[Pro] Spacing below bullet list

I am really struggling to achieve a reasonably clean look for a bullet list with surrounding border across various browsers and I don’t know what the solution is.

Originally I was seeing that the text from I.E was spilling out over the edge of the border, so I applied some html markup Before

This made the text in IE appear one point smaller than in other browsers but I have still been forced to extend the border inside FW a massive 3cm lower than it appears in IE.

It now looks OK when viewed inside Safari and it just scrapes inside the border on Firefox 3.5 on the Mac, but spills over the edge on the same Windows version.

The site is at http://www.nudephotopro.com and I wondered if anybody knows the solution?


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I seem to have partially resolved this problem by changing my default character encoding to western (ISO Latin 1). I shall continue to experiment but that was something I stumbled on purely by chance.


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Is there any consensus on the best default character encoding?


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I now have relatively close results on IE, Safari and Firefox on the Mac. The most difficult browser to deal with has been Firefox on Windows. None of them bare any resemblance though to what I am seeing inside FW.


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Hi Ashley

Unfortunately this page will not work in any browser if the viewer enlarges the text or has their default text size set larger than you have set.

Your layered construction means that your text boxes all expand over the top of others when the text size is enlarged.

To avoid this you can use the much referred to Box Model method (See Dan J’s Tutorial) or a simple table layout.

David


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Hi David,
The point I was raising is not really related to that point as such, because I didn’t even try increasing the size of the text, but it does raise a question that is worth discussing.

I think the site does work when enlarging text if you use more modern browsers like the latest Safari, IE or Firefox. It’s the older browsers that have problems or those who choose the option to only increase text size.

I am aware of the problem you are talking about though and see this as an inherent problem really if you work with Freeway as normally intended. I’ll do a search for the Box Model you mention but my understanding is that it rather defeats the object of using Freeway in that case. Please correct me if I am wrong, because I would like to get this right.

Ashley


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if you use more modern browsers like the latest Safari, IE or Firefox. It’s the older browsers that have problems or those who choose the option to only increase text size

And I am afraid that there are zillions of folk out there that do not ‘use more modern browsers’ and I personally choose the option to only increase text size when viewing sites.

At the end of the day you are trying to give the best experience to the widest audience possible - and if that means using the Box Model - that is what you have to do.

But it is not the only way - you can have a perfectly useable site that doesn’t fall apart by not using layers at all (a simple table layout).

A big plus of FW is that it makes it easy to build your site either way. Admittedly the Box Model is a bit more difficult to get your head around but in some instances it is the best way to go.

David


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I wasn’t even aware I was using a layered method as such. I simply make sure that the blue CCS button is selected and then drag & drop my boxes into position, which was always the supposed advantage of Freeway.

To build a site using the table method, I take I simply have to press the blue button, so that it becomes a table layout, which would be great if that solves the problem, however, I shall definitely investigate this Box Model. I have to wait about a week now for some graphics that will be used on the site which are being prepared by a designer, so in the meanwhile I can spend some time to really try and get this right.

Speaking of designers, when I needed someone to prepare the graphics I mentioned, I was astonished at the ridiculously low prices being offered by many web and graphic designers nowadays. I was literally inundated with offers at prices that seem a million miles away from what I thought were normal rates. It made me wonder why I am losing hours to prepare a site if I can get a professional to do it so cheaply and quickly. I suspect that like photography there is just too much competition out there.


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I saw an ad recently posted by an ad agency in a major market who
wanted an “expert” in HTML, CSS, PHP, MySQL, ASP, ActionScript, jQuery
and XML (geez, is that all?) and they were paying…drumroll please…
$12/hr (and I’ve seen lower). I kid you not. And what’s really sad is
that they’ll get hundreds, maybe even thousands of resumes. How do you
compete with people who are willing to devalue their skills (and mine
and yours) to such an extent and in doing so perpetuate the low wages
offered by companies and expected by individuals? They are in part
helping undermine their own industry. Yes, there are still some good-
paying gigs but boy, they are ever harder to find much less land.

Most days I really miss doing design work but when I see ads like
above I’m glad I got out.

Todd

On Jul 24, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Ashley wrote:

I was astonished at the ridiculously low prices being offered by
many web and graphic designers nowadays. I was literally inundated
with offers at prices that seem a million miles away from what I
thought were normal rates. It made me wonder why I am losing hours
to prepare a site if I can get a professional to do it so cheaply
and quickly. I suspect that like photography there is just too much
competition out there.


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they were paying…drumroll please…$12/hr (and I’ve seen lower).
I kid you not. And what’s really sad is that they’ll get hundreds,
maybe even thousands of resumes.

Only from people still living with their parents. And ‘expert’ is not
really what they’ll be.

k


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Pressing the big blue button only changes whatever you make after you
press it, not anything that’s already on the page. To change the
things that are on the page, select each one in turn and uncheck the
Layer checkbox in the Inspector. You may have to do some sorting of
elements front to back when you’re done, and you’ll certainly have to
rationalize your layout a bit (no HTML boxes may overlap anything) but
you may find that’s all it takes to make a finished site that behaves
in browsers new and old.

Walter

On Jul 24, 2009, at 5:46 PM, Ashley wrote:

To build a site using the table method, I take I simply have to
press the blue button, so that it becomes a table layout, which
would be great if that solves the problem,


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Thanks Walter I’ll give that a go to see if it does the job at which point I can leave it more or less as it is. From a quick test it has sort of worked, but some items have simply vanished and will probably have to be placed with greater care. I’ve also lost the black border line around the edge which doesn’t make sense.

On the subject of price I have had literally dozens of people falling all over themselves to create a book cover and header graphic for as little as $15 and I never would have expected that in a hundred years. It’s almost embarrassing to receive emails and unrequested mock ups when such low fees are being entertained and clearly there are some desperate designers out there.

I was able to produce a header graphic myself in ten minutes, so I’ve left that for the time being and asked a designer in New Zealand with an established track record in ebook covers to handle that part for a cost of about $100. Please remember these are their quoted prices and not some greedy client putting pressure on them to work cheaply.

This morning I received an offer from his main competition to produce the site, ebook cover, order button and mailing list opt in for just $125. Don’t assume his work is rubbish either because everything I have seen so far was excellent. He did some work on a site run by a friend of mine and it was far better than I could ever manage on my own.

This has all been a strange wake up call and I am starting to see that from a purely hard headed business perspective it’s really not worth my time trying to do these things myself if others can do them well for such little money. When a designer says to me that a page like that would cost me £1000 I am inclined to try myself, but if he says $100 it makes little sense for me to spend hours tinkering in Freeway to try and do it myself.

I am uncomfortable with the whole concept of graphic artists charging such low fees, because I am a part of the same general industry as a photographer. Exactly the same thing if not worse has happened to the photography prices for stock images and that has filtered out to assignment work as well. Unfortunately it was the graphic designers who were the first to jump on board and grab all those $1 images rather than paying real prices, so I really can’t justify even picking up the camera now to create images for stock purposes.


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