Scrutinizing SPARKLE (Freeway alternative)

I’ve looked at Sparkle in the past - I actually have a copy of version 2. However, it seems to be lacking for my needs. I can’t place PHP in the layout easily. The option doesn’t really do what I need.

I also find that if I use JavaScript to create content (simulating content of unknown size to be pulled from a database) that it won’t push elements down the page, they just overlap.

Both issues that Freeway had (actually, still have), but both overcome by Actions.

So while Sparkle is still on my HD, it’s not going to be taking over from Freeway any time soon.


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Paul, we actually added that option for the next version of Sparkle. The tricky part is iframes with a 100% height (not officially standardized, but used) will collapse unless the containing element has a fixed height. We have added a checkbox to the embed element to allow for the content to expand vertically, it was needed to embed the shopping cart of ecwid.com for a client.

Duncan


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@JDW
Your answer:
“Regarding your critique of my Point #10, I would argue that those icons
should be contextual in nature, and to understand that, open up Adobe
Illustrator. Don’t have it? Well, then just trust me. In Illustrator, I
don’t see the Align icons until I draw something. I can then draw JUST ONE
OBJECT, and the Align icons appear. Why? Because Illustrator is in many
ways a brilliantly crafted app. You can ALIGN TO THE PAGE! Ha ha! So you
see, you don’t really need more than one object selected to make Align
icons appear. Sparkle falls flat on that point, in my opinion, by showing
those icons all the time when most of the time they are dead and cannot do
anything. That’s not intuitive design”

I use Illustrator for decades. I’ve tried to align ONE single object on a
blank artboard and tried to align it… but nope. Nothing happens.
I see there’s an option for ‘centre tot artboard’, but again nothing
happens. Only with more objects. Guide me if you will James.

Normally if I want to centre a single object on the page I choose
and . Presto.

In Sparkle, any new object is placed in the centre of the page/workspace.
And then, at every movement, a green guideline shows up along the gridlines
and spaces or along other objects. More objects will align as should. I
wouldn’t know what I should be missing, sorry.

Andries

2016-07-26 17:44 GMT+02:00 Paul email@hidden:

I’ve looked at Sparkle in the past - I actually have a copy of version 2.
However, it seems to be lacking for my needs. I can’t place PHP in the
layout easily. The option doesn’t really do what I need.

I also find that if I use JavaScript to create content (simulating content
of unknown size to be pulled from a database) that it won’t push elements
down the page, they just overlap.

Both issues that Freeway had (actually, still have), but both overcome by
Actions.

So while Sparkle is still on my HD, it’s not going to be taking over from
Freeway any time soon.


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@JDW

Andries, I fail to see your point (… ) But the point of Point#9 is
that there is no TITLE TEXT (not that my poor eyes can see) within the
“Style” tab. Perhaps you don’t understand what TITLE TEXT is. TITLE TEXT
is text that appears when you hover over something. It’s like a tooltip.
I can create that in Freeway, and I explained how previously. I simply
don’t see a way to accomplish that in Sparkle. Now, if you can do that,
please guide me. Sometimes I need handholding.

Hi James. I know what TITLE TEXT is. But I also know what ALT(ERNATIVE)
TEXT is. At least in FW, in the Inspector. That text is after input a kind
of tooltip when making a graphic object (like a button) and hoovering above
it.
The only thing I think it’s usefull for, is visually impaired people, so
their computer can speak out that text, like ‘Photo Ibiza’, when hoovering
over a photo of Ibiza.
But I normally switch it off, because I don’t want to show ‘Item 1’,
‘item2’ when visitors hoovering above simple boxes which I didn’t give a
name.

Sparkle doesn’t show Alt text besides the button Title. You’re right.
Perhaps you use it with an other purpose?

Andries

2016-07-26 20:32 GMT+02:00 email@hidden:

@JDW
Your answer:
“Regarding your critique of my Point #10, I would argue that those icons
should be contextual in nature, and to understand that, open up Adobe
Illustrator. Don’t have it? Well, then just trust me. In Illustrator, I
don’t see the Align icons until I draw something. I can then draw JUST ONE
OBJECT, and the Align icons appear. Why? Because Illustrator is in many
ways a brilliantly crafted app. You can ALIGN TO THE PAGE! Ha ha! So you
see, you don’t really need more than one object selected to make Align
icons appear. Sparkle falls flat on that point, in my opinion, by showing
those icons all the time when most of the time they are dead and cannot do
anything. That’s not intuitive design”

I use Illustrator for decades. I’ve tried to align ONE single object on a
blank artboard and tried to align it… but nope. Nothing happens.
I see there’s an option for ‘centre tot artboard’, but again nothing
happens. Only with more objects. Guide me if you will James.

Normally if I want to centre a single object on the page I choose
and . Presto.

In Sparkle, any new object is placed in the centre of the page/workspace.
And then, at every movement, a green guideline shows up along the gridlines
and spaces or along other objects. More objects will align as should. I
wouldn’t know what I should be missing, sorry.

Andries

2016-07-26 17:44 GMT+02:00 Paul email@hidden:

I’ve looked at Sparkle in the past - I actually have a copy of version
2. However, it seems to be lacking for my needs. I can’t place PHP in the
layout easily. The option doesn’t really do what I need.

I also find that if I use JavaScript to create content (simulating
content of unknown size to be pulled from a database) that it won’t push
elements down the page, they just overlap.

Both issues that Freeway had (actually, still have), but both overcome by
Actions.

So while Sparkle is still on my HD, it’s not going to be taking over from
Freeway any time soon.


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@JDW
I agree with you about manuals. I always read them when I first intuitive
inspected the program. Like all Apple users I do think haha.
And then, when it becomes ‘thick’, I began reading, only about the issue I
encounter,

15 years ago I discovered Freeway. Next to Golive and Dreamweaver it was a
releave and a small step to fall in love with after using Xpress or
Indesign. DTP for the web was born, hip hip hurray!
But count those many issues in Freewaytalk the last two years, without
actual manuals, tutorials or great help from nice people like Walter, Max,
Dave, Thomas, Tim etc., Freeway isn’t Freeway anymore. New starters get
completely lost with the lack of good tuts. And they choosed FW because of
the ‘none coding’ statement.

So I appreciate Sparkle, Blocs, Everweb and more for their approach to make
our weblive simpler, with more time to design instead of solving weird
issues.
Freeway did that for us in the past. It’s really sad that they get lost in
the future.

Andries

2016-07-26 20:49 GMT+02:00 email@hidden:

@JDW

Andries, I fail to see your point (… ) But the point of Point#9 is
that there is no TITLE TEXT (not that my poor eyes can see) within the
“Style” tab. Perhaps you don’t understand what TITLE TEXT is. TITLE TEXT
is text that appears when you hover over something. It’s like a tooltip.
I can create that in Freeway, and I explained how previously. I simply
don’t see a way to accomplish that in Sparkle. Now, if you can do that,
please guide me. Sometimes I need handholding.

Hi James. I know what TITLE TEXT is. But I also know what ALT(ERNATIVE)
TEXT is. At least in FW, in the Inspector. That text is after input a kind
of tooltip when making a graphic object (like a button) and hoovering above
it.
The only thing I think it’s usefull for, is visually impaired people, so
their computer can speak out that text, like ‘Photo Ibiza’, when hoovering
over a photo of Ibiza.
But I normally switch it off, because I don’t want to show ‘Item 1’,
‘item2’ when visitors hoovering above simple boxes which I didn’t give a
name.

Sparkle doesn’t show Alt text besides the button Title. You’re right.
Perhaps you use it with an other purpose?

Andries

2016-07-26 20:32 GMT+02:00 email@hidden:

@JDW
Your answer:
“Regarding your critique of my Point #10, I would argue that those icons
should be contextual in nature, and to understand that, open up Adobe
Illustrator. Don’t have it? Well, then just trust me. In Illustrator, I
don’t see the Align icons until I draw something. I can then draw JUST ONE
OBJECT, and the Align icons appear. Why? Because Illustrator is in many
ways a brilliantly crafted app. You can ALIGN TO THE PAGE! Ha ha! So you
see, you don’t really need more than one object selected to make Align
icons appear. Sparkle falls flat on that point, in my opinion, by showing
those icons all the time when most of the time they are dead and cannot do
anything. That’s not intuitive design”

I use Illustrator for decades. I’ve tried to align ONE single object on a
blank artboard and tried to align it… but nope. Nothing happens.
I see there’s an option for ‘centre tot artboard’, but again nothing
happens. Only with more objects. Guide me if you will James.

Normally if I want to centre a single object on the page I choose
and . Presto.

In Sparkle, any new object is placed in the centre of the page/workspace.
And then, at every movement, a green guideline shows up along the gridlines
and spaces or along other objects. More objects will align as should. I
wouldn’t know what I should be missing, sorry.

Andries

2016-07-26 17:44 GMT+02:00 Paul email@hidden:

I’ve looked at Sparkle in the past - I actually have a copy of version
2. However, it seems to be lacking for my needs. I can’t place PHP in the
layout easily. The option doesn’t really do what I need.

I also find that if I use JavaScript to create content (simulating
content of unknown size to be pulled from a database) that it won’t push
elements down the page, they just overlap.

Both issues that Freeway had (actually, still have), but both overcome
by Actions.

So while Sparkle is still on my HD, it’s not going to be taking over
from Freeway any time soon.


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Duncan, my humble thanks for your kindness is explaining in great detail the matter of Responsive layouts and all the caveats. But in terms of Freeway being “almost impossible to understand,” it actually is drop dead intuitive to me when it comes to legacy table-based layouts. Freeway is the old DTP model of design. My first home computer was a Mac 128k back in 1984 at the age of 13, so I grew up understanding what DTP was all about, and so when I saw Freeway for the first time back in 1999, I learned how to use it right away, without consulting the manual. But for Responsive sites, Freeway is difficult for me (not for everyone, just for me). And now that Freeway won’t be developed anymore, wisdom dictates every Freeway user find something else. For now, my focus is on Sparkle.

Caleb, you are a well known Freeway master of Responsive layouts. Any further thoughts on this?


Andries, I would be happy to educate you on Illustrator, but that does go beyond the scope of this thread. :slight_smile: But since I don’t mind bending the rules, here it goes:

  1. Launch Illustrator CC.
  2. New document.
  3. Sketch a box on the page.
  4. Window > Align (or use whatever method you like)
  5. Within the Align palette, point your eyes to the bottom right where it says “Align To:” and click that pop-down menu.
  6. Select “Align to Artboard” so a checkmark appears by it.
  7. Now with your box selected, click “Horizontal Align Center” — BAM! Your box is now centered with respect to the page, and you only have a single object selected!

So to ensure this gets back on topic, I would like to see this in Sparkle. Align icons should be contextual and allow aligning of not only multiple selected objects, but also allow aligning with respect to the page.

And there you have it.


Andries & Duncan, regarding TITLE text, my point is that it would be nice if the app empowered me to add TITLE text wherever I want it. TITLE text is like a tooltip. There are simply times when you want to add it. It’s by no means a showstopper. It was just an observation with respect to Freeway. Freeway let’s me add TITLE text. Sparkle doesn’t in many cases.


Andries (and everyone else reading),

“Freeway isn’t Freeway anymore” insofar as we all want Responsive websites now and to accomplish that in Freeway is not intuitive like legacy table-based layouts are. Believe me, I’ve consulted documentation, folks at SoftPress, I’ve reviewed Caleb’s excellent BackDraft and Thomas K’s GridMeister videos, and I’ve listened to Mr. E. Simpson too. I’ve even had a lot of talk with folks off list. But I never created a full featured Responsive (with %-widths and all) website in Freeway. I just didn’t have the time required to do that in Freeway.

With Sparkle, you don’t have %-widths style Responsive, for reasons Duncan has already specified. But we all must admit that if Sparkle can accomplish what the designer intends to do, it will accomplish that more intuitively than Freeway — and keep in mind I speak of RESPONSIVE design here. It’s just that I am viewing Sparkle through a veteran Freeway user’s eyes. My 21-point list is by no means comprehensive. I challenge all you Freeway users, (you too, Paul Dunning), to go through your must-have Freeway features and write them down, then open the Sparkle 2 trial app and see which of those exist and which don’t, then note which would be showstoppers, then post back here.

If we have a good idea of what Sparkle can do for us know, and if we know where the next version is headed, we can better decide if Sparkle is the app to choose or not. It really is that simple.

Best,

James Wages


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You were right James. Standard is the setting Align on Selection, if I
switch to Align to Artboard and then choose an alignment in the top row it
does its job.
In practice I never used it because my Artboard is mostly rather big to
work on it (as a big desk) so I would loose my box in the space :wink:

2016-07-27 2:17 GMT+02:00 JDW email@hidden:

Duncan, my humble thanks for your kindness is explaining in great detail
the matter of Responsive layouts and all the caveats. But in terms of
Freeway being “almost impossible to understand,” it actually is drop dead
intuitive to me when it comes to legacy table-based layouts. Freeway is
the old DTP model of design. My first home computer was a Mac 128k back in
1984 at the age of 13, so I grew up understanding what DTP was all about,
and so when I saw Freeway for the first time back in 1999, I learned how to
use it right away, without consulting the manual. But for Responsive
sites, Freeway is difficult for me (not for everyone, just for me). And
now that Freeway won’t be developed anymore, wisdom dictates every Freeway
user find something else. For now, my focus is on Sparkle.

Caleb, you are a well known Freeway master of Responsive layouts. Any
further thoughts on this?


Andries, I would be happy to educate you on Illustrator, but that does go
beyond the scope of this thread. :slight_smile: But since I don’t mind bending the
rules, here it goes:

  1. Launch Illustrator CC.
  2. New document.
  3. Sketch a box on the page.
  4. Window > Align (or use whatever method you like)
  5. Within the Align palette, point your eyes to the bottom right where it
    says “Align To:” and click that pop-down menu.
  6. Select “Align to Artboard” so a checkmark appears by it.
  7. Now with your box selected, click “Horizontal Align Center” — BAM!
    Your box is now centered with respect to the page, and you only have a
    single object selected!

So to ensure this gets back on topic, I would like to see this in
Sparkle. Align icons should be contextual and allow aligning of not only
multiple selected objects, but also allow aligning with respect to the page.

And there you have it.


Andries & Duncan, regarding TITLE text, my point is that it would be nice
if the app empowered me to add TITLE text wherever I want it. TITLE text
is like a tooltip. There are simply times when you want to add it. It’s
by no means a showstopper. It was just an observation with respect to
Freeway. Freeway let’s me add TITLE text. Sparkle doesn’t in many cases.


Andries (and everyone else reading),

“Freeway isn’t Freeway anymore” insofar as we all want Responsive websites
now and to accomplish that in Freeway is not intuitive like legacy
table-based layouts are. Believe me, I’ve consulted documentation, folks
at SoftPress, I’ve reviewed Caleb’s excellent BackDraft and Thomas K’s
GridMeister videos, and I’ve listened to Mr. E. Simpson too. I’ve even had
a lot of talk with folks off list. But I never created a full featured
Responsive (with %-widths and all) website in Freeway. I just didn’t have
the time required to do that in Freeway.

With Sparkle, you don’t have %-widths style Responsive, for reasons Duncan
has already specified. But we all must admit that if Sparkle can
accomplish what the designer intends to do, it will accomplish that more
intuitively than Freeway — and keep in mind I speak of RESPONSIVE design
here. It’s just that I am viewing Sparkle through a veteran Freeway user’s
eyes. My 21-point list is by no means comprehensive. I challenge all you
Freeway users, (you too, Paul Dunning), to go through your must-have
Freeway features and write them down, then open the Sparkle 2 trial app and
see which of those exist and which don’t, then note which would be
showstoppers, then post back here.

If we have a good idea of what Sparkle can do for us know, and if we know
where the next version is headed, we can better decide if Sparkle is the
app to choose or not. It really is that simple.

Best,

James Wages


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Duncan, if you don’t mind, I have another question. How does Sparkle handle multilingual sites that have a mixture of English and 2-byte text like Japanese?

For English, web fonts are great. For Japanese, it’s more complex because unless you are using KATAKANA or HIRAGANA alone (each about 50 characters), you simply aren’t going to find a KANJI (chinese character) web font because it would have to hold thousands of characters and be a huge download. So what I do in Freeway is create font styles for Japanese that ensure the basic text is a gothic font (similar to helvetica) and is a font common to Windows or the Mac (MS PGothic for older Windows and Meiryo font for newer Windows, along with the Mac versions like Hiragino).

I also have a link on every page in my site to allow the user seamless switching between English and Japanese. You can see that on one of my sites here:

Click the ENGLISH button at right of the menubar and then you can click JAPANESE to get back. And as you dig down into the site you still have the same buttons. And unlike other sites that merely take you to the top page when you click the language button, my site offers you the language swap of the very page you are on at the time.

So obviously, I would want do achieve the same on any new websites I build with a Freeway alternative like Sparkle.

Thank you,

James Wages


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Hey James,

being eu-based means we are super sensible to localization needs. Sparkle itself is translated to 7 languages and we plan on translating the site and manual as well as resources allow.

Sparkle has no problem with multi language sites but doesn’t yet have any special support for them, though we do have several customers using sparkle that way. Sparkle could facilitate it in several ways, we are saving design ideas for a time when we can add a bunch of things all at once and make a big push. We definitely can discuss the current options offline if you want.

Regarding CJK languages there are a couple issues and in general the problems aren’t very well understood outside of user groups who actively use them.

The first and most obvious is how text is encoded in pages. Sparkle can encode both UTF-8 text and pure ascii, the latter is for servers that force a charset in the headers, which break UTF-8. By using Sparkle’s built in publishing this will soon be auto detected and work with no user intervention.

The second is fonts. As you note webfonts are pretty rare because of the sheer number of glyphs. It seems to all boils down to using the proper CSS font stack, which you can do in the Sparkle system font pane. There are a few built in stacks including for common Japanese fonts, but you can change them and add fonts.

As long as you don’t mix Chinese, Japanese and Korean the current Sparkle setup works fine. If you do need to mix them then it’s no longer sufficient because the same character code point maps to different glyphs or similar glyphs but drawn with different strokes. To fix that the “lang” attribute need to be set on the page or on individual paragraphs. Sparkle doesn’t yet support it but we are fully aware and hope to get around to it soon.

Does this answer your question?

Duncan


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Duncan,

Yes, you answered my question quite well.

Thank you!

James Wages


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.


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Barry, here’s yet another single period “.” post by you (Hoffkids). It has the appearance of SPAM, so please explain.

James


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simple… I wanted to know when someone added something to new about these programs but I had nothing to add just yet.

:frowning:


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simple… I wanted to know when someone added something to new about these programs but I had nothing to add just yet.

:frowning:


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While I understand the merits of it, this forum really isn’t a forum at all but rather a glorified email list we can access online. No way to subscribe to threads, edit posts, or delete duplicate posts either.

Thanks for explaining though.


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Just placing a period ‘.’ is rather confusing, its looks like I’m missing a
bunch of text. So please don’t.

Andries

2016-07-30 6:04 GMT+02:00 JDW email@hidden:

While I understand the merits of it, this forum really isn’t a forum at
all but rather a glorified email list we can access online. No way to
subscribe to threads, edit posts, or delete duplicate posts either.

Thanks for explaining though.


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I appreciate all who are posting their experiences with the various FW alternatives. James, thank you for the time you put into this. My question is similar to yours…

Quoting Caleb

One of my issues with it is that it doesn’t create true “responsive” websites.

If there is no way around this, then Sparkle is a non-starter for me. Through Thomas’ videos and Caleb’s backdraft and many late nights dissecting Ernie & DeltaDave, Walt’s et al… emails, I have a handle on inline layouts and responsive design. Yes, Duncan is right, fluid layouts are hard to get right. But I was just beginning to get the hang of them with FW and I don’t want to go backwards.

I really want to like Sparkle. I want there to be an easy answer to my “next-FreeWay app.” Alas, it sounds like Sparkle would be, for me, a giant step backwards.

I challenge all you Freeway users…to go through your must-have Freeway features and write them down…then note which would be showstoppers, then post back here.

I started my list today! I’m glad Sparkle has a free “demo” version. Most of the other options have a one week trial, so I’m trying to get as many ducks line up before I jump in!


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Responsive Foundation Framer is quite an awesome app that –for me– contains everything that Freeway lacked or Softpress just ignored. For $59 you own a registered beta (and later on you get the public release for no additional charge). As the name says; it’s core is Zurb Foundation 6 and it’s also supporting Flexbox. I’m just touching the surface, but wow …

For the users wanting something more; this might be it. The $59 Responsive Foundation Framer Beta purchase came with a 20% OFF YOUR NEXT PURCHASE coupon which I used for purchasing the $299 Responsive Design Pack. For $298 you have licensed versions of every single mac app they offer.

Richard


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This whole responsive thing is bewildering to me, at least a bit.

I went to Sparkle becuase it doesn’t rely on templates, it’s responsive, it doesn’t come with an attached web hosting and it’s insanely easy. Stuff that too me (someone on the lower edge of the Freeway community, to be sure) hours on Freeway take me minutes in Sparkle. It’s completely intuitive, I only looked at the documentation when I had issues a few times. If you can make a Page document, or make a Keynote presentation you can use this program.

But I wonder how one can say that, because it’s not a percentage based layout and is responsive because of break point adjustments that it’s not responsive.

My site was made with break points. I have looked at it on these devices: iMac, IPad (landscape and portrait for all these devices, by the way), iPad mini, iPhone 6, iPhone 4, a Samsung phone running something, and an iPod touch 2nd generation.

The site framed properly on all those devices, so how is that not responsive? And that’s not a rhetorical question, how is it not repsonive if it responds and frames corrrectly to every device I’ve used to look at the site?

I think in Sparkle one uses something like 4 breakpoints and the devices I used had 13 different screen sizes.

I wonder if it is the fact that the devices themselves can adapt to what is presented to them compensates for the lack of percentage based layout?

Needless to say I don’t know how it works so well but I have a hard time saying it’s not responsive.

I also want to thank James for all his work in looking into all these programs and Thomas and Walt for their input.

It’s also great that SoftPress is still keeping this site up. Freeway Talk was probably the best part of the whole Freeway experience.


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Richard, not to in any way whatsoever speak ill of your preferred solution, I feel compelled to point out that if one is willing to pay $300 for a web design package, RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation (Joe Workman) + other stacks you may need will fit neatly within that price point. Food for thought.

Now back to Sparkle. :slight_smile:

marka, you may wish to scroll back up and read all the posts in this thread, especially those by Duncan, developer of Sparkle. We briefly discussed the limited breakpoints in Sparkle. And of course, if Duncan wishes to add something more to that discussion, he certainly has liberty to do so.

–James Wages


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