Last desperate call for help

I think I have faulty software. This applications cannot be this hard to use. I persists in doing things that are simply not covered in the manual.

What I find badly lacking is a step-by-step – let’s build a site-style – tutorial. The only ones I see are the short ones with the kindly British host with Wallace and Gromit music playing. Is there anything more robust? I am following those tutorial point-by-point but still bumping into one problem after another, and it has now been eight months since I bought the software and have yet to product a single working page.

I have bought the full manual, and while it is topical, it is not sequential in content. As well, it still does not cover the problems I am having.


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Could you post some examples of what you’re talking about? I (for one)
have been using this software since 1997 without problems. While it is
entirely possible that you got a corrupt download, I doubt very much
if it would run at all in that case, as opposed to running but giving
inconsistent results.

Try writing this as if it was a bug report:

  1. Draw a graphic box on the page, fill it with a solid color.
  2. Turn my back.
  3. Box turns into a kitten, meows plaintively and pads off the page to
    the right.

Walter

On Jun 27, 2009, at 9:47 PM, SkipII wrote:

I think I have faulty software. This applications cannot be this
hard to use. I persists in doing things that are simply not covered
in the manual.


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???


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If you want help, ask a question. Don’t say “It doesn’t work”, since
for over ten years it has “worked” for countless thousands of
professional users.

You need to explain what you are expecting, what you are doing, and
what happens when you do it, in steps. That’s all.

Anyone who comes to this (or any other) application brings a set of
expectations with them. Like Aesop’s blind men and the elephant, each
person’s impression of the application is founded in their own
expectations and personal experience. You may be expecting this to be
an HTML editor, in the mold of BBEdit or Dreamweaver. Which it
decidedly is not.

Walter

On Jun 28, 2009, at 8:36 AM, SkipII wrote:

???


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On 28 Jun 2009, at 13:23, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

Try writing this as if it was a bug report:

  1. Draw a graphic box on the page, fill it with a solid color.
  2. Turn my back.
  3. Box turns into a kitten, meows plaintively and pads off the page
    to the right.

Damn, I get that all the time, but what do you DO about it?

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


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I understand that. I also have tried very hard to describe what I am facing.

Here is a current list:

  1. I cannot get the rollover actions to show the individual elements. Only the grouped item shows up in the actions box. I followed the tutorial precisely: drew items. aligned them, grouped them, locked them individually, clicked on the grouped item on the list menu, went to actions>rollover, but only the grouped item shows up. This is exactly how it says to do it in the tutorial but I do not get the individual items in the box so I can select their role in the rollover sequence. I even clicked layer - even though I have yet to understand what a layer does but that was suggested before by someone – and that does not show the individual items either.

  2. Without having done anything differently, I now have faded blue rectangles with blue triangles in the corners showing up on text boxes or graphics I had drawn earlier. They seem to be offset from the original graphic or text box. I cannot seem to ungroup them or delete them. I don’t what they are. Best I can describe. Please appreciate that the manuals never show a simple listing of all these colored lines, corner triangles, etc, so you can understand what they are. They are buried in a 500-page narrative.

  3. Also, without having done anything differently, text boxes and graphic boxes that I had placed over a background graphic are – best I can describe – “cutting through” the background graphic, exposing the colored background underneath. They were displaying fine before.

Thanks for your patience. that is the best I can describe what is happening.


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An image placed on the page is not the same thing as a background
image. If you use the Page Inspector to apply a background image to
your page or to a layered HTML box, then that is a true background
image, and it will behave differently than a regular picture in a box
on the page. A background image will “shine through” any transparent
object above it, no matter what sort of object that might be.

If you place a regular graphic item behind a non-layered HTML box,
that HTML box will cut a hole through the image behind it. A layered
HTML box (look in the left-most tab of the Inspector, near the top for
a checkbox labeled “Layer”) will always interact with other elements
as if it was truly transparent, unless you apply a solid background
color to it.

Walter

On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:16 AM, SkipII wrote:

  1. Also, without having done anything differently, text boxes and
    graphic boxes that I had placed over a background graphic are –
    best I can describe – “cutting through” the background graphic,
    exposing the colored background underneath. They were displaying
    fine before.

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These may be the outlines of grouped elements. Do they describe the
smallest box you could draw around two or more other objects on the
page? The diagonal corners indicate that these are layered objects.
You can turn their display off using the View : Outlines option in the
main menu, but I recommend you leave them on so you can see they are
there.

Walter

On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:16 AM, SkipII wrote:

  1. Without having done anything differently, I now have faded blue
    rectangles with blue triangles in the corners showing up on text
    boxes or graphics I had drawn earlier. They seem to be offset from
    the original graphic or text box. I cannot seem to ungroup them or
    delete them. I don’t what they are. Best I can describe. Please
    appreciate that the manuals never show a simple listing of all these
    colored lines, corner triangles, etc, so you can understand what
    they are. They are buried in a 500-page narrative.

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It sounds like you may have drawn these items with the CSS Layers
button turned off. Layered objects have to be grouped in order to
create a rollover. Non-layered objects don’t. Click on the group of
elements, and choose Ungroup from the main menu. Then click elsewhere,
and then back on the top element in your rollover “stack”. Try
applying the action then. Or, drag the top element off of the bottom
one, check the Layer checkbox for each one, then move them back into
alignment, group them, and carry on from there.

Walter

On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:16 AM, SkipII wrote:

  1. I cannot get the rollover actions to show the individual
    elements. Only the grouped item shows up in the actions box. I
    followed the tutorial precisely: drew items. aligned them, grouped
    them, locked them individually, clicked on the grouped item on the
    list menu, went to actions>rollover, but only the grouped item shows
    up. This is exactly how it says to do it in the tutorial but I do
    not get the individual items in the box so I can select their role
    in the rollover sequence. I even clicked layer - even though I have
    yet to understand what a layer does but that was suggested before by
    someone – and that does not show the individual items either.

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Trying my best to describe and use proper terminology…

I put a background color on the site page using the Inpector. Let’s just call that color “gray.”

I then, following instructions by Freeway, drew a graphic box covering the bottom half of my page and imported a background graphic (happens to be a color, lets just say yellow).

I them draw a text box and inserted that over the yellow area. It displayed fine. At some point, without me knowingly doing anything to it, it now does not display properly. The gray base background color is showing through the yellow graphic inside the borders of the text box.

I sitll do not understand layers, but if that is a factor, I am not given the option of clikcing “layer” on either the yellow graphic area or the et box.

As well, and this may be causul or coincidental, there is a light blue outline box that has appeared to the right of the text box. It has blue triangles in its corners. I have no idea what that is.


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They do not show in the drop down as being grouped items. They go away when I lick off “show outlines” in View, but, as you said, I would prefer not to subdue them until I know what they are or if they are the cause of a problem.
They do not seem related to any other elements on the page. They move if I move the individual graphic they are attached to. They are offset to the right and slightly down from the graphic.

On 28 Jun 2009, 1:28 pm, waltd wrote:

These may be the outlines of grouped elements. Do they describe the
smallest box you could draw around two or more other objects on the
page? The diagonal corners indicate that these are layered objects.
You can turn their display off using the View : Outlines option in the
main menu, but I recommend you leave them on so you can see they are
there.

Walter

On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:16 AM, SkipII wrote:

  1. Without having done anything differently, I now have faded blue
    rectangles with blue triangles in the corners showing up on text
    boxes or graphics I had drawn earlier. They seem to be offset from
    the original graphic or text box. I cannot seem to ungroup them or
    delete them. I don’t what they are. Best I can describe. Please
    appreciate that the manuals never show a simple listing of all these
    colored lines, corner triangles, etc, so you can understand what
    they are. They are buried in a 500-page narrative.

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Sorry, I do not understand your note.

I am not TRYING to do anything differently than is described in the tutorials. So, for example, if I did somehow draw these with the CCS layers off, I would prefer to go back and do it right, rather than adapt what I have. I am totally baffled on layers, even having read the reference guide on this topic. All I understand is that layers allow me to place graphic items opn top of one another with screwing them up.

Meantime, there is nothing in the tutorial about drawing my rollover elements with layers on or off and I do not even consciously know how to do that anyway. All I know is that my CSS layers button on the menu bar is blue and has never been switched. Is that what you mean?

Back to your note…

What do you men “drag the top element off of the bottom one?”

On 28 Jun 2009, 1:31 pm, waltd wrote:

It sounds like you may have drawn these items with the CSS Layers
button turned off. Layered objects have to be grouped in order to
create a rollover. Non-layered objects don’t. Click on the group of
elements, and choose Ungroup from the main menu. Then click elsewhere,
and then back on the top element in your rollover “stack”. Try
applying the action then. Or, drag the top element off of the bottom
one, check the Layer checkbox for each one, then move them back into
alignment, group them, and carry on from there.

Walter

On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:16 AM, SkipII wrote:

  1. I cannot get the rollover actions to show the individual
    elements. Only the grouped item shows up in the actions box. I
    followed the tutorial precisely: drew items. aligned them, grouped
    them, locked them individually, clicked on the grouped item on the
    list menu, went to actions>rollover, but only the grouped item shows
    up. This is exactly how it says to do it in the tutorial but I do
    not get the individual items in the box so I can select their role
    in the rollover sequence. I even clicked layer - even though I have
    yet to understand what a layer does but that was suggested before by
    someone – and that does not show the individual items either.

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On 28 Jun 2009, 1:37 pm, SkipII wrote:

Trying my best to describe and use proper terminology…

I put a background color on the site page using the Inpector. Let’s just call that color “gray.”

I then, following instructions by Freeway, drew a graphic box covering the bottom half of my page and imported a background graphic (happens to be a color, lets just say yellow).

I them draw a text box and inserted that over the yellow area. It displayed fine. At some point, without me knowingly doing anything to it, it now does not display properly. The gray base background color is showing through the yellow graphic inside the borders of the text box.

If you draw an image on the page, then by definition that’s not a background image. It’s a regular “foreground” element, and they do behave the way you describe. As to the cut out bits suddenly appearing, did you change font size in your browser, perhaps? That could cause a hole to open in a layout like this. If the image was actually a background image, then it wouldn’t matter.

Note also that you can set both a background color and a background image. That may be the way to get the kaput you want with less pain.

Walter


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Nope. I tried it both ways – with layer button on and off. I even tried to click select the individual items and then go to Actions>Rollover, but the Actions butdrop down is subdued.


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I do not understand your note on the images cutting through the background.

I did not do anything. One minute they “worked,” the next they didn’t.

I have a background color and, yes, and foreground image. So the question is: “How do I then put another image on top of all that without it “cutting through” the foreground image underneath of it?”

On 28 Jun 2009, 1:53 pm, waltd wrote:

On 28 Jun 2009, 1:37 pm, SkipII wrote:

Trying my best to describe and use proper terminology…

I put a background color on the site page using the Inpector. Let’s just call that color “gray.”

I then, following instructions by Freeway, drew a graphic box covering the bottom half of my page and imported a background graphic (happens to be a color, lets just say yellow).

I them draw a text box and inserted that over the yellow area. It displayed fine. At some point, without me knowingly doing anything to it, it now does not display properly. The gray base background color is showing through the yellow graphic inside the borders of the text box.

If you draw an image on the page, then by definition that’s not a background image. It’s a regular “foreground” element, and they do behave the way you describe. As to the cut out bits suddenly appearing, did you change font size in your browser, perhaps? That could cause a hole to open in a layout like this. If the image was actually a background image, then it wouldn’t matter.

Note also that you can set both a background color and a background image. That may be the way to get the kaput you want with less pain.

Walter


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If you want two images to overlap, then you have to make sure they are both layers.

Walter


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Thank you.

I went through the tutorial again in three different places on Freeway and it never says to make sure the items in a rollover are layered.

Still, that was not the problem. By process of elimination I discovered that some of my elements were “combined”; others not. Buy clicking “combine graphics” on all of the rollover elements in the group, I got them all to show up in the actions box.

sigh…this is my frustration with Freeway. This was not described anywhere.


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How do I put a graphic element on top of another one (the foreground color) without it “cutting through” to the background color? I have looked and it does not appear I have the option of choosing to layer a new item – the click box does not appear in the Inspector.


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What HTML Level is your page set to? Click on the pasteboard of your
page, then click on the output tab of the Page Inspector (looks like a
little newspaper page) and look at the HTML picker at the very top of
the Inspector.

If it’s set to HTML 4 or higher, then the only kind of element you
will not be able to “layer” is an inline image. And those are made in
a completely different manner – you double-click the parent element
until you see a flashing text cursor, place that cursor where you want
the image to be included, and select Insert > Graphic Item from the
main menu. You don’t seem to have done that.

If your page is set to HTML 3.2, then you will not be able to make any
layered items.

And if you changed this setting at one point between designing the
page and now, that might account for your page going haywire the way
you describe. Try changing it to HTML 4.01 (either Transitional or
Strict) and see if anything changes.

Walter

On Jun 28, 2009, at 11:45 AM, SkipII wrote:

How do I put a graphic element on top of another one (the foreground
color) without it “cutting through” to the background color? I have
looked and it does not appear I have the option of choosing to layer
a new item – the click box does not appear in the Inspector.


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Walter,

I am set for 4.0 Transitional and have never changed it.

I am not clear from your note what is an “in-line” image. All the instructions that follow in your second paragraph about the parent element and flashing icon – is that something I am supposed to do with all graphic elements in 4.0 transition or just for these mysterious “in-line” images." What is an in-line image?

To keep this simple, rather than debug things that may not matter to me right now, I simply want to paste text boxes and graphics over my foreground color without those graphic boxes cutting through to the background color. How do I do that – especially when, to this point, I do not see any option to “later” those items, and am unclear whether I even need to do that. The tutorial says nothing about the need to layer an item over a foreground color.


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