Target Show Hide Layer issue....

Sometimes these kind of things give you headache when you can’t figure out how to make things work… here we have a simple one:

I have 8 different rollovers that trigger 8 layers (via Target Show Hide Layer), but no. 1 needs to load as the page loads and disappears when you go to the other rollovers (and of course, is a rollover itself).

Any help appreciated how to go about…

Thanks!

Paul


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To do this, you need to have two copies of this first item. One is a
regular picture or layer on the page, with no Actions applied. This
should be moved to the back of the stack. The other is a layer with
the Action applied, but set to initially hidden, just like all the
other layers in the stack.

When you first arrive at the page, all of the target layers are
hidden. When you mouse over the first trigger, the first layer
appears, but nothing seems to change. When you mouse over the second
trigger, the first layer hides and the second layer appears. And if
you mouse back over the first, the second layer hides and the first
one appears. The illusion is complete.

Walter

On May 27, 2009, at 5:50 AM, paulvw wrote:

Sometimes these kind of things give you headache when you can’t
figure out how to make things work… here we have a simple one:

I have 8 different rollovers that trigger 8 layers (via Target Show
Hide Layer), but no. 1 needs to load as the page loads and
disappears when you go to the other rollovers (and of course, is a
rollover itself).

Any help appreciated how to go about…

Thanks!

Paul


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Whoops… I forgot to tell you that the original one (no.1) is bigger than the others… so the one with no action will be visible - sticking out quite a bit.
I assume I have to make the other ones bigger by adding the background color to the picture then…?

Paul


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Yes, you should be doing that in any case. Make a stack of absolutely
same-size elements, make sure that they all obscure one another
(either by raw content size or by padding them with color) then turn
on/off as you need.

Walter

On May 27, 2009, at 8:03 AM, paulvw wrote:

Whoops… I forgot to tell you that the original one (no.1) is
bigger than the others… so the one with no action will be
visible - sticking out quite a bit.
I assume I have to make the other ones bigger by adding the
background color to the picture then…?

Paul


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Indeed that works. However… the missing element we have then is that we need to turn off the ‘fade’ in the action. Otherwise you will see a bit of the original picture when going to the next rollover… Too bad…

Paul


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Aha. You are correct. This method of working around the limitations of
the current Action is long-standing, predating any of the Scripty add-
ons. The trouble is that the current system is bound to the old way,
and that means that the initially visible setting is a one-way thing.

There’s a much better way to organize this effect, but it’s going to
take a ground-up rewrite of the entire target / rollover action
structure to permit it. The next version of Prototype will introduce
the mouseenter/mouseleave event to all supported browsers, and that
will make this something of a cake-walk to do. It will move most of
the effect to a loosely-coupled set of event listeners, which will
make it simple to create a set of images, hide all but the first one,
and then toggle them going forward. But I wouldn’t expect that before
the end of the summer.

Walter

On May 27, 2009, at 8:30 AM, paulvw wrote:

Indeed that works. However… the missing element we have then is
that we need to turn off the ‘fade’ in the action. Otherwise you
will see a bit of the original picture when going to the next
rollover… Too bad…

Paul


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Yes, yes, yes! That sounds good! Thanks for that explenation. I have made some websites and played around with ‘illusions’ and ‘tricks’ to get certain effects. Honestly speaking, sometimes even proud of myself :wink: But, I also realize that extended actions would have made my job much easier. So… things are on their way then. Great!

Actions that can trigger different things with different items would be a challenge to make I assume.
Have a look at a test website here: http://www.leprazending.nl/NIEUWESITE/
and: Geschiedenis Leprazending - Leprazending
The navigation that triggers stuff combined with CSS was quite tricky and I just hope that it will work on all browsers…

Thanks Walter.

By the way: the effect I started this thread I did implement on the last link


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I have the same problem. I’ve had it for years actually and now it has gotten so annoying that I have to write about it here today.

I have four 24-bit PNG images with transparency, all the same size and stacked atop eachother. One of those PNGs must be visible when the page loads. Then when I mouseover one of 3 rollovers on that same page, I want to fade out the first PNG and fade in another.

If Target Show/Hide Layer would merely give me the ability to assign “Multiple Targets” to a layer then I could accomplish my aim so easily! In such a case, I would just set the initial graphic (the one you must see when the page loads) to be “Visible” and the other graphics to be “Hidden.” I would then give a single Target # to each of the Hidden graphics, but then give ALL of those same Target #'s to the original Visible graphic. Then the Visible graphic would hide when I mouseover each of my 3 rollovers. The concept here is so easy and works within the same basic structure of the Target Show/Hide Layer action, but sadly the Target Show/Hide Layer action does not empower me to assign Multiple Target #'s to the same item! What a pain!

Therefore, could any of you Action writers show me how to hack the Target Show/Hide Layer action so I can enable it to accept Multiple Target #'s? I’d rather do that that add a bunch of code to the page (not that I know what code I would need in such a case either).

Your kind assistance would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

James Wages


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Well, I’ve about had it with this. I’ve spent the last 2.5 hours in vain trying to find a way to get around the current limited functionality. I tried all the “Target” actions the come standard with Freeway, and I also downloaded and tried Hide Slaves and Show on Slave Trigger. No combination of any actions I tried could accomplish the extremely simple aim set forth in my previous post here.

Can anyone restore my sanity? There HAS to be a way!


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Hi James,

I was playing around with this just the other day for another
customer. Take a look at the alternate Hide Slaves Action here:

http://actionsforge.com/actions/view/166-hide-slaves-alternate

Joe

On 27 Aug 2009, at 06:38, JDW wrote:

Well, I’ve about had it with this. I’ve spent the last 2.5 hours in
vain trying to find a way to get around the current limited
functionality. I tried all the “Target” actions the come standard
with Freeway, and I also downloaded and tried Hide Slaves and Show
on Slave Trigger. No combination of any actions I tried could
accomplish the extremely simple aim set forth in my previous post
here.

Can anyone restore my sanity? There HAS to be a way!


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Thank you for the info on that Action, Joe. It was one I had not tried. Even so, I just tried it and found that it doesn’t solve my problem. I followed the instructions for that action in accordance with what is written at the URL you gave me. But here is what happens when I use it:

  1. Preview my page and see my graphic with the “Hide Slaves Alt” action applied to it – let’s call it “graphic-A”. Good so far.
  2. I mouseover my rollover. My graphic-A hides (which is good) and my rollover graphic appears (which is good).
  3. I then move my mouse off the rollover. My rollover graphic vanishes (which is good), but graphic-A doesn’t come back. I want it to be visible again when I roll-off my rollover. That’s my problem.

Further thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks,

James Wages


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James, I am not sure what you want exactly but have a look at this test-page: it has several rather complicated hide/show effects that I wa able to accomplish after hours of fighting… :wink: . Certain actions happens at teh same time when you go over the buttons: http://www.leprazending.nl/NIEUWESITE/

Paul


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Paul, thank you for the reply.

I “sort of” want to do what you are doing but not exactly the same thing. You see, I want to show a graphic normally, then when I mouseover a rollover, that graphic should TEMPORARILY fade away and another same-sized graphic should appear in its place. Then when I move my cursor OFF the rollover, the original graphic should fade back into visibility while the rollover graphic fades away.

Keep in mind my graphics are 24-bit, semi-transparent PNG files – and I want to keep that aspect of my design too.

To make this 100% clear to yourself, Joe and all else reading this, I have made a video with voice-over, showing and telling you exactly what the problem is:

http://www.kiramek.com/21test95/Rollovers_n_Targets.mov

Honestly, this is such a small thing that so many Freeway users probably want to do all the time, I am just shocked that Freeway is still unable to empower users to accomplish this very simple rollover task.

Solutions for this would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

James Wages


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To get this effect, the rollover needs to trigger several operations. In effect, it’s like an animation. The problem is that with only two images (VISION and SECURITY), there’s always a blank space. If it was an animation, there’d be an empty frame.

I worked round this by adding a second ‘VISION’ and trying different combinations of the ‘Initially’ and ‘Restore’ states. The second ‘VISION’ takes the place of the empty frame.

This works in Safari and Firefox.

The settings are on this screengrab:
http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1mRJi9Ik9gatYJ1O8Nl7CBLJhFrTvo0


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In order to make things appear and disappear I often create FAKE rollovers around the items. Meaning, empty boxes with the approprate actions applied to it. Did you play around with that idea as well? A lot is possible then…

Hope this helps.

Paul


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Paul,
I don’t want the cursor in the browser to change until you mouseover the actual clickable links (in my case, the small area of the screen as defined by the actual VISION, SCIBORG, LUMINATOR logos). The creation of “fake” rollovers works, of course. But your cursor then changes when you rollover those fakes (i.e., outside the area of the logos where I want people to click), thereby causing confusion.

Ian,
I am not in the office right now and therefore cannot test your method. I will be in China all next week on business, so the test will have to wait another week until I get back.

Thanks.


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Ian, I’m in the office now and have been testing your suggestion. Unfortunately, it does not work. But perhaps you simply misunderstood my aim.

I matched your settings exactly, but when I roll-OFF the gold VISION logo (the “rollover”), nothing happens. That is the entire problem. I WANT something to happen when I roll OFF the rollover.

In the example you so kindly created for me, you had it backwards, but that did not affect my ability to properly test your suggestion. In your example, you had the VISION text duplicated twice with only one instance of SCIBORG. It actually is the reverse of that – I want SCIBORG showing all the time. But again, that is not the problem here.

What I want is to see SCIBORG appear at right when someone first loads my page. No problem there, I can do that very easily. I then want to be able to mouseover my gold VISION rollover graphic and have SCIBORG vanish and VISION appear in its place. I can accomplish that feat just fine too. But the next thing I want to happen is the problem point: I want to now move my mouse cursor OFF the rollover to make VISION vanish and SCIBORG show again just like when the page first loads.

So you see, it is the roll-OFF that is the problem point. Paul recognized that fact, which is why he suggested fake rollovers to solve the problem. But that is not a good solution because when you mouseover any rollover, your cursor changes in such a way you think you are over a clickable link. But since such rollovers would be fake in that case, clicking them would do nothing and it would confuse the user. CLEARLY, I am not out to confuse people on our website.

I would therefore appreciate further thoughts and suggestions in light of this. (Perhaps SoftPress would like to chime in with a magic solution?)

Thank you,

James Wages


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Hi James,

Other than leaving the image you want to appear once a rollover has
been rolled off with no Action applied to it at all (so it just sort
of stays there at the back of the stack), I can’t see a way of doing
this that doesn’t involve considerable work to the Action. I’ll log it
as a feature request.

Joe

On 7 Sep 2009, at 04:00, JDW wrote:

Ian, I’m in the office now and have been testing your suggestion.
Unfortunately, it does not work. But perhaps you simply
misunderstood my aim.

I matched your settings exactly, but when I roll-OFF the gold VISION
logo (the “rollover”), nothing happens. That is the entire
problem. I WANT something to happen when I roll OFF the rollover.

In the example you so kindly created for me, you had it backwards,
but that did not affect my ability to properly test your
suggestion. In your example, you had the VISION text duplicated
twice with only one instance of SCIBORG. It actually is the reverse
of that – I want SCIBORG showing all the time. But again, that is
not the problem here.

What I want is to see SCIBORG appear at right when someone first
loads my page. No problem there, I can do that very easily. I then
want to be able to mouseover my gold VISION rollover graphic and
have SCIBORG vanish and VISION appear in its place. I can
accomplish that feat just fine too. But the next thing I want to
happen is the problem point: I want to now move my mouse cursor OFF
the rollover to make VISION vanish and SCIBORG show again just like
when the page first loads.

So you see, it is the roll-OFF that is the problem point. Paul
recognized that fact, which is why he suggested fake rollovers to
solve the problem. But that is not a good solution because when you
mouseover any rollover, your cursor changes in such a way you think
you are over a clickable link. But since such rollovers would be
fake in that case, clicking them would do nothing and it would
confuse the user. CLEARLY, I am not out to confuse people on our
website.

I would therefore appreciate further thoughts and suggestions in
light of this. (Perhaps SoftPress would like to chime in with a
magic solution?)

Thank you,

James Wages


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I certainly appreciate that, Joe.


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The settings on the screengrab:

http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=1dDmpAg5UoAuadzyy4IFWGl7l3JlVx

…enable the following results:

On page load, SECURITY displays.
When the cursor is positioned over the logo, VISION appears.
When the mouse is moved away, SECURITY reappears.

To display two or items at the same time as VISION (or SECURITY), give the items the same settings (as VISION or SECURITY).


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