# Switching text Styles, still a PIA...

**URL:** <https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468>\
**Category:** Freeway\
**Created:** [February 13, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468 "2013-02-13T21:47:03Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 15\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![MacFinn](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@MacFinn](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/MacFinn)\
**Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 9:47pm UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/1 "2013-02-13T21:47:03Z")

</div>

We’re now at Freeway Pro 6 and still the only sure way to switch Style for a text paragraph is 1) select the paragraph (all of it, not just a word in it) 2) select None from the Style list 3) apply a new Style on the paragraph.

And I still cannot understand why FW Pro keeps creating unwanted new Styles whenever it likes. Is there a method to this?

I mean, every DTP app in the 1990’s knew how to handle paragraph styles. Please copy them to Freeway…

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**Author:** ![Joe2](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/3e96dc/32.png) [@Joe2](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/Joe2)\
**Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/2 "2013-02-13T22:27:37Z")

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I must be missing something.

I just created two paragraph styles, one with Times and Left Indent of 20px, the other with Verdana and Right Indent of 20px. I then typed a paragraph of text and placed the cursor right in the middle of said text (not selecting all). I then applied style1 and the whole paragraph used style1. Then I applied style2 and the whole paragraph used a new style, style3 (a combination of style1 and style2 with both left and right indent). I then Command clicked the selected style (style3) to remove it and the whole paragraph was unstyled. I then applied style2 and the whole paragraph used style2.

I suppose Freeway could have removed style1 and applied style2 instead of creating the new combined style, but wouldn’t it be more annoying to have to create a third style with a combination of both styles manually in the case where you’d want that to happen than to simply Command-click on the style to remove it, or use the Styles Inspector to quickly remove and apply styles?

Joe

On 13 Feb 2013, at 21:47, MacFinn [email@hidden](mailto:email@hidden) wrote:

> We’re now at Freeway Pro 6 and still the only sure way to switch Style for a text paragraph is 1) select the paragraph (all of it, not just a word in it) 2) select None from the Style list 3) apply a new Style on the paragraph.
> 
> And I still cannot understand why FW Pro keeps creating unwanted new Styles whenever it likes. Is there a method to this?
> 
> I mean, every DTP app in the 1990’s knew how to handle paragraph styles. Please copy them to Freeway…
> 
> * * *
> 
> freewaytalk mailing list  
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**Author:** ![Ernie\_Simpson](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/a587f6/32.png) [@Ernie\_Simpson](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/Ernie_Simpson)\
**Post date:** [February 13, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/3 "2013-02-13T23:40:08Z")

</div>

As a longtime user I have had, and have heard, many complaints about  
Freeway Pro’s often erratic text style inventions. I am genuinely  
disappointed that any other longtime user would ignore that history, or  
imply that somehow users are at fault for not divining it’s sometimes  
inscrutable logic.

–  
Ernie Simpson

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 5:27 PM, Joe Billings [email@hidden](mailto:email@hidden) wrote:

> I must be missing something.
> 
> I just created two paragraph styles, one with Times and Left Indent of  
> 20px, the other with Verdana and Right Indent of 20px. I then typed a  
> paragraph of text and placed the cursor right in the middle of said text  
> (not selecting all). I then applied style1 and the whole paragraph used  
> style1. Then I applied style2 and the whole paragraph used a new style,  
> style3 (a combination of style1 and style2 with both left and right  
> indent). I then Command clicked the selected style (style3) to remove it  
> and the whole paragraph was unstyled. I then applied style2 and the whole  
> paragraph used style2.
> 
> I suppose Freeway could have removed style1 and applied style2 instead of  
> creating the new combined style, but wouldn’t it be more annoying to have  
> to create a third style with a combination of both styles manually in the  
> case where you’d want that to happen than to simply Command-click on the  
> style to remove it, or use the Styles Inspector to quickly remove and apply  
> styles?
> 
> Joe
> 
> On 13 Feb 2013, at 21:47, MacFinn [email@hidden](mailto:email@hidden) wrote:
> 
> > We’re now at Freeway Pro 6 and still the only sure way to switch Style  
> > for a text paragraph is 1) select the paragraph (all of it, not just a word  
> > in it) 2) select None from the Style list 3) apply a new Style on the  
> > paragraph.
> > 
> > And I still cannot understand why FW Pro keeps creating unwanted new  
> > Styles whenever it likes. Is there a method to this?
> > 
> > I mean, every DTP app in the 1990’s knew how to handle paragraph styles.  
> > Please copy them to Freeway…
> > 
> > * * *
> > 
> > freewaytalk mailing list  
> > email@hidden  
> > Update your subscriptions at:  
> > [http://freewaytalk.net/person/options](http://freewaytalk.net/person/options)
> 
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**Author:** ![Trevor\_Reaveley](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/t/919ad9/32.png) [@Trevor\_Reaveley](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/Trevor_Reaveley)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 7:59am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/4 "2013-02-14T07:59:27Z")

</div>

Hi Joe, I also have a problem with selecting styles. Highlighting the whole paragraph doesn’t bother me, but having to click ‘none’ before actually choosing the correct one is one of the minor niggles that really winds me up. In InDesign and Illustrator you can just go from one style to another, why not Freeway?  
Sorry, don’t like to complain!  
Trev

On 13 Feb 2013, at 22:27, Joe Billings wrote:

> I must be missing something.
> 
> I just created two paragraph styles, one with Times and Left Indent of 20px, the other with Verdana and Right Indent of 20px. I then typed a paragraph of text and placed the cursor right in the middle of said text (not selecting all). I then applied style1 and the whole paragraph used style1. Then I applied style2 and the whole paragraph used a new style, style3 (a combination of style1 and style2 with both left and right indent). I then Command clicked the selected style (style3) to remove it and the whole paragraph was unstyled. I then applied style2 and the whole paragraph used style2.
> 
> I suppose Freeway could have removed style1 and applied style2 instead of creating the new combined style, but wouldn’t it be more annoying to have to create a third style with a combination of both styles manually in the case where you’d want that to happen than to simply Command-click on the style to remove it, or use the Styles Inspector to quickly remove and apply styles?
> 
> Joe
> 
> On 13 Feb 2013, at 21:47, MacFinn [email@hidden](mailto:email@hidden) wrote:
> 
> > We’re now at Freeway Pro 6 and still the only sure way to switch Style for a text paragraph is 1) select the paragraph (all of it, not just a word in it) 2) select None from the Style list 3) apply a new Style on the paragraph.
> > 
> > And I still cannot understand why FW Pro keeps creating unwanted new Styles whenever it likes. Is there a method to this?
> > 
> > I mean, every DTP app in the 1990’s knew how to handle paragraph styles. Please copy them to Freeway…

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**Author:** ![HeatherKay](https://discourse.softpress.com/user_avatar/discourse.softpress.com/heatherkay/32/66_2.png) [@HeatherKay](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/HeatherKay)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:04am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/5 "2013-02-14T08:04:28Z")

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On 13 Feb 2013, at 22:27, Joe Billings wrote:

> I must be missing something.

Possibly. I get this random style generation ALL THE TIME.

Here’s a typical example. I’m working on a site that’s been with me since at least Freeway 3. I have numerous paragraph and word level styles, all set up, all carefully and methodically used. I place my cursor in a styled paragraph to edit the content, start typing, and lo! A whole new temporary style is created.

I know this is going to happen, so I am prepared for it. I use the Inspector Styles panel to weed the critters out, yet I still find I have to modify the occasional one to something like Courier 48px green in order to spot it on the page. They’re often the worst ones, a single word or even character where I may have changed a sentence or a typo.

A new user, though, may not be expecting this bonus style behaviour, and be flummoxed by the multiplicity of new temporary styles arriving in the Styles palette.

The question I have asked many times is why does Freeway do this? I understand the mechanism of temporary styles, and I have used it to generate permanent styles when developing a new site. But why, oh why, does Freeway create a temporary style when a perfectly sensible permanent style is already applied?

So much time is wasted weeding out these random styles. It is at best an annoying habit. If it isn’t a bug - which I am certain it is - then what is the rational explanation for this behaviour?

Heather

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## Imagic Design \* Good Design - No Compromise email@hidden [http://www.imagic-design.co.uk](http://www.imagic-design.co.uk) Twitter @Imagic-Design T: 01634 864017

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**Author:** ![MacFinn](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@MacFinn](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/MacFinn)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:07am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/6 "2013-02-14T08:07:16Z")

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I very rarely type any text in Freeway, excepting the creation of CSS Menus. Just about all text is created in another app. And then I copy/paste the text.

I don’t think I’ve ever been able to choose a paragraph style2 for text that’s earlier been formatted to paragraph style1 without making sure that the unseen ¶-character is selected too.

FW6 seems to create these new styles just like previous versions but now some of them are automatically deleted as well. Well, perhaps that’s progress…

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**Author:** ![HeatherKay](https://discourse.softpress.com/user_avatar/discourse.softpress.com/heatherkay/32/66_2.png) [@HeatherKay](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/HeatherKay)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:12am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/7 "2013-02-14T08:12:53Z")

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On 14 Feb 2013, at 08:07, MacFinn wrote:

> FW6 seems to create these new styles just like previous versions but now some of them are automatically deleted as well. Well, perhaps that’s progress…

Ah, no, that is expected behaviour.

The very nature of a temp style is it will disappear if the text that used it is deleted or edited. Freeway tries to be tidy, but sometimes misses the point.

=o)

Heather

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## Imagic Design \* Good Design - No Compromise email@hidden [http://www.imagic-design.co.uk](http://www.imagic-design.co.uk) Twitter @Imagic-Design T: 01634 864017

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**Author:** ![MacFinn](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@MacFinn](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/MacFinn)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 8:18am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/8 "2013-02-14T08:18:27Z")

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As an answer to Joe.

I’m pretty methodotical in using Styles. I do play around a bit when first designing a new site. But when the design is ready and I move to producing the site, I really really hate these extra Styles popping up. I have set my mind to a handful of Styles for the site. No extras allowed!

I have worked with PageMaker, InDesign (and some others). And have never ever seen this kind of Styles behavior.

This just wastes my time and I really hate doing pointless chores while I work.

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**Author:** ![HeatherKay](https://discourse.softpress.com/user_avatar/discourse.softpress.com/heatherkay/32/66_2.png) [@HeatherKay](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/HeatherKay)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 9:37am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/9 "2013-02-14T09:37:12Z")

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On 14 Feb 2013, at 08:04, Heather Kavanagh wrote:

> Possibly. I get this random style generation ALL THE TIME.

Replying to myself, but I’m already barking so it doesn’t matter.

I made a video to demonstrate the temporary style behaviour when editing text already covered by a perfectly acceptable permanent style.

[http://imagic-design.co.uk/client/bug/](http://imagic-design.co.uk/client/bug/)

Why does it do this? Why is a single character content edit spawning a new temporary style?

Heather

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## Imagic Design \* Good Design - No Compromise email@hidden [http://www.imagic-design.co.uk](http://www.imagic-design.co.uk) Twitter @Imagic-Design T: 01634 864017

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**Author:** ![Joe2](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/3e96dc/32.png) [@Joe2](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/Joe2)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 10:06am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/10 "2013-02-14T10:06:47Z")

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Ok. So there seems to be three issues here.

1. When you apply a paragraph style you need to select the entire paragraph to apply it. Are you sure the style you’re applying is a paragraph style? It will have a ¶ alongside it in the Styles dialog if so. If it doesn’t, it’s correct that you would need to select all that you want to apply a character level style to. Tip - you can select an entire paragraph by clicking 4 times. Click 5 times to select the entire contents of an item.

2. When you apply a style to already styled text, the styles are combined to create a temporary style. This is by design, though perhaps an option to replace styles instead of combining would be useful? I can’t promise anything (there may be development constraints) but it might be a possibility. Tip – you can command-click an applied style to remove it before selecting the new one.

3. When you start typing, an unwanted temporary style is created. We have this logged already – I’ll bump up the priority on it. Heather, the video you posted is marked as private but I think we already have repeatable steps here. If you mark it as public I’ll check to see if its the same problem or not and log it if not.

Cheers,  
Joe

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**Author:** ![HeatherKay](https://discourse.softpress.com/user_avatar/discourse.softpress.com/heatherkay/32/66_2.png) [@HeatherKay](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/HeatherKay)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 10:12am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/11 "2013-02-14T10:12:28Z")

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On 14 Feb 2013, at 10:06, Joe Billings wrote:

> If you mark it as public I’ll check to see if its the same problem or not and log it if not.

I thought that would be the case. I’ve switched it to unlisted.

Cheers

Heather

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**Author:** ![MacFinn](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@MacFinn](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/MacFinn)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 10:18am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/12 "2013-02-14T10:18:06Z")

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Joe, I bought my first version of Freeway Pro in Feb 5. 2002 and have been using it since. So yes, I think I know the difference with character and paragraph styles by now.

Weeding out unwanted temporary styles is so time consuming that I’ve given it up years ago. If I do get them all, next time I edit the site file, there they are again. Most of my site files have 5-10 of them all the time. Please do something about them. I don’t need ANY temporary styles. Not one.

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**Author:** ![eus2](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/73ab20/32.png) [@eus2](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/eus2)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 10:56am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/13 "2013-02-14T10:56:31Z")

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have to agree, its annoying. probably fact that i’m an autistic one, the chaos it makes in my files 😃 but its annoying!  
would love a solution that changes the styles in one that is in your set up, or gives a warning that you use a style not listed in your css!

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**Author:** ![Joe2](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/j/3e96dc/32.png) [@Joe2](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/Joe2)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 10:58am UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/14 "2013-02-14T10:58:12Z")

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On 14 Feb 2013, at 10:18, MacFinn [email@hidden](mailto:email@hidden) wrote:

> Joe, I bought my first version of Freeway Pro in Feb 5. 2002 and have been using it since. So yes, I think I know the difference with character and paragraph styles by now.

Ok noted. Apologies for pointing out the obvious – I’m sure you understand the need though. I’d love to see some repeatable steps, if you can spare the time. If it’s the case that you’re not able to apply a paragraph style without selecting the entire paragraph (or the invisible) then it needs to be logged. As I mentioned, I’m not seeing that behaviour here, nor have I in the past.

> Weeding out unwanted temporary styles is so time consuming that I’ve given it up years ago. If I do get them all, next time I edit the site file, there they are again. Most of my site files have 5-10 of them all the time. Please do something about them. I don’t need ANY temporary styles. Not one.

Agreed. This is something that needs addressing.

Cheers,  
Joe

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**Author:** ![Ernie\_Simpson](https://discourse.softpress.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/e/a587f6/32.png) [@Ernie\_Simpson](https://discourse.softpress.com/u/Ernie_Simpson)\
**Post date:** [February 14, 2013, 3:20pm UTC](https://discourse.softpress.com/t/switching-text-styles-still-a-pia/16468/15 "2013-02-14T15:20:48Z")

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Here are two of my favorite, repeatable, demonstrable, annoying Freeway Pro  
style cock-ups…

A. Freeway makes an un-necessary and un-requested temporary style every  
time a header selection is edited

Steps to repeat this:

1. Put some text into a container and style it with a header style (h1, h2,  
h3, etc.)

2. Highlight a word or portion of the text and replace it

3. Look at the Styles menu and weep

Workarounds:

- Use Backspace to delete unwanted words and letters one-at-a-time before  
carefully entering changes…

- Immediately select the entire header then command-click the unwanted  
style away. Repeat until you are completely insane.

- Wait until later to delete the style so you can waste time trying to  
guess which was the original to replace it with.

* * *

B. Lists lose their styling when any link in the list is altered

Steps to repeat this:

1. Create a list of items and apply a list style to it

2. Set some hyperlinks within the list

3. Select the link and change it

4. Watch in horror as the entire list loses its style

Workarounds:

- Re-select the entire list then re-apply the style…

- Repeat every time you make a change to the hyperlink. Get used to it.

* * *

[http://cssway.thebigerns.com/workbench/text-style-issues/](http://cssway.thebigerns.com/workbench/text-style-issues/)

–  
Ernie Simpson

On Thu, Feb 14, 2013 at 5:58 AM, Joe Billings [email@hidden](mailto:email@hidden) wrote:

> On 14 Feb 2013, at 10:18, MacFinn [email@hidden](mailto:email@hidden) wrote:
> 
> > Joe, I bought my first version of Freeway Pro in Feb 5. 2002 and have  
> > been using it since. So yes, I think I know the difference with character  
> > and paragraph styles by now.
> 
> Ok noted. Apologies for pointing out the obvious – I’m sure you  
> understand the need though. I’d love to see some repeatable steps, if you  
> can spare the time. If it’s the case that you’re not able to apply a  
> paragraph style without selecting the entire paragraph (or the invisible)  
> then it needs to be logged. As I mentioned, I’m not seeing that behaviour  
> here, nor have I in the past.
> 
> > Weeding out unwanted temporary styles is so time consuming that I’ve  
> > given it up years ago. If I do get them all, next time I edit the site  
> > file, there they are again. Most of my site files have 5-10 of them all the  
> > time. Please do something about them. I don’t need ANY temporary styles.  
> > Not one.
> 
> Agreed. This is something that needs addressing.
> 
> Cheers,  
> Joe
> 
> * * *
> 
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