[Pro] CSS in menus not overriding

Tried to use a tutorial and examples gleaned from the forum here to create CSS menus by hand, with Styles. They seem to work well, except that in both Firefox and Safari for Mac, the links are showing in browser-standard “blue-for-link” and “green-for-visited.”

Note that in my browsers, I have the prefs set to use colors, etc. of visited pages. But this brings up a point about using CSS text for menus. Namely, will the CSS styling always override the visitor’s preferences?

And if not, do we care? If it doesn’t, what’s the point of trying to style CSS menus? What am I missing here?Interesting.

(It’s also handy editing the menu in FW when it’s all text!)

I’m posting a test site at http://luckypro.biz/client/walter/v7/ I’ll be replacing pages as I get more stuff done, but could someone give me a hint as to why my CSS menus don’t override the browser?

Thanks a million for any thoughts.


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Well, this just shows to go ya two things.

  1. I have just enough knowledge here to be dangerous.

  2. Good ol’ FW is being too helpful again.

So, I’ve got a CSS HTML layer DIV on my master page. Into this layerdiv I’ve typed some text. Three of the four lines have the Style .navlist applied to them. Styled nicely, all is cool and froody.

I apply a link to one of the lines of text, using the Edit Hyperlink modal dialog. “OK” the dialog and whammo, the text link is now blue and underlined. Man this makes me feel stupid.

However, the Page Tab and the item Tab both have nothing chosen in the Links sections. I can’t find any way to prevent FW from “hyperlink styling” the text in my menu.

Do I have to set the links styling to be the same as what I’ve set up in my navlist styles? That seems pretty tortuous.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


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Hi Bucky,

The color is applied to the paragraph, and not the anchor inside it.
Try changing your “.navlist” style to “.navlist a”.

Joe

On 14 Oct 2009, at 21:46, Bucky Edgett wrote:

Well, this just shows to go ya two things.

  1. I have just enough knowledge here to be dangerous.

  2. Good ol’ FW is being too helpful again.

So, I’ve got a CSS HTML layer DIV on my master page. Into this
layerdiv I’ve typed some text. Three of the four lines have the
Style .navlist applied to them. Styled nicely, all is cool and froody.

I apply a link to one of the lines of text, using the Edit Hyperlink
modal dialog. “OK” the dialog and whammo, the text link is now blue
and underlined. Man this makes me feel stupid.

However, the Page Tab and the item Tab both have nothing chosen in
the Links sections. I can’t find any way to prevent FW from
“hyperlink styling” the text in my menu.

Do I have to set the links styling to be the same as what I’ve set
up in my navlist styles? That seems pretty tortuous.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.


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Trying to follow the tutorial “Styling a Vertical Nav Menu” posted by Ernie a while ago. So there already is a “.navlist a” style in my document, along with “.navlist li” and .navlist a:hover".

“.navlist a” has a few properties:
a background color chosen in the modal dialog;
display:block, text-padding:3px 3px 3px 10px, text-decoration:none; all created in the Extended dialog.

I’m not clear on the purpose of your distinction between “paragraph” and “anchor inside it.” My CSS menu is all paragraphs. Most of them are single words, two have two words each. But in both cases, the whole paragraph comprises the anchor/link.

However, if as a test I apply an anchor/link to one word in either of the two word paragraphs, FW applies its default blue color and underline to the single word. That seems to belie the idea that the unwanted FW styling is applied “to the paragraph.” Note this is the case if I remove the anchor/link from one word of a two word paragraph of the menu on an actual page: the other word remains colored and underlined.

And, as a test, if I select the menu item on the master page, and use the Inspector Palette’s Item Appearance Settings (Screwdriver?) tab to apply my wanted color to Links, the unwanted blue color is defeated.

That’s a workaround. But no one I can search here has mentioned this unwanted default styling being applied to their CSS Menus, so I wondered if there’s something basic I might be doing wrong when setting up and applying my hand-created navlist Styles.

Thanks for checking on this.


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Hi Bucky,

In that case, try adding the color to the “.navlist a” style. the
trouble with it previously was that the default anchor color (blue)
was overriding the color applied to the paragraph. Giving “.navlist a”
a color will override the default color.

Hope this helps.

Joe

On 15 Oct 2009, at 13:46, Bucky Edgett wrote:

Trying to follow the tutorial “Styling a Vertical Nav Menu” posted
by Ernie a while ago. So there already is a “.navlist a” style in my
document, along with “.navlist li” and .navlist a:hover".

“.navlist a” has a few properties:
a background color chosen in the modal dialog;
display:block, text-padding:3px 3px 3px 10px, text-decoration:none;
all created in the Extended dialog.

I’m not clear on the purpose of your distinction between “paragraph”
and “anchor inside it.” My CSS menu is all paragraphs. Most of them
are single words, two have two words each. But in both cases, the
whole paragraph comprises the anchor/link.

However, if as a test I apply an anchor/link to one word in either
of the two word paragraphs, FW applies its default blue color and
underline to the single word. That seems to belie the idea that
the unwanted FW styling is applied “to the paragraph.” Note this is
the case if I remove the anchor/link from one word of a two word
paragraph of the menu on an actual page: the other word remains
colored and underlined.

And, as a test, if I select the menu item on the master page, and
use the Inspector Palette’s Item Appearance Settings (Screwdriver?)
tab to apply my wanted color to Links, the unwanted blue color is
defeated.

That’s a workaround. But no one I can search here has mentioned this
unwanted default styling being applied to their CSS Menus, so I
wondered if there’s something basic I might be doing wrong when
setting up and applying my hand-created navlist Styles.

Thanks for checking on this.


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OK, there is indeed something seriously wrong with my styling. I don’t have lists!

All I have is a layer with a bunch of paragraphs. OK. back to the drawing board.

But it looks good, and seems to work in Firefox. Blahhh.


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Even so, the list style in your stylesheet just stops them from
looking like lists – that’s not the reason the color is wrong. But I
agree, lists would be better :wink:

Joe

On 15 Oct 2009, at 14:43, Bucky Edgett wrote:

OK, there is indeed something seriously wrong with my styling. I
don’t have lists!

All I have is a layer with a bunch of paragraphs. OK. back to the
drawing board.

But it looks good, and seems to work in Firefox. Blahhh.


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OK, Joe, you got me that time. Had to chuckle at “lists would be better.” Indeed.

Well, this is maddening. The only way I can get FW to make my text act and publish as a true ul list is to apply the Indent by hand using the arrows in the Inspector Palette.

I’ve got, per tutorial instructions, a non-tag Style “navlist.” As a test, I’ve made a Style “justalist.” In both, I’ve used the Paragraph level in the Styles Palette to add supposed List properties: Default, Round Bullets, a few others as tests.

Create an HTML Item, type in some text with paragraph returns, use the Text Tab in the Styles palette to supposedly apply one then, as a test, another of my supposed List styles. No list. No bullets, no squares, nothing.

The only way to get the text to be a list is to manually apply an indent with the Inspector Palette. I feel like a Compleat Idiot. What could I possibly be doing wrong? This seems like it should be simple! Make a Style, add List property to it, apply the Style to text, right? Or not?

FW 5.4.1, 5.4.2, by the way. Says the Idiot.


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This is really stupid, but, per Ernie’s tutorial…

“The first thing to do is to actually define a list. The way I do that in Freeway 4 Pro is to create a class style which I use to make the list container, in this case an unordered or ‘bulleted’ list ( figure A ). Then type your list separating each item with a hard return. Because this is a paragraph-level style, you don’t have to select all the text in the run, just drag your cursor so so the selection includes at least part of each line to be in the list, and click the style name in the Styles palette to apply.”

Now, is it possible that’s not exactly true? Or not true in FW5? Do I have to use the manual Indent in the Inspector? If so, I humbly apologize for all the confusion.


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The first thing to do is to actually define a list.

The thing to remember when setting up a style for a list is to make sure to apply the “list” option in the style itself. Even though your text may be formatted as a list to begin with it does not retain that formatting once a new style is applied to it.


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On 15 Oct 2009, 3:31 pm, chuckamuck wrote:

The first thing to do is to actually define a list.

The thing to remember when setting up a style for a list is to make sure to apply the “list” option in the style itself. Even though your text may be formatted as a list to begin with it does not retain that formatting once a new style is applied to it.

Thanks, Chuck. I assume you mean to add, in the Edit Styles dialog, in the Paragraph section, a pop-up menu choice for “List:” I have done that, in two different Styles.

One Style is my non-tag “navlist” and another, for a test, is “justalist”

In both of these Styles I have chosen, as tests, several different types of List from the popup menu. Then applied those different Styles to text, Previewing and Viewing Source each time.

At no point does FWv5 treat the Styled text as a list. The text doesn’t get bullets or squares on the FW page. When published, the source code shows

tags, not

    tags. This is true even when I make a completely new HTML Item and apply the “list” styles to new text.

    The only way to make text a list is to do it manually. That can’t be right. What could I be doing wrong? It’s got to be something stupid, but I can’t find it.


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Now, on the other hand, it seems to me the principal is still being applied somehow I don’t understand at all.

Go to http://luckypro.biz/client/walter/v7 and click into the test site. My menus are working --at least in Firefox and Safari for Mac OS 10.4-- exactly the way I wanted them to. How is this possible?

And if it is possible to make them work without actually being

    lists, why are we going through all the CSS List Menu rigamarole?

    I’m baffled, flummoxed and certainmost stumped.


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Thanks, Chuck. I assume you mean to add, in the Edit Styles dialog, in the Paragraph section

Yep. And you only need to do this to your .navlist class style. All the other tag styles (such ul.navlist a) don’t need that applied again.

By the way, for your tag styles, you are not putting anything in the name field are you?


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Go to http://luckypro.biz/client/walter/v7 and click into the test site. My menus are working –

Seems to be working for me. Just a suggestion, I would put something on that name bar to indicate there are menus there…just for the unobservant.


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On 15 Oct 2009, 6:53 pm, chuckamuck wrote:

Thanks, Chuck. I assume you mean to add, in the Edit Styles dialog, in the Paragraph section

Yep. And you only need to do this to your .navlist class style. All the other tag styles (such ul.navlist a) don’t need that applied again.

By the way, for your tag styles, you are not putting anything in the name field are you?

OK, yes, I have tried a half dozen different List types (Default, Round Bullet, Unordered etc. chosen from the popup menu in the Edit Styles dialog box. None work: none make my .navlist style apply a list function to text.

No other “dependent” styles have that attribute applied. Nor have I applied those styles to the text. They’re supposed to work automatically in the browser, right?

And no, for the tag styles, my names are strictly and completely entered in the Tag: field, by hand. However, my tag styles, following Ernie’s FW4 web page tutorial are:

.navlist a, .navlist a:hover, .navlist li

Each of these has parameters entered according to his tutorial. But even if I make a simple Style as a test, and add only the List parameter, applying that style does not create a List.


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Hi bucky,

To create a list in fw 5 you need to use the arrow in the inspector.
The style you’re setting in the styles palette will only affect an
existing list structure, not create a new one.

You mention the rigmarole of creating lists, they are a very clear way
(in the code) of… listing related elements. We have provided a
really easy way of making them in fw5 too, with the css menus action! :slight_smile:

Best regards,

Joe Billings
Product Manager
Softpress Systems Ltd.

Freeway. Web design for designers.
http://www.softpress.com

On 15 Oct 2009, at 21:22, “Bucky Edgett” email@hidden wrote:

On 15 Oct 2009, 6:53 pm, chuckamuck wrote:

Thanks, Chuck. I assume you mean to add, in the Edit Styles
dialog, in the Paragraph section

Yep. And you only need to do this to your .navlist class style. All
the other tag styles (such ul.navlist a) don’t need that applied
again.

By the way, for your tag styles, you are not putting anything in
the name field are you?

OK, yes, I have tried a half dozen different List types (Default,
Round Bullet, Unordered etc. chosen from the popup menu in the Edit
Styles dialog box. None work: none make my .navlist style apply a
list function to text.

No other “dependent” styles have that attribute applied. Nor have I
applied those styles to the text. They’re supposed to work
automatically in the browser, right?

And no, for the tag styles, my names are strictly and completely
entered in the Tag: field, by hand. However, my tag styles,
following Ernie’s FW4 web page tutorial are:

.navlist a, .navlist a:hover, .navlist li

Each of these has parameters entered according to his tutorial. But
even if I make a simple Style as a test, and add only the List
parameter, applying that style does not create a List.


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Well, thanks, Joe. That explains it. Can you tell me why the document Freeway5Reference_HomePrintVersion says “Alternatively, you can use the List entry in the Style menu…” [emphasis mine]?

I’ve been assuming, obviously wrongly, that styling text with a style that includes a List parameter will create a list. But doesn’t the manual imply just that?

Thanks to those of you who tried to steer me right.


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Hi Bucky,

I think the manual is referring to the “Increase Indent” and “Decrease Indent” options in the Style menu which allow you to make and break HTML lists (the various menu styles in that menu should only be available when you have a text selection that contains a list).

Oh, and I generally find it easier to use the shortcuts (Cmd-Opt-Right Arrow and Cmd-Opt-Left Arrow) for making and breaking lists rather than using the buttons in the Inspector palette… :slight_smile:

Cheers

Stewart


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Oh good Lord! An entry in the Style Menu, not in the the Style Editor. That’s perfectly clear, especially since the manual begins by describing a manual method.

Then tells me of two other manual methods that could be used instead.

Yep, I’m stupid. Following the web tutorial to the letter, which doesn’t mention using these methods to actually create the list. And so I’ve wasted everyone’s time with assumptions so basically wrong.

I can’t apologize enough.

However, I seem to have found an interesting sidelight to List-based menus: in my case, I don’t need a List. The design I’m working on has only one (primary) level for the actual links. There are non-link headers for conceptual sections, but no pop-outs in the menu.

So given that I’ve never had an actual working List, and FW has never published the site with the menu text tagged as a list, it’s interesting that the CSS seems still to be inheriting, setting up blocks, recognizing anchors, etc. more or less as hoped for.

Thank you again and again for clearing up my stupid mistakes.


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On 16 Oct 2009, at 16:02, Bucky Edgett wrote:

However, I seem to have found an interesting sidelight to List-based
menus: in my case, I don’t need a List. The design I’m working on
has only one (primary) level for the actual links. There are non-
link headers for conceptual sections, but no pop-outs in the menu.

Hi Bucky,

I can’t say it better than this:

Of course, if you’re only concerned about the appearance (if it’s not
a site that’s going online for example) then it doesn’t matter how you
made it look the way you want it to look!

Joe


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