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Guys, I for one am rather disappointed in this change. I NEVER EVER use email with this list and always just browsed for new content. This is inferior in my opinion from a browsing stand point as there is less information.
I do appreciate the hard work required to start something new…but this is not an improvement for me.
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You don’t need to use email, it’s optional, you can still interact
via the web interface like it used to be.
Todd
On Oct 24, 2007, at 1:47 PM, chuckamuck wrote:
Guys, I for one am rather disappointed in this change. I NEVER EVER
use email with this list and always just browsed for new content.
This is inferior in my opinion from a browsing stand point as there
is less information.I do appreciate the hard work required to start something
new…but this is not an improvement for me.
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Can you elaborate? Email is not required for any purpose, you can
browse to your heart’s content without ever getting a single message!
Walter
On Oct 24, 2007, at 2:47 PM, chuckamuck wrote:
Guys, I for one am rather disappointed in this change. I NEVER EVER
use email with this list and always just browsed for new content.
This is inferior in my opinion from a browsing stand point as there
is less information.I do appreciate the hard work required to start something
new…but this is not an improvement for me.
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Can you elaborate about what information you are missing in the new
view?
Walter
On Oct 24, 2007, at 2:47 PM, chuckamuck wrote:
This is inferior in my opinion from a browsing stand point as there
is less information.
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The reference to the email is in regard to the issues people have had here with spurious emails sent from auto replies, which I have experienced also frankly. I understand wanting to eliminate this and I assume the change is partly to achieve that, no?
Sorry, I just like the form of the other site better. Call it personal taste if you like.
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That’s fine, and understood. But if the new forum is missing
something in particular, I’d like to hear about it in detail. This is
version 1.0, and it’s only seen a limited amount of user testing by a
small group of people. Changes can and will be made in the future.
Walter
On Oct 24, 2007, at 3:09 PM, chuckamuck wrote:
Sorry, I just like the form of the other site better. Call it
personal taste if you like.
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I think the main thing I miss is not having a link to the newest reply without having to scan through all the earlier ones. As it stands, I now have to scroll to the bottom of the page to find it.
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Okay, that’s easily added, and something that is on the list for 1.1.
But understand that needing to scan through the replies is essential
if you want to know what the replies have been so far. This was a
design decision, made deliberately.
Walter
On Oct 24, 2007, at 3:13 PM, chuckamuck wrote:
I think the main thing I miss is not having a link to the newest
reply without having to scan through all the earlier ones. As it
stands, I now have to scroll to the bottom of the page to find it.
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The old system grudgingly supported mail, through the use of a third-
party plug-in. The mail aspect was quite hackish, and when it worked,
it only sort of worked.
Now this is important because of where the content comes from. It
turns out that an overwhelming number of the posts – particularly
the answers – were sent by a relative minority of the forum
subscribers. And of those, nearly all were using the mail-only
subscription mode. So it made sense to cater to the mail users big-
time in this redesign.
The new system is based on GNU Mailman, which is pretty much the
industry standard for mailing lists. The Web view is designed to
present the mailing list as a forum, not the other way around. Each
message posted to the list is read into a database, and organized in
a forum (topic/thread) model for display on the Web.
Mailman has robust bounce-processing and I’m-on-vacation-message
removal filters, and is generally the bee’s knees as far as keeping
the mail users happy. Apple uses it for all of their many mailing
lists, and those are some tough people to keep happy, believe me!
And if you have subscribed with mail turned off, you won’t have to
worry about that at all, because it will just never send you anything
in the mail. (Except maybe some administrative messages once in a
while.)
Walter
On Oct 24, 2007, at 3:09 PM, chuckamuck wrote:
The reference to the email is in regard to the issues people have
had here with spurious emails sent from auto replies, which I have
experienced also frankly. I understand wanting to eliminate this
and I assume the change is partly to achieve that, no?
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Yes but if you have already read the previous thread and only need to see later responses then this is less efficient.
There is another issue with reading previous thread for subject… It is non existent that I can see. There is a thread here with no subject from Tim that was resurrected from earlier thread. Just looking at the thread heading there is no way to tell what it’s about without reading the whole thread.
On 24 Oct. 2007, 3:18 pm, waltd wrote:
But understand that needing to scan through the replies is essential
if you want to know what the replies have been so far. This was a
design decision, made deliberately.
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I had noticed that, and will have to see if I can sort it out. This
is a boundary problem, caused by the transition between systems. As
we move forward to all new content created in the new system, that
problem will disappear.
Walter
On Oct 24, 2007, at 3:25 PM, chuckamuck wrote:
Yes but if you have already read the previous thread and only need
to see later responses then this is less efficient.There is another issue with reading previous thread for subject…
It is non existent that I can see. There is a thread here with no
subject from Tim that was resurrected from earlier thread. Just
looking at the thread heading there is no way to tell what it’s
about without reading the whole thread.On 24 Oct. 2007, 3:18 pm, waltd wrote:
But understand that needing to scan through the replies is essential
if you want to know what the replies have been so far. This was a
design decision, made deliberately.
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Ok, another issue…
It appears there is no way to target a specific reply to quote, only All or Last. As a result I can’t target your last reply as a quote.
Your reply underlines my point
The Web view is designed to
present the mailing list as a forum, not the other way around.
and…
It
turns out that an overwhelming number of the posts — particularly
the answers — were sent by a relative minority of the forum
subscribers.
Great for the few…now the many have to conform.
Walt, thanks for doing a great job, I like the new GUI, much cleaner and easier on the eye than the previous one. I’m sure the small bugs will be ironed out in the future but for now I’m impressed. Only thing I see is it looks like the posts from Oct 23 is missing.
Thanks
Marcel
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More…
There is no longer an “edit” button which would allow the message poster to alter or correct a just posted message without starting another post.
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How do you edit an e-mail that you already sent?
One system that I work with (Basecamp) gets around this by delaying
the mailing of comments for 15 minutes. During that 15 minute
window, you can edit the post. You make your comment, see it on the
Web, change your mind and want to re-word something, click the edit
link… But after it’s been mailed, that’s it.
I understand their design decision, but I wonder if it breaks the
fluidity of the medium to have your send throttled back like that.
What do you think? Can you suggest a way to do this, given the
constraints in hand?
Walter
On Oct 24, 2007, at 3:46 PM, chuckamuck wrote:
More…
There is no longer an “edit” button which would allow the message
poster to alter or correct a just posted message without starting
another post.
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In which forum?
Walter
On Oct 24, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Helveticus wrote:
Only thing I see is it looks like the posts from Oct 23 is missing.
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I feel it would really help to have the user of the last post along with the user who started the post.
Is this a possibility?
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I just made a post before my last with a list of different problems and a couple of questions, I was told the post was made by the app and then a ‘Mail failure’ arrived, the problem reported was: ‘A message that you sent contained no recipient addresses, and therefore no
delivery could be attempted’
The post has not appeared on the tread!
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On 24 Oct 2007, at 20:34, chuckamuck wrote:
Great for the few…now the many have to conform.
Chuck,
Unfortunately, without the few there would be much less of a
community and the forum’s usefulness would be much diminished. If you
have any constructive feedback about how the web interface (which is
a fairly new development anyway in the history of the FreewayTalk
list) could be improved, please tell us.
Originally, there was only mail. With phpBB, there was web (which was
quite usable but ugly as sin) and e-mail (which was severely flawed
in many ways). We are confident that the new system provides a good
interface for both web and e-mail. I personally think it’s a lot
easier on the eyes, and while there are still a few rough edges, I
have to say that as someone with intimate knowledge of the gnarly
internals of both systems I have to say I think we’re in a much
better position than we were before.
– Finlay
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