Trying to use bullet points in Freeway Pro 6

Why is it so impossibly difficult to get HTML text with bullets points to behave correctly within Freeway Pro? It is next to impossible to keep the bullet points the same color as the text and for the bullet points to appear where they should. For what is a one minute layout in Text Edit is taking hours to do within Freeway and I have yet to get three text blocks to act the same. It is almost looking like I should not use bullet points when using Freeway. What’s up with that??!!?!?!!?

This is terribly frustrating when doing HTML5 animation is easier than laying out some simple text!


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As I am editing the text block with bullet points, the bullet points remain the same color as the text, but when live, the bullet points turn back to black. They can be surrounded by white text, but yet the bullet points are black. I have tried and tried and tried and I have yet to get three out of three text blocks correct. Each one acts differently!

Is Freeway Pro suitable for bullet points, or is this a useless waste of my time? I usually have pages and pages made by now. I swear I have never liked how Freeway handles text!


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Why is it so impossibly difficult to get HTML text with bullets points to
behave correctly within Freeway Pro? It is next to impossible to keep the
bullet points the same color as the text and for the bullet points to
appear where they should.

I get that you are frustrated, so please don’t get angry when I say that
what you are describing is not a problem in Freeway Pro unless you have
mucked up something else style-wise.

If you can provide a link to an example of the problem, then I and others
here have a better chance at uncovering the specific cause of your problem.
Without looking at your html/css my best guess would be that you have
span-styled the individual list items instead of a single style declaration
for the whole list. Span styles will style everything BUT the bullets.

Best,

Ernie Simpson, aka The Big Erns


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Hey Ernie, thanks for offering to help. I do not have a link to an example of it not acting as I need it. This is the page that finally works: http://denverautotransmissions.com/Diagnostics-for-Transmissions-Clutches-Differentials-free-with-repairs-at-our-shop.html It was just amazing how much time and effort to get that all to come out as it looks now.

I’m not certain what you mean by Span styles. (But I will look for that now in the references.)

Layout out the text to look correct on the browsers is enough of a problem, but just getting it to layout in Freeway seems to have been difficult for me since using it starting in Spring 2009.

Thanks,

Robert


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Hey Robert,

When you look at the Styles palette, you’ll notice some have the paragraph
symbol ( ¶ ) in front of their names. While it’s more complex than that,
essentially styles that have that symbol will apply to a whole block - like
a paragraph of text. Styles without that symbol apply only to selected
text.

It’s these limited text selections that become span styles – named for the
html tag that is written in the page code. Anything between the span
tags is styled that way, and when a list item is styled that way, the
bullet is left untouched as it is set on the list style.

People often come to Freeway Pro to avoid technical details such as this,
but it is sometimes helpful to know these little things.

Best, always…

Ernie Simpson

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 2:28 AM, Rgator email@hidden wrote:

Hey Ernie, thanks for offering to help. I do not have a link to an example
of it not acting as I need it. This is the page that finally works: <
http://denverautotransmissions.com/Diagnostics-for-Transmissions-Clutches-Differentials-free-with-repairs-at-our-shop.html>
It was just amazing how much time and effort to get that all to come out as
it looks now.

I’m not certain what you mean by Span styles. (But I will look for that
now in the references.)

Layout out the text to look correct on the browsers is enough of a
problem, but just getting it to layout in Freeway seems to have been
difficult for me since using it starting in Spring 2009.

Thanks,

Robert


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I have looked through the PDF reference for Freeway and I am not able to find anything about “span styles”. I wasn’t trying to do anything unusual, just some straight up text with some bullet points and I found it impossible to keep normal paragraphs together with the bullets points if I wanted the bullet points to be the same color as the text.

Then the three separate text blocks of bullet points took many, many attempts before they all came out. Crazy difficult. Do the same thing three times in a row and get different results each time. You would think this would be a simple matter in Freeway.

Thanks,

Robert


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I’m saying it IS a simple matter in FWP… that it wasn’t so for you is
likely due to user experience. Glad that it is all sorted now, but hope
next time will be more straight-forward for you.

There likely won’t be mention of “span styles” in the documentation - there
likely won’t be mention of a lot of terms we use on the forum. Softpress
uses fantasy language to protect you from the horrors of using real-world
terms. This leads to confusion when you brush against the real world of web
design… there is no kerning, leading, space before (or after).

As I said before, a span is a style Freeway applies only to selections and
can be recognized in the Styles palette as lacking the paragraph symbol ¶
next to it. It is called a span style because the code it writes uses the
tag.

Best,


Ernie Simpson

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Rgator email@hidden wrote:

I have looked through the PDF reference for Freeway and I am not able to
find anything about “span styles”. I wasn’t trying to do anything unusual,
just some straight up text with some bullet points and I found it
impossible to keep normal paragraphs together with the bullets points if I
wanted the bullet points to be the same color as the text.

Then the three separate text blocks of bullet points took many, many
attempts before they all came out. Crazy difficult. Do the same thing three
times in a row and get different results each time. You would think this
would be a simple matter in Freeway.

Thanks,

Robert


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Freeway goes really far toward mapping the language and gestures of Desktop Publishing onto Web design. This can fail you when there are no words in DTP for what you can easily express in HTML.

In HTML, a span is a tag – a container element – similar to a P (paragraph) or a DIV (HTML box in Freeway-speak). There are dozens of different tags in HTML, and each of them has a specific and often unique purpose.

When you see a list on screen, what you are seeing is a structured collection of tags. The outer UL tag (unordered list) contains any number of LI (list item) tags, and within those LI tags are the content of the list. The bullets and their color are created not by styling the content of the LI tags, but by the intersection of the UL and LI. That same LI could appear within an OL (ordered list) and when it does, the markers of the list will be numbers. Changing one letter in the parent tag name makes that entire change.

In DTP, you would type the • bullet character into your text, and then changing that to a numbered list, you would change each marker from • to 3. or whatever you needed. The bullets or other markers are a part of the text, so you style them inline the same way you would style any other text visible on screen. And here the perfect mapping between DTP and HTML is broken and you can easily lose your way.

So the color of the bullets cannot come from within the LI, it has to come from without. The easiest way to alter the color of the text and the bullets together is to create a paragraph style, as Ernie suggested, that combines the list styling and the color you need. Once you make that style and apply it to multiple paragraphs of text, those paragraphs will be wrapped up in a list where all of the color appears continuous.

When you select a few words in Freeway and change the color of that text, or make it larger for emphasis or change the font, you are most likely creating a span tag around those words, within the context of your outer paragraph or other container tag. Here’s what that looks like in HTML:

<p>
	This is some text and <span class="bigRed">some other text</span> here.
</p>

The words ‘some other text’ might be big and red at this point, if you haven’t changed your mind about the styling choice in the interim. More often than not, the actual style name will be style125 or something equally opaque, made up on the fly by Freeway in response to your ad-hoc styling in the Text Inspector.

If you create a list by first applying the list formatting with the Text Inspector, and then later change the color of that text by highlighting it and changing the color (also in the Inspector), then the very best you can hope for is something like this:

<ul>
	<li><span class="style345">A list item here</span></li>
	<li><span class="style345">A list item here</span></li>
	<li><span class="style345">A list item here</span></li>
	<li><span class="style345">A list item here</span></li>
</ul>

The words will be whatever color is declared in style345, but the bullets will be whatever the default text color is for the entire page.

But once you move the color style out to the UL, you will get what you need, which is this:

<ul class="myGreenList">
	<li>A list item here</li>
	<li>A list item here</li>
	<li>A list item here</li>
	<li>A list item here</li>
</ul>

Not only is this much more concise code – more readable and understandable and containing fewer copy-and-paste bits of styling information – it will look the way you want it to.

Walter

On Sep 23, 2013, at 3:32 AM, Ernie Simpson wrote:

I’m saying it IS a simple matter in FWP… that it wasn’t so for you is
likely due to user experience. Glad that it is all sorted now, but hope
next time will be more straight-forward for you.

There likely won’t be mention of “span styles” in the documentation - there
likely won’t be mention of a lot of terms we use on the forum. Softpress
uses fantasy language to protect you from the horrors of using real-world
terms. This leads to confusion when you brush against the real world of web
design… there is no kerning, leading, space before (or after).

As I said before, a span is a style Freeway applies only to selections and
can be recognized in the Styles palette as lacking the paragraph symbol ¶
next to it. It is called a span style because the code it writes uses the
tag.

Best,


Ernie Simpson

On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 2:49 AM, Rgator email@hidden wrote:

I have looked through the PDF reference for Freeway and I am not able to
find anything about “span styles”. I wasn’t trying to do anything unusual,
just some straight up text with some bullet points and I found it
impossible to keep normal paragraphs together with the bullets points if I
wanted the bullet points to be the same color as the text.

Then the three separate text blocks of bullet points took many, many
attempts before they all came out. Crazy difficult. Do the same thing three
times in a row and get different results each time. You would think this
would be a simple matter in Freeway.

Thanks,

Robert


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Hey Walter!!!

Thanks for the explanation! Now since I really am nothing more than a WYSIWYG user, I’m really going to have to read this several times to “wrap my head” around this.

Certainly makes sense that what I would like to see happen easily can happen in Freeway, I just have to understand it in a way that makes sense to me.

I was not able to figure out why I finally got each text box to finally work for me, because each one took a lot of trying and it seem that each one took a different means of attempt to make happen. I have about 2 1/2 hours in making those 3 little text boxes with bullet points!!! I’m sure if I were to try this again, I would still have a huge problem on my hand.

I think I actually need to “see” more of the situation so that I can make this happen correctly, but I have zero understanding of CSS and little HTML which is exactly why I use a WYSIWYG program.

Thanks for the help,

Robert


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