[Pro] Going crazy....

Freeway
1

My macbook pro from 2010 is having an annoying intermitent problem where sometimes if it is closed for like an hour the keyboard and track pad are not responsive and I have to hold the pwer key down and hard restart. I am not sending it to apple since I use it everyday. So I am just dealing with restarting like every 3rd day at the worst time.

My biggest annoyance is that I keep losing CHANGES I made to my webpage and have to remember them.

Sometimes, I make a change to my web page, upload and hit save, but then if it freeze and I restart it shows the webpage from before some changes.

How do I “Lock in” changes" so that if I have to restart I do not lose a single chane to FW file?

is it just I hit SAVE?

this does not seem to be enough, but I could be wrong (maybe I am uploading but not hitting save?_

Sometimes, I hit save and publish and close the file and come back but that seems like overkill.

Thanks so much for advice.

Barry

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2

Saving the FW doc very once in a while doesn’t occur to me to be overkill, that’s just being sane (or safe for that matter).

And yes, I should contact Apple or an Apple store to take a good look at your MBP. It’s not working as it should. Macs are build to be used every day, so they should work every day. it’s JUST a 3 yr ald machine, not an 13 yr old one.

Richard

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3

Thanks for a reply Richard.

Actually I do not think hitting save is too much but my question was does just hitting save keep all changes to the website even if it crashes?

To me the only way I recall locking in every change was saving, publishing, closing document and reopening but like I said I could be wrong.

Barry

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4

When you press Save in Freeway, the current model of the entire site, which is sitting in memory as the application modifies it for you, is written back to disk in Freeway’s proprietary binary format. The contents of the Site Folder will be however you left them – that is never affected by Save, only by Publish or, for a single page, by Preview. Now an interesting thing about the Mac OS HFS+ filesystem – it’s “eventually consistent” not “atomically consistent”. When you save a file, the changes are written to the disk journal, and then the journal is synchronized with the physical disk at some point later. (This is “later” in computer science terms – meaning milliseconds or seconds at the most.) If a hard crash of the OS itself occurs within this window, then at the next restart, the journal will be re-played and the disk made whole. The only way I can imagine changes not being saved to the disk is if Freeway crashes in the middle of the save operation. That could corrupt the whole document, and make it impossible to open, but it wouldn’t leave you with an old version of the file. Even then, you have your fwbackup file, which is cold comfort, since it doesn’t reflect anything that has happened since the last time you opened the document.

Walter

On Oct 4, 2013, at 8:10 AM, Hoffkids wrote:

Thanks for a reply Richard.

Actually I do not think hitting save is too much but my question was does just hitting save keep all changes to the website even if it crashes?

To me the only way I recall locking in every change was saving, publishing, closing document and reopening but like I said I could be wrong.

Barry

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5

Ok Walt,

So if you were me and this was your unfortunate situation…

  1. You make many changes throughout the day to your site

  2. Your macbook pro has to be hard restarted every so often because of a problem and you are not sending it in for service but just choosing to deal with it for now

  3. You need to have your web page in FW the exact same after you restart your systsem than before it crashed

what would you do?

Just hit File, SAVE??? and then when you come back all should be as it was before crash?

Or publish?

Thanks,

Barry

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6

Just save. Publish or don’t makes no difference at all to what the state of the document is. The publish command is like Print in any other application (which is nice, since it shares the same key command). You don’t care at all about the paper in your printer’s out-tray when looking at a document in Word, do you? You can always make a new site folder, entirely empty, and press Command-P to get a new site. The document is the only source of truth in the system. The Site Folder is an artifact, and a highly disposable artifact at that.

Walter

On Oct 4, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Hoffkids wrote:

Ok Walt,

So if you were me and this was your unfortunate situation…

  1. You make many changes throughout the day to your site

  2. Your macbook pro has to be hard restarted every so often because of a problem and you are not sending it in for service but just choosing to deal with it for now

  3. You need to have your web page in FW the exact same after you restart your systsem than before it crashed

what would you do?

Just hit File, SAVE??? and then when you come back all should be as it was before crash?

Or publish?

Thanks,

Barry

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7

So if I make 20 changes and hit save (not even publish or upload), then I close my laptop (no shutdown), open it up in 1 hour from sleep, my keyboard is frozen and I have to hold power button and restart system, those 20 changes should all still be there?

I feel like I have hit save and sometimes they are not all there and I have to recall them- not 100% sure.

Barry

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8

If you hit save, the current state of the document is committed to the disk journal by the OS. Publish is a flag – a bit of metadata set on each page as it is “printed” to the site folder, and that metadata is updated (and saved) along with the document. The contents of the site folder are completely irrelevant to this “state of the document”. As I have repeatedly said, you can always get another Site Folder; your document is the only place where changes to your site are actually written.

One thing you may be getting bitten by here is this: sometimes your Mac will crash and appear to still be working. It’s crashed at a very low level, and the rest of the system, built up onion-like around that low level, only notices the fact when it tries to do something specific. It’s like the crabapple tree in my back yard, which dutifully produces a crop of apples and leaves every season, but loses major limbs every time the wind blows. It’s dead, but the bark hasn’t gotten the memo yet.

Another thing that occurs to me is that your disk drive (the physical media) may be damaged or on the way out. When was the last time you ran Disk Utility? Do you have a Mac OS DVD lying around? You may want to boot from that (so you can repair the startup drive) and run it from there. Do the deep cleansing Repair Disk routine. Go out for lunch, if your disk is larger than 500GB. If Disk Utility reports SMART errors, then by all means let it run and fix what it can, but pray to the gods of Time Machine that your backups are actually intact, and purchase a replacement post-haste.

Walter

On Oct 4, 2013, at 9:19 AM, Hoffkids wrote:

So if I make 20 changes and hit save (not even publish or upload), then I close my laptop (no shutdown), open it up in 1 hour from sleep, my keyboard is frozen and I have to hold power button and restart system, those 20 changes should all still be there?

I feel like I have hit save and sometimes they are not all there and I have to recall them- not 100% sure.

Barry

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9

wow- thanks Walt.

Appreciate it.

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10

At 09:19 -0400 4/10/13, Hoffkids wrote:

So if I make 20 changes and hit save (not even publish or upload),
then I close my laptop (no shutdown), open it up in 1 hour from
sleep, my keyboard is frozen and I have to hold power button and
restart system, those 20 changes should all still be there?

I feel like I have hit save and sometimes they are not all there and
I have to recall them- not 100% sure.

The FW file won’t be a series of changes, it will be a file that
describes your site at the time of save. If you make a 20 changes
then what is saved is the result of all of those changes. We all know
that FW has only one level of undo, therefore there is nothing to
indicate whether the effect of change 19 is recent or was in the
design when you last opened the file, therefore it’s an
all-or-nothing save. If the save doesn’t complete for some system
reason, and Journaling is turned on, then the partial save may be
‘unwound’ at reboot so all the changes since the previous save are
lost - but not only some of them. If Journaling is off then the file
would be corrupted at a filesystem level and you’d have to use the
backup.

At 09:02 -0400 4/10/13, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

When you save a file, the changes are written to the disk journal,
and then the journal is synchronized with the physical disk at some
point later. (This is “later” in computer science terms – meaning
milliseconds or seconds at the most.) If a hard crash of the OS
itself occurs within this window, then at the next restart, the
journal will be re-played and the disk made whole.

The changes aren’t written to the Journal but to ‘Buffer Cache’
before being synchronised to disk. This is nothing more than an area
of memory that has to be used as an intermediary anyway. It’s called
Buffer Cache because the data in it doesn’t have to be written to
disk before the program is allowed to continue, and also it remains
available should the program decide it has to read the data just
written. It acts as a cache of the corresponding disk block(s).

What is written to the Journal is the details of changes to the
filesystem rather than the data. If a file has to be extended (more
blocks are allocated to it) (or shrunk), or a new directory is
created etc., then the details are journaled. If the extension,
shrink, new directory, Š change does not complete due to a system
crash or power fail then the Journal is used to undo or complete the
action at boot time so that the filesystem is self-consistent again.
The data itself is not journaled.

David

–
David Ledger - Freelance Unix Sysadmin in the UK.
email@hidden
www.ivdcs.co.uk

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11

Walter,

I am so glad this issue came up. This ‘simple procedure’ has baffled me for the longest time.

I have been to the Apple store with irritating problems, one in specific the hanging up of a computer shut down. They said use what ever startup disc you have and boot from… etc … disc utility… etc

Problem is, the system disk doesn’t match the HD OS upgrade (app store) or I can’t figure how to get there and end up with a Time Machine restore… In short, I am afraid to touch let alone find a 'Deep Cleansing Repair Disk routine" (restores take forever). This may be very basic, but I think the rules for such a thing have been hidden from me and I would like access. Suggestions?

Frank H.

On Oct 4, 2013, at 6:27 AM, Walter Lee Davis email@hidden wrote:

If you hit save, the current state of the document is committed to the disk journal by the OS. Publish is a flag – a bit of metadata set on each page as it is “printed” to the site folder, and that metadata is updated (and saved) along with the document. The contents of the site folder are completely irrelevant to this “state of the document”. As I have repeatedly said, you can always get another Site Folder; your document is the only place where changes to your site are actually written.

One thing you may be getting bitten by here is this: sometimes your Mac will crash and appear to still be working. It’s crashed at a very low level, and the rest of the system, built up onion-like around that low level, only notices the fact when it tries to do something specific. It’s like the crabapple tree in my back yard, which dutifully produces a crop of apples and leaves every season, but loses major limbs every time the wind blows. It’s dead, but the bark hasn’t gotten the memo yet.

Another thing that occurs to me is that your disk drive (the physical media) may be damaged or on the way out. When was the last time you ran Disk Utility? Do you have a Mac OS DVD lying around? You may want to boot from that (so you can repair the startup drive) and run it from there. Do the deep cleansing Repair Disk routine. Go out for lunch, if your disk is larger than 500GB. If Disk Utility reports SMART errors, then by all means let it run and fix what it can, but pray to the gods of Time Machine that your backups are actually intact, and purchase a replacement post-haste.

Walter

On Oct 4, 2013, at 9:19 AM, Hoffkids wrote:

So if I make 20 changes and hit save (not even publish or upload), then I close my laptop (no shutdown), open it up in 1 hour from sleep, my keyboard is frozen and I have to hold power button and restart system, those 20 changes should all still be there?

I feel like I have hit save and sometimes they are not all there and I have to recall them- not 100% sure.

Barry

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12

At 21:37 -0700 4/10/13, Frank Harshbarger wrote:

Problem is, the system disk doesn’t match the HD OS upgrade (app
store) or I can’t figure how to get there and end up with a Time
Machine restoreŠ In short, I am afraid to touch let alone find a
'Deep Cleansing Repair Disk routine" (restores take forever). This
may be very basic, but I think the rules for such a thing have been
hidden from me and I would like access. Suggestions?

Volume repair programs like Disk Utility don’t look at the data on
the disk in the same way as the running OS X does. The HFS+
filesystem hasn’t changed since Journaling was added properly. (There
was an optional bolt-on version first). Any volume repair software
you have that was written for the version of HFS+ you have will work
as required. Anything from 10.6 onwards will be fine, and maybe
earlier. Journaling was ‘On’ by default in 10.6 and I think it was
fully included but ‘Off’ by default at 10.5.

HFS, HFS+ and some other filesystem follow a model introduced by Unix
back in the '70s. What looks like a hierarchical tree structure is a
simple second layer built onto a flat filesystem. Volume repair
software works on the underlying flat filesystem where all the block
allocation happens. DiskWarrior works at the upper level where all
the naming and folder structure is defined, but does so via the lower
level, which is why it takes so long.

David

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David Ledger - Freelance Unix Sysadmin in the UK.
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13

Interesting thread. Is it possible for Time Machine to start ignoring certain files from third party Applications? In my case even with plenty of Space Time Machine decided to stop backing up my .freeway file. I looked at the restore point all the way to the end and it starts from Dec 2013 and never changed.

It seems that Time Machine just stopped replacing the .freeway file with new updated versions. Yet it kept backing up new files like images, movies and more added with the site up until my HD crashed.

I did find this from Apple Support page on Time Machine.

“In rare situations, Time Machine may be unable to back up third-party software (software from companies other than Apple), due to a setting made by that software manufacturer. For more information, contact the vendor of the software.”

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