[Pro] Don't want CSS in HTML

For a new project I’m working on I use the CSS rollover action that is working great. The only thing is that this actions adds a huge amount of CSS code into my HTML. For the best SEO results I would like to have all this code in an external stylesheet.

So I tried to use the External Style Sheet action to prevent this. The only thing is that I can not figure out how to make the CSS generated by the CSS rollover action disappear from my HTML and still let the rollovers function.

Is there a way to combine these two and let as much CSS code as possible to be put into the external CSS file? Because if I click “Delete Embedded Styles” in the External Style Sheet action, the CSS code disappears from my HTML, but the rollovers stop functioning.

Is this maybe something interesting for Softpress to add into a newer version of Freeway to let Freeway put all the possible CSS code into an external stylesheet?


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Try the “Externalize” action which chucks out the css and javascript.

Nathan Garner

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On May 19, 2011, at 9:48 AM, DTP2 wrote:

For a new project I’m working on I use the CSS rollover action that is working great. The only thing is that this actions adds a huge amount of CSS code into my HTML. For the best SEO results I would like to have all this code in an external stylesheet.

So I tried to use the External Style Sheet action to prevent this. The only thing is that I can not figure out how to make the CSS generated by the CSS rollover action disappear from my HTML and still let the rollovers function.

Is there a way to combine these two and let as much CSS code as possible to be put into the external CSS file? Because if I click “Delete Embedded Styles” in the External Style Sheet action, the CSS code disappears from my HTML, but the rollovers stop functioning.

Is this maybe something interesting for Softpress to add into a newer version of Freeway to let Freeway put all the possible CSS code into an external stylesheet?


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This looks very promising. Did a short test and the action takes out a huge chunk of code and the page (CSS rollovers) still function fine.

For now thanks!


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Try the “Externalize” action which chucks out the css and javascript.

I know this was on the list of things to fix about Externalize so it
may have already been remedied in the current version, I don’t know,
but Externalize will generate a separate stylesheet for every single
page page it’s used on.

Todd


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Hi Todd,
I’ve started this work but the task is a lot bigger than I’d envisioned as the page styles need consolidating and ordering in a way that means they all make some sense when output. At the moment because of the way that the styles are all page centric you can easily have several styles all with the same name but all with wildly varying output. Managing these issues from an Action is also a bit of an uphill struggle.
Regards,
Tim.

On 19 May 2011, at 13:37, Todd wrote:

I know this was on the list of things to fix about Externalize so it may have already been remedied in the current version, I don’t know, but Externalize will generate a separate stylesheet for every single page page it’s used on.

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I’ve started this work but the task is a lot bigger than I’d
envisioned as the page styles need consolidating and ordering in a
way that means they all make some sense when output. At the moment
because of the way that the styles are all page centric you can
easily have several styles all with the same name but all with
wildly varying output. Managing these issues from an Action is also
a bit of an uphill struggle.

Hi Tim,

[Whistles] Wow, that’s quite a job, my head is spinning at the thought
of it. I’m curious, is it even possible to move away from a page-
centric approach within the core application instead of trying to fix
it with an action? Or is that too-scary-a-thread to pull at?

Thanks for trying, though. It’s a useful action with a lot of promise,
it’s just too bad FW can’t manage this sort of thing as a core feature.

Todd


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Is there something negative about having separate stylesheets for every page besides that it is better to have it all in one? For example, will Google rank you lower because of this?

And I agree that it would really rock if Freeway could do this out of the box.


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Is there something negative about having separate stylesheets for
every page besides that it is better to have it all in one? For
example, will Google rank you lower because of this?

As far as I know I don’t think it will impact ranking. From a
practical standpoint it makes things very difficult to maintain if
you were to hand the site over to another non-FW-using designer. I
know because this happened to me with another FW user who gave me a FW
site to fix; it was a big ol’ cluttered mess. Other than it not being
efficient in terms of excess files/code you should be fine.

Todd


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But for every page now there will be at least 2 http request where it is only one if the CSS is inline, so I think it would be great if you could manage it someday to have it all in one stylesheet.


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The biggest issue is that with separate CSS files per page, you don’t get the advantages of caching until the visitor comes to the same page more than once. If your site uses a single (or a very few) stylesheets, then the browser can cache that and it speeds up all the remaining requests in your site.

Walter

On May 19, 2011, at 9:39 AM, Todd wrote:

Is there something negative about having separate stylesheets for every page besides that it is better to have it all in one? For example, will Google rank you lower because of this?

As far as I know I don’t think it will impact ranking. From a practical standpoint it makes things very difficult to maintain if you were to hand the site over to another non-FW-using designer. I know because this happened to me with another FW user who gave me a FW site to fix; it was a big ol’ cluttered mess. Other than it not being efficient in terms of excess files/code you should be fine.

Todd


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But for every page now there will be at least 2 http request where
it is only one if the CSS is inline, so I think it would be great if
you could manage it someday to have it all in one stylesheet.

True, there will be small performance hits as Walter mentioned but I
don’t believe any of it will adversely affect your ranking. It’s not a
great solution, to be sure, but at least Google shouldn’t factor into
it.

Todd


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On 19 May 2011, at 14:29, DTP2 wrote:

Is there something negative about having separate stylesheets for every page besides that it is better to have it all in one?

I’m not sure if this is relevant, but I believe that Internet Explorer (perhaps only IE6, not sure) has a limit to the number of stylesheets it will parse, and that limit is around 31. More than that and there’s trouble, so in theory, you could quite easily overstep that limit on many sites.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

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That’s only per page, not per site. It will parse up to that limit as your page loads.

Walter

On May 19, 2011, at 10:47 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 19 May 2011, at 14:29, DTP2 wrote:

Is there something negative about having separate stylesheets for every page besides that it is better to have it all in one?

I’m not sure if this is relevant, but I believe that Internet Explorer (perhaps only IE6, not sure) has a limit to the number of stylesheets it will parse, and that limit is around 31. More than that and there’s trouble, so in theory, you could quite easily overstep that limit on many sites.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

Buy my eBooks at:
Hi, it's ebOOxa


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I gotta laugh…a lot. Can you imagine what unfortunate series of
events would require a “single” page have anywhere near that number of
stylesheets? And yes, I’m sure they exist somewhere. Just the thought
off maintaining such a beast makes me woozy.

Todd

On May 19, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

That’s only per page, not per site. It will parse up to that limit
as your page loads.

On May 19, 2011, at 10:47 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

I’m not sure if this is relevant, but I believe that Internet
Explorer (perhaps only IE6, not sure) has a limit to the number of
stylesheets it will parse, and that limit is around 31.


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On 19 May 2011, at 16:01, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

That’s only per page, not per site. It will parse up to that limit as your page loads.

Thanks for putting me right Walter :slight_smile:

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

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http://www.paulbradforth.com/books/


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Sure. Have a look at a Plone application page, circa three years ago. I was flabbergasted at the sheer number of separate CSS files were in use in a vanilla system. It took me ages to figure out how to skin the thing to match my client’s request. Rails now does concatenation on these, so you can have separate files for each thing you’re concerned with (for clarity and organization) but then mooshes them all together in one compressed file.

Walter

On May 19, 2011, at 11:07 AM, Todd wrote:

I gotta laugh…a lot. Can you imagine what unfortunate series of events would require a “single” page have anywhere near that number of stylesheets? And yes, I’m sure they exist somewhere. Just the thought off maintaining such a beast makes me woozy.

Todd

On May 19, 2011, at 10:01 AM, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

That’s only per page, not per site. It will parse up to that limit as your page loads.

On May 19, 2011, at 10:47 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

I’m not sure if this is relevant, but I believe that Internet Explorer (perhaps only IE6, not sure) has a limit to the number of stylesheets it will parse, and that limit is around 31.


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Is this something that can be implemented as a standalone process or
does it only work within the context of a larger Rails application?
Did that make sense?

Todd

Rails now does concatenation on these, so you can have separate
files for each thing you’re concerned with (for clarity and
organization) but then mooshes them all together in one compressed
file.


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On 19 May 2011, at 16:07, Todd wrote:

I gotta laugh…a lot. Can you imagine what unfortunate series of events would require a “single” page have anywhere near that number of stylesheets?

Yes! In a word: RapidWeaver. Due to the excess zeal of some theme designers, it’s not unknown for many RapidWeaver themes to actually exceed that amount. The latest version of RapidWeaver has a checkbox marked ‘consolidate stylesheets’, which is a big step forward, but I’m not actually sure that it works for all themes.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

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http://www.paulbradforth.com/books/


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Yes, you can use Sprockets, which is the library that Rails uses, or there are tons of PHP versions of this idea. It’s just string concatenation, really, and it’s very simple to do a simple job of it.

A more elaborate version would also run a minification routine on all the CSS, so you end up with one or two very long lines, where all variables are the letters a, b, c, … instead of more readable names.

Walter

On May 19, 2011, at 11:22 AM, Todd wrote:

Is this something that can be implemented as a standalone process or does it only work within the context of a larger Rails application? Did that make sense?

Todd

Rails now does concatenation on these, so you can have separate files for each thing you’re concerned with (for clarity and organization) but then mooshes them all together in one compressed file.


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