Hi all,
Have a look at this site: http://www.helinet.se, a nice example how you can do without iframes (if you want to), and make the site faster. But how is it done? Can it be done in freeway? I remember Keith mentioned it earlier this year.
Please spread some light. Sorry if this already has been debated.
Best regards
Ulf
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Have a look at this site: www.helinet.se, a nice example how you can do without iframes (if you want to), and make the site faster
I’m not sure what exactly is happening in this site, but that might just be my lack of experience with the language. Can you elaborate on what I am looking at in this site?
Walter
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Its just a single page, but with different dynamic content driven
into the single central box.
<a href="../includes/../home/index.php?page_id=5"
title=“Välkommen till Helikopters bildbank, extranet och
intranet”>Projektplatser
On 19 Sep 2008, at 14:16, waltd wrote:
Have a look at this site: www.helinet.se, a nice example how you
can do without iframes (if you want to), and make the site fasterI’m not sure what exactly is happening in this site, but that might
just be my lack of experience with the language. Can you elaborate
on what I am looking at in this site?Walter
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Oh, I get it. I was thinking that they were doing something complex. You could do this with WebYep or Expression Engine, or any of a large number of different content management systems. There are Actions for these so you can build the parts in Freeway and have the server assemble them on the fly.
Walter
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Thanks for answers, what actions are involved?
Ulf
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For Expression Engine, there’s the EE Actions from Joe Muscara at Termite Terrace Studio. http://t2studios.com/freeway/more.php?id=76_0_1_0_M
For WebYep, there’s the WY Actions from Max.
http://www.max-izzat.co.uk/actions.html
Both of these require you to purchase a license for the underlying Content Management System.
If you want to get your feet wet on this idea, I would try WebYep first. For one thing, it’s much cheaper; but for another, it’s not nearly as ambitious as EE and you are less likely to get lost in the complexity. That complexity will save your bacon one day, but if you’re just getting started with CMS design, it can be an awfully large first step up the ladder.
Walter
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Hi! DoesWebYep Action Suite
work with FW 5 Pro? The developer stes:
Requirements for the action suite: - Freeway 4 Pro or Freeway Express 4 • WebYep Application.
I am interested in this, but I have FW 5 Pro.
Thanks
Helen
On Sep 19, 2008, at 9:24 AM, waltd wrote:
For Expression Engine, there’s the EE Actions from Joe Muscara at Termite Terrace Studio. <http://t2studios.com/freeway/more.php?id=76_0_1_0_M>
For WebYep, there’s the WY Actions from Max.
<http://www.max-izzat.co.uk/actions.html>Both of these require you to purchase a license for the underlying Content Management System.
If you want to get your feet wet on this idea, I would try WebYep first. For one thing, it’s much cheaper; but for another, it’s not nearly as ambitious as EE and you are less likely to get lost in the complexity. That complexity will save your bacon one day, but if you’re just getting started with CMS design, it can be an awfully large first step up the ladder.
Walter
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Helen, yes WebYep works with FWPro 5 same as it does with FWPro 4.
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Not sure if I want to get my feet wet yet in EE. Firstly I wanted to understand the iframe-function done in CSS and how it cab be done in Freeway.
if you look at the code there is this:
- Startsida
… is that what makes the trick? and in that case - how do I do it in FW?
Ulf
For Expression Engine, there’s the EE Actions from Joe Muscara at Termite Terrace Studio. http://t2studios.com/freeway/more.php?id=76_0_1_0_M
For WebYep, there’s the WY Actions from Max.
http://www.max-izzat.co.uk/actions.htmlBoth of these require you to purchase a license for the underlying Content Management System.
If you want to get your feet wet on this idea, I would try WebYep first. For one thing, it’s much cheaper; but for another, it’s not nearly as ambitious as EE and you are less likely to get lost in the complexity. That complexity will save your bacon one day, but if you’re just getting started with CMS design, it can be an awfully large first step up the ladder.
Walter
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That’s a simple technique known as a querystring variable. When you
request a page from a Web server, the URL can carry more than just
the path to the page you are requesting. In this case, the server is
running the PHP application server, and therefore the page_id
variable is being interpreted from the URL, some decision is being
made within that server, and content is selected based on that value.
You could pass even more through the URL in this manner, as in:
page=1&color=red&foo=bar. Each of these variables (page, color, and
foo) would be available to the server, and an application running on
the server would (presumably) know what to do with them. This is
where EE or any other content management system comes into its own.
But without some sort of application running on the server, you can
pass all the variables in the URL that you want, and nothing much
will happen – shouting in an empty hall.
There’s another thing that needs clearing up here. You ask about the
“iframe-function done in CSS”. The two things are not related.
While you can use CSS to change the general appearance of an iframe
(border, margin, size, position on the page) you don’t use CSS to
create an iframe. It’s a basic (albeit non-strict-standard) HTML
construct. There is an Action for creating an iframe, you simply draw
an instance of that Action on the page, set the style parameters and
the page or site you wish to display within its bounds, and that’s it.
Hope this helps. One thing that would help me in your case is if you
could explain what you’re trying to accomplish here. Do you have a
lot of content that you want to present within a “frame” of non-
changing content? If so, you might want to look at how Master Pages
work in Freeway. You could cut out a lot of duplicate effort using
those, and not need to move into the realm of server-side programming
at all.
Walter
On Sep 21, 2008, at 8:47 AM, Ulf Wigren wrote:
Not sure if I want to get my feet wet yet in EE. Firstly I wanted
to understand the iframe-function done in CSS and how it cab be
done in Freeway.if you look at the code there is this:
- Startsida
… is that what makes the trick? and in that case - how do I do it
in FW?Ulf
For Expression Engine, there’s the EE Actions from Joe Muscara at
Termite Terrace Studio. <tts - freeway actions?
id=76_0_1_0_M>For WebYep, there’s the WY Actions from Max.
http://www.max-izzat.co.uk/actions.htmlBoth of these require you to purchase a license for the underlying
Content Management System.If you want to get your feet wet on this idea, I would try WebYep
first. For one thing, it’s much cheaper; but for another, it’s not
nearly as ambitious as EE and you are less likely to get lost in
the complexity. That complexity will save your bacon one day, but
if you’re just getting started with CMS design, it can be an
awfully large first step up the ladder.Walter
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Thanks Walter,
I am quite familiar with iFrames and use them frequently, but some say they are slow and not modern. This page http://www.helinet.se/home/index.php?page_id=2 seems to load another page within the index page, does it not? and very fast too.
Is it only PHP that makes it fast? What I want to accomplish is same function without iframes as with them and getting all the scores on Google search engine as if there where many single pages.
I know that this is achieved with the site above.
Keith Martin wrote this in January about new Freeway 5, which trigged me:
From: Keith Martin email@hidden
Oh wow, this is so, socool. And using an HTML box to contain multiple ‘child’ objects means it is possible to make actual layouts, not just runs of text, that scroll within their own sections.
Thisisn’t a technique I’d advise everything to do… but it can sometimes be VERY useful. And it means I no longer have to use the iFrame action to do this with multiple pages and no design-stage view of my work.
Standards-friendly, validator-friendly, accessibility-friendly, and search engine-friendly, too.
Things are starting to become apparent… this upgrade is rather more important than some seem to think!
I don’t think he means PHP here. It sounds like it could be done without PHP. (if we forget about how my site example is done.)
Sorry if I have missed something in your answer.
Ulf
That’s a simple technique known as a querystring variable. When you
request a page from a Web server, the URL can carry more than just
the path to the page you are requesting. In this case, the server is
running the PHP application server, and therefore the page_id
variable is being interpreted from the URL, some decision is being
made within that server, and content is selected based on that value.You could pass even more through the URL in this manner, as in:
page=1&color=red&foo=bar. Each of these variables (page, color, and
foo) would be available to the server, and an application running on
the server would (presumably) know what to do with them. This is
where EE or any other content management system comes into its own.But without some sort of application running on the server, you can
pass all the variables in the URL that you want, and nothing much
will happen – shouting in an empty hall.There’s another thing that needs clearing up here. You ask about the
“iframe-function done in CSS”. The two things are not related.
- An iframe is a sub-page element that effectively cuts a window into
your page and shows another Web page within it. It’s similar to a
regular frameset, but useful for more limited things. It can be a
very good trick for certain types of layouts.- CSS is a general styling language, used by modern browsers to
convert the raw content of a page into a coherent visual presentation.While you can use CSS to change the general appearance of an iframe
(border, margin, size, position on the page) you don’t use CSS to
create an iframe. It’s a basic (albeit non-strict-standard) HTML
construct. There is an Action for creating an iframe, you simply draw
an instance of that Action on the page, set the style parameters and
the page or site you wish to display within its bounds, and that’s it.Hope this helps. One thing that would help me in your case is if you
could explain what you’re trying to accomplish here. Do you have a
lot of content that you want to present within a “frame” of non-
changing content? If so, you might want to look at how Master Pages
work in Freeway. You could cut out a lot of duplicate effort using
those, and not need to move into the realm of server-side programming
at all.Walter
On Sep 21, 2008, at 8:47 AM, Ulf Wigren wrote:
Not sure if I want to get my feet wet yet in EE. Firstly I wanted
to understand the iframe-function done in CSS and how it cab be
done in Freeway.if you look at the code there is this:
Startsida … is that what makes the trick? and in that case - how do I do it
in FW?Ulf
For Expression Engine, there’s the EE Actions from Joe Muscara at
Termite Terrace Studio. <tts - freeway actions?
id=76_0_1_0_M>For WebYep, there’s the WY Actions from Max.
http://www.max-izzat.co.uk/actions.htmlBoth of these require you to purchase a license for the underlying
Content Management System.If you want to get your feet wet on this idea, I would try WebYep
first. For one thing, it’s much cheaper; but for another, it’s not
nearly as ambitious as EE and you are less likely to get lost in
the complexity. That complexity will save your bacon one day, but
if you’re just getting started with CMS design, it can be an
awfully large first step up the ladder.Walter
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Okay, I’ve taken another look at the page you linked to.
On Sep 23, 2008, at 7:24 AM, Ulf Wigren wrote:
Thanks Walter,
I am quite familiar with iFrames and use them frequently, but some
say they are slow and not modern.
iframes are a way to show another page within the context of a
“container” page. That’s all they are. They are somewhere between
modern and old-school. They are definitely not valid XHTML Strict,
but you can use them in any Transitional doctype. They are no faster
or slower than the content they load. And it’s important to note that
the contents of an iframe will never be indexed as a part of your
page by a search engine. It will be indexed, but as a separate page,
and will not count toward the content of your site.
This page http://www.helinet.se/home/index.php?page_id=2 seems to
load another page within the index page, does it not? and very fast
too.
This site appears to be using a content management system. There’s no
telling which one, it might be a home-grown system – that would seem
to fit in with the rest of the site. What this system is loading is
one of a number of page fragments. While an iframe can load an
entire page, you cannot load an entire page as partial content within
another page. This would end up with an invalid and likely un-
viewable page. So while a regular page would have the full stack:
HTML
HEAD
/HEAD
BODY
DIV
/DIV
/BODY
/HTML
…a fragment might only be a single DIV.
DIV
some variable content here
/DIV
This particular page seems to be loading the variable content
fragment into a DIV named ‘content’. This DIV has its overflow set to
“auto”, which causes it to get scroll bars (like an iframe) whenever
the content overflows the dimensions of the DIV.
Is it only PHP that makes it fast? What I want to accomplish is
same function without iframes as with them and getting all the
scores on Google search engine as if there where many single pages.
What makes this fast is the fact that instead of loading a single
page then calling from it to other pages on other servers, this site
is taking a request from the browser that includes a querystring
variable, using the value of that variable to decide which content
snippet to pull from a database or a text file, assembling the entire
thing on the server, and sending it down the wire as a single page.
PHP is used to do this, but there are lots of other programming
languages, and they would be equally speedy and certainly would out-
shine an iframe-based solution, particularly if the content resided
on more than one server. As I noted above, the contents of iframes
are indexed as separate pages, and if they are a part of a separate
site, they do not get counted as part of your site.
There is a technique known as screen-scraping which allows you to
gather content from someone else’s site, strip it down to just the
part you want to show, and then cache that locally on your server so
you don’t have to go through all that more than once a day or so.
Various screen-scraping code examples exist in almost any server-side
language, you can find more at HotScripts and other similar code
repository sites. But I don’t think (from this example, anyway) that
you are trying to do this.
I know that this is achieved with the site above.
If you are trying to manage a site by breaking the content area from
a surrounding template, then again, I recommend you look at how
Master Pages work in Freeway. Because none of this server-side stuff
will be even remotely as fast as serving a single page from static
HTML. Apache (the Web server) is simply too well tuned and optimized
for any dynamic server-side concoction to compete.
If you are looking to gather content from another site (one which you
do not control) then look to see if that site includes an RSS feed.
Reading and re-presenting an RSS feed is not only more likely to be
legal than scraping HTML from that site, it also is a really well-
solved problem, due to the fact that RSS is a stricter (and simpler)
document type than HTML.
Walter
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Thanks again,
The easiest and fastest way for me, probably is to use Master Pages,
although it’s not so maintenance friendly as iFrames as far as my
experience goes.
Apart from being indexed by a search engines, I think pages without
frames are easier to design since you always can see the whole page
at a glance in Freeway.
Ulf
Okay, I’ve taken another look at the page you linked to.
On Sep 23, 2008, at 7:24 AM, Ulf Wigren wrote:
Thanks Walter,
I am quite familiar with iFrames and use them frequently, but some
say they are slow and not modern.iframes are a way to show another page within the context of a
“container” page. That’s all they are. They are somewhere between
modern and old-school. They are definitely not valid XHTML Strict,
but you can use them in any Transitional doctype. They are no faster
or slower than the content they load. And it’s important to note that
the contents of an iframe will never be indexed as a part of your
page by a search engine. It will be indexed, but as a separate page,
and will not count toward the content of your site.This page http://www.helinet.se/home/index.php?page_id=2 seems to
load another page within the index page, does it not? and very fast
too.This site appears to be using a content management system. There’s no
telling which one, it might be a home-grown system – that would seem
to fit in with the rest of the site. What this system is loading is
one of a number of page fragments. While an iframe can load an
entire page, you cannot load an entire page as partial content within
another page. This would end up with an invalid and likely un-
viewable page. So while a regular page would have the full stack:HTML HEAD /HEAD BODY DIV /DIV /BODY /HTML…a fragment might only be a single DIV.
DIV some variable content here /DIVThis particular page seems to be loading the variable content
fragment into a DIV named ‘content’. This DIV has its overflow set to
“auto”, which causes it to get scroll bars (like an iframe) whenever
the content overflows the dimensions of the DIV.Is it only PHP that makes it fast? What I want to accomplish is
same function without iframes as with them and getting all the
scores on Google search engine as if there where many single pages.What makes this fast is the fact that instead of loading a single
page then calling from it to other pages on other servers, this site
is taking a request from the browser that includes a querystring
variable, using the value of that variable to decide which content
snippet to pull from a database or a text file, assembling the entire
thing on the server, and sending it down the wire as a single page.
PHP is used to do this, but there are lots of other programming
languages, and they would be equally speedy and certainly would out-
shine an iframe-based solution, particularly if the content resided
on more than one server. As I noted above, the contents of iframes
are indexed as separate pages, and if they are a part of a separate
site, they do not get counted as part of your site.There is a technique known as screen-scraping which allows you to
gather content from someone else’s site, strip it down to just the
part you want to show, and then cache that locally on your server so
you don’t have to go through all that more than once a day or so.
Various screen-scraping code examples exist in almost any server-side
language, you can find more at HotScripts and other similar code
repository sites. But I don’t think (from this example, anyway) that
you are trying to do this.I know that this is achieved with the site above.
If you are trying to manage a site by breaking the content area from
a surrounding template, then again, I recommend you look at how
Master Pages work in Freeway. Because none of this server-side stuff
will be even remotely as fast as serving a single page from static
HTML. Apache (the Web server) is simply too well tuned and optimized
for any dynamic server-side concoction to compete.If you are looking to gather content from another site (one which you
do not control) then look to see if that site includes an RSS feed.
Reading and re-presenting an RSS feed is not only more likely to be
legal than scraping HTML from that site, it also is a really well-
solved problem, due to the fact that RSS is a stricter (and simpler)
document type than HTML.Walter
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Try this:
Design a basic page, make sure you put everything on it so that your
page is absolutely complete. Now make it a Master Page: Page > Make
Master. On that master page, delete the content from the central area
(or wherever) that you plan to make different on each child page. Now
make a bunch of instances of that page and add back the content for
each.
The only thing you will need to do, maintenance-wise, is to be aware
of what’s in the Master and what’s in the child. You can even lock
all the content on the Master page. That way you won’t accidentally
“detach” something from its parent.
Now when you make a bunch of changes within the designated content
area, you should be able to update very easily. Believe me, it’s a
lot less hassle than worrying about the styles for each variable
content area, making sure that Freeway publishes everything you need
to make your page fragments work properly (rollovers are particularly
awful for this), etc.
It’s less work to swim downstream!
Walter
On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Ulf Wigren wrote:
The easiest and fastest way for me, probably is to use Master Pages,
although it’s not so maintenance friendly as iFrames as far as my
experience goes.
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You hit the head of the nail there as we say in Sweden, I’m sure you
have a similar expression, but anyway I often have had the feeling of
swimming upstream using iframes.
I realized a while ago that single pages are just as fast since
images and objects are not loaded more than once to the user. (hope
I’m right there)
Thanks again
Ulf
Try this:
Design a basic page, make sure you put everything on it so that your
page is absolutely complete. Now make it a Master Page: Page > Make
Master. On that master page, delete the content from the central area
(or wherever) that you plan to make different on each child page. Now
make a bunch of instances of that page and add back the content for
each.The only thing you will need to do, maintenance-wise, is to be aware
of what’s in the Master and what’s in the child. You can even lock
all the content on the Master page. That way you won’t accidentally
“detach” something from its parent.Now when you make a bunch of changes within the designated content
area, you should be able to update very easily. Believe me, it’s a
lot less hassle than worrying about the styles for each variable
content area, making sure that Freeway publishes everything you need
to make your page fragments work properly (rollovers are particularly
awful for this), etc.It’s less work to swim downstream!
Walter
On Sep 23, 2008, at 10:19 AM, Ulf Wigren wrote:
The easiest and fastest way for me, probably is to use Master Pages,
although it’s not so maintenance friendly as iFrames as far as my
experience goes.
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On 23 Sep 2008, at 17:00, Ulf Wigren wrote:
You hit the head of the nail there as we say in Sweden, I’m sure you
have a similar expression
Yep, exactly the same one 
best wishes,
Paul Bradforth
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