told us at the outset!
Who?
I do think that it is a bug
From wikipedia:
“A software bug is an error, flaw, mistake, failure, or fault in a
computer program that prevents it from behaving as intended”The behaviour of browsers in this circumstance is logical and
expected, at least when viewed in light of all that goes on and the
logical consequences of this. It isn’t a bug, although it is
perfectly fair to say that it can be a little annoying.there is no technological that the browser people should not be
able to do something about.Heh. May I introduce you to Internet Explorer?
k
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As always, you turned out to be right!
On Apr 20, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Keith Martin wrote:
Sometime around 20/4/09 (at 14:50 -0400) John Maitland Graves said:
GoLive does not do that, and I have hybridized GoLive with Freeway
and did not get that jumping effect.It doesn’t matter what app you use, this effect will appear if the
page content causes scrolling. Try this in GoLive:
Make a centered page with just enough content to show it all
without scrolling in your browser.Now drag the browser window up (only up) so that it it too short
to show all the content. Boing! When the scroll bar appears, the
content shifts to the left.This isn’t anything to do with Freeway, GoLive, Dreamweaver,
BBEdit, Emacs, or whatever other tool you use to build your web
pages, it is simply how browsers work. Page content is centered
within the page area. Scroll bars steal space, leaving slightly less
width for the page - so centered content is repositioned
automatically.I realise that it can be a tad annoying at times, but asking
Softpress or any other developer to ‘fix’ this is like asking the
California governor to cause the sun to rise rather than set over
Big Sur.(Actually, I remember reading about a director, many years ago, who
wanted a beach sunset scene (sun sinking into the sea) but was on
the US East coast. “Simple, we’ll film sunrise and run it
backwards.” But of course the waves went backwards too…)One workaround is to make sure that all your pages have enough
content to need scrolling in any reasonable browser window height.
Then the scrollbar will always be there and no sideways jump will be
seen. But yep, this is a bit of a clunky fix.k
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Sometimes I take no joy in being right. But there are times when we
have to grin and bear it. [sigh]
k
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It would also be nice to have a
"bit of marmalade instead.
I vote for the marmalade! Bugger the web!!! 
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