[Pro] Jagged edges ... again

Hi - me again but I have tried searching, honest … the link above shows, on the left a jpg dragged in, the next ‘imported’ and the last pass through png … obviously the pass through has solved the jaggies problem but I’m guessing (though I can’t find where to view the file-size) that it’s much bigger than the others, it’s also a bit more work (in photoshop) … I was hoping to rotate, add border and shadow in Freeway but not if the edges are as bad as this … any advice please Roger

http://www.christchurchview.co.uk


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You could try rotating the whole image box using CSS3 and let CSS draw the outline and the drop shadow.

let the browser take care of the image rendering as here…

http://www.tlaboutiquemanagement.com/personal-management.php

Look at this…
http://www.css3maker.com/css3-transform.html

And this…
http://css3generator.com

David Owen

http://www.printlineadvertising.co.uk

On 30 Jul 2013, at 09:46, Roger Burton email@hidden wrote:

Hi - me again but I have tried searching, honest … the link above shows, on the left a jpg dragged in, the next ‘imported’ and the last pass through png … obviously the pass through has solved the jaggies problem but I’m guessing (though I can’t find where to view the file-size) that it’s much bigger than the others, it’s also a bit more work (in photoshop) … I was hoping to rotate, add border and shadow in Freeway but not if the edges are as bad as this … any advice please Roger

http://www.christchurchview.co.uk


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That looks interesting David, I’ll check it out.

Roger


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On 30 Jul 2013, 3:09 pm, David Owen wrote:

Look at this…
http://www.css3maker.com/css3-transform.html

And this…
http://css3generator.com

David Owen

Does this mean that Freeway cannot really render rotated images with a drop shadow without having jagged edges? Is it necessary to add more CSS to achieve smooth edges? I have a load of images set up all displaying the same jagged edges.
Adding a border the same colour as the background doesn’t work as there are overlaps going on as well.

Whats the best, quickest way to achieve smooth edges on a rotated image with a drop shadow?

Thanks


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I have ben browsing the CSS3 goodies collection of actions and was wondering if there is a chance that there may be a similar action out there for rotation of images?

The jagged edges are an issue when simply rotating images and it would be great to have an action which can literally smooth these edges out.

There appears to be CSS3 actions for most other simple graphic styling other than rotation.

Any inputs most welcome.


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I have an Action called Div Distorter which may do what you want. Even though I have tried to provide a preview in the Action, you’ll need to preview in a browser to ensure that everything is as you hope. It’s really a bit experimental though.

http://www.actionsworld.com/Actions/divdistorter/


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Hello Paul,

Thanks for that. I note it is for applying to html div items.
I went to try it out but the action wasn’t showing up in the Actions menu list. I was applying it to a html item with an image contained in it.

I have all the images I need to rotate as graphic items. I guess it would be ideal if Freeway could generate straight edges when an image is rotated.


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I have all the images I need to rotate as graphic items.

Have you tried using these images as a background to an Html container (div)

David


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Hello David,

Does this entail doing the rotation of the image first and then inserting it into a html box or is it just using the background select in the html item menu?

Normally for images I would prepare them in advance in photoshop rotated and with a shadow already in place but due to the nature of the content of the layers I am working on then there is a bit of nudging and tweaking to get things to fit most neatly which would be rendered easier if the rotation and shadows could be generated in freeway when I know what space I am trying to fill with the particular image.

I am still not able to see the Div Distorter in the Cations list to be able to assess it for use. I must be missing something I suppose.


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On Sep 18, 2013, at 9:28 AM, tonzodehoo wrote:

Hello David,

Does this entail doing the rotation of the image first and then inserting it into a html box or is it just using the background select in the html item menu?

Normally for images I would prepare them in advance in photoshop rotated and with a shadow already in place but due to the nature of the content of the layers I am working on then there is a bit of nudging and tweaking to get things to fit most neatly which would be rendered easier if the rotation and shadows could be generated in freeway when I know what space I am trying to fill with the particular image.

You may want to do both. First, sketch in Freeway – get the layout exactly right in terms of balance and scale – then export that image (or just grab it from Safari with the contextual menu) and paste it into Photoshop as a guide layer. Transform the real image to match, and export with all the finesse that Photoshop is rightly lauded for bringing to the party. Replace your sketch in Freeway with a pass-through image using your sweetened image.

This is going to be the most bomb-proof way of handling all of this, because IE cannot screw it up. But if you are more worried about the future than the past, then you will want to consider rotating the image in CSS, casting the shadow in CSS, etc – because it will always look as great as possible on a modern browser or a Retina-caliber screen.

I am still not able to see the Div Distorter in the Cations list to be able to assess it for use. I must be missing something I suppose.

That’s because an image in Freeway – even a pass-through image in an HTML box – is considered by the Actions API to be a Graphic Box, and the Action has been coded to only apply to an HTML box. To get the effect you want with this Action (in its current incarnation) you will need to first draw an HTML box, then double-click inside it and choose Insert / Graphic Item, then click once on that inline element, and import your image there. Without this extra level of wrapping, the Action has nothing to attach to. It won’t even show up in the menu since you don’t have the “right” content type selected.

Paul could add a branch of code to the Action to allow it to apply to graphic boxes, but that’s more complexity and I leave it to him to find the time to do that.

Walter


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Does this entail doing the rotation of the image first and then inserting it into a html box

No - select your Html item and under the Paintbrush Tab in the inspector choose your background image - set positioning (centre, top) and no repeat

But - like you - it is not appearing for me in FW5. Fine in 6?

D


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That’s because an image in Freeway — even a pass-through image in an HTML box — is considered by the Actions API to be a Graphic Box, and the Action has been coded to only apply to an HTML box.

Of course 6 does it differently - or the actions implementation in 6 - as you can apply it to an html item with a bg image.

D


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If you draw an HTML box in Freeway 6, and import an image into it (as pass-through), even though the result IS a DIV with an image in it, clicking that element always results in the image being selected. There is no way to get a cursor selection on an HTML item containing (not backgrounded with) an image.

Freeway 5 and 6 allow you to apply an image to the background property of an HTML item, and I expect that they would behave precisely the same w/r/t the Action.

Walter

On Sep 18, 2013, at 9:54 AM, DeltaDave wrote:

That’s because an image in Freeway — even a pass-through image in an HTML box — is considered by the Actions API to be a Graphic Box, and the Action has been coded to only apply to an HTML box.

Of course 6 does it differently - or the actions implementation in 6 - as you can apply it to an html item with a bg image.

D


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If you draw an HTML box in Freeway 6, and import an image into it (as pass-through),

Yes but applying as a bg image is fine.

After your last comment about that I went back to 5 and ‘drew’ an html container, added a bg image and had no problem adding the DD action.

D


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Many thanks for the inputs.

Indeed Dave you are correct. I’ve just done what you suggested in the last message and sure enough the DD action works giving smooth edges. Thats a step forward.

The addition of the drop shadow to the background image is another challenge.

I take your points also Walter. I may just have to labour on with the placement and replacement procedure for each image as you described which I guess was what I was trying to avoid! Not through any sense of laziness of course!

I had just hoped that more could be achieved with the actions and transformation of images within Freeway itself to save me having to leave the relative comfort of its workspace for the great outdoors of photoshop!

What is it within Freeway which causes the jaggy edges when the image is rotated?


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The addition of the drop shadow to the background image is another challenge.

If your Html containers (and their image background) are rectangular then you can use the CSS3 shadow action.

However if if your images are rotated by different amounts then your shadows will not match each other in angle/direction and may look odd.

http://www.deltadesign.co/FW6Test/rotatedmages.html

D


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I’m back onto this. I shall for now do the rotation and drop shadow in photoshop and replace as Walter had suggested.

The images will be fairly randomly rotated so I take your point Dave about the CSS3 shadow action.

I have tried the various other options re the rotation and to an extent there are pros and cons with each. I found that the Div Distorter Action gives decent results for the edges but seems to soften or blur the image a bit.

I come back to the main point was why it is that Freeway cannot seem to generate rotated images with sharp non jagged edges?

I haven’t found anything else much on the forums dealing with this which maybe means that either no one else has really rotated images much or that I am missing something basic here. Or Freeway just can’t do it?

As ever I value any inputs.


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Hi chaps … I’m the op - I indeed ended up doing the distortion rotation and shadow in pshop and ‘saving for web’ - this is how they look:

http://www.christchurchview.co.uk

Best Roger


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Thanks for that. The images look sharp and clear.

I would like to understand what it is in Freeway that causes the edges to go jaggy upon rotation. Is it the same in Version 6?


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There are two things that compound to make the jaggy edge.

First, a rotated line (anything not at 0, 90 180, or 270) must be represented on the rigid grid of the computer screen as a fine-grained ziggurat. To smooth out those lines, a bit of background color is mixed into the steps, and a fuzzy color fools the eye into thinking that the line is smooth. That’s basic anti-aliasing. Freeway’s “automatic” anti-aliasing setting requires that the element have a background color below it to work at all. Normally, that’s going to be the background of the page, unless the element in question is set to merge with another graphic item “below” it in the layer stacking order. But it also requires that there be a foreground color in the element being anti-aliased. A photograph imported into a graphics box does not ordinarily have a foreground color, because it is a photo separate from the box. You can try to game this system by setting a background color on your graphics box that is a good approximation of a middle-value in your photo. You can also do the same thing by setting a graphic border on the box. Both of those give the anti-aliasing system something to work with.

The second issue, and larger when it comes to fine detail like this, is that Freeway’s graphics system is optimized for speed over quality. Instead of Photoshop’s bicubic interpolation, it uses bilinear interpolation, which uses 4 sample pixels rather than 8 to come up with a new blended pixel when resizing or otherwise horsing around with graphics. Photoshop’s made-up pixels are much more precise as a result, and while I don’t have absolute certainty that this is related to what’s happening in your page, I believe it must have some bearing on the final output. (Once upon a time, there was a preference to turn on bicubic interpolation. It was so amazingly slow to publish anything that it was never made public.)

Using CSS to rotate an image gets the video card into the mix, by using Open GL to render the image onto a 2D plane, and then rotating that plane. That’s why it’s fast and low-drag on your computer. But that’s why it’s also not very sharp. Video card tricks like this are optimized for motion graphics, where a little blurring actually makes it look more believable. If you were to use CSS transitions to rotate the photo back and forth, it would look perfectly natural and believable on your screen. But if you took a snapshot of it at any degree of rotation, you would see the blurriness you describe.

Walter

On Sep 26, 2013, at 3:18 AM, tonzodehoo wrote:

Thanks for that. The images look sharp and clear.

I would like to understand what it is in Freeway that causes the edges to go jaggy upon rotation. Is it the same in Version 6?


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