Just testing here to see if my comment posts, as my the one I posted earlier didn’t take.
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Haven’t checked-in in a while…nice to find this update! In the meantime, I’ve been tinkering with PineGrow Pro (bought it) and CoffeeCup (until the trial ran out).
Would like to take this Freeway new development opportunity to express my top “wish list” items. First, I’ll voice some of my likes and dislikes of Pinegrow and CC to put them in context:
I like Pinegrow for the following reasons: Can open up other sites from any program (no need to rebuild), brings in the style sheets, etc. (so far, perfectly!). The latest version includes a built-in CMS that is very easy to apply to any element that you would want clients to be able to edit themselves. (I should add that Muse now has a built-in CMS, albeit limited) that also enables the desktop file to automatically update to include any in-browser changes.) I also like that Pinegrove is a combination of visual and coding. I’m not an expert coder by any means, but I like that I can easily access it when I want or need to. On the flip-side, while Pinegrove has much flexibility, it also has a big learning curve (I’m still at it) and there are certain things about the interface I wish were different and more intuitive.
CoffeeCup: Fun, intuitive interface. Lots of add-on components and always developing more. They say they are working on the ability to edit visible code (side panel type-thing) and a built-in CMS feature, as people have been asking for these, but they don’t have a roll out date. A new version is coming out soon, but it doesn’t look like it will include these yet. They definitely will not be offering the ability to open up sites created in other programs.
So, for Freeway Pro, my top wish items for the new version are: 1. Easy, built-in CMS (to allow clients to edit specific areas…text, photos, videos, etc.—a must-have these days.) I’m aware there are 3rd party plug-ins available, but prefer to have all-in-one, and even better if the desktop file could pull-in any changes made by the client (like Muse does); 2; Ability to edit code in a side panel or pop-up, rather than buried in extended panes, etc.; 3. Fresh, new interface— as much as I like FW, I always felt the interface was a bit clunky and dated; 4. Ability to open up other html sites. I realize this last one may be the toughest from a programming aspect, but it would be great. It could also encourage non-users to transfer over (like InDesign did with Quark…subsequently replacing Quark as the professional design industry standard.)
If the new FW Pro could incorporate all or most of these, it could leap beyond its competition, as none of them contain all these features. I realize I’m looking for perfection, but it doesn’t hurt to ask. 
In the meantime, I won’t begin new sites using FW, as it will affect my professional credibility if a client ask what program I’m creating their website in or googles Freeway to find the company has gone out of business.
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Personally, I think this is a weird thing to think… I have been building and designing sites for 20 years with literally thousands of items such emailers, websites, print items, video work, and no client has ever asked what I have created the item in.
If I were you I wouldn’t worry
max
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Personally, I think this is a weird thing to think… I have been building and designing sites for 20 years with literally thousands of items such emailers, websites, print items, video work, and no client has ever asked what I have created the item in.
Agree - all my sites are built with html and css - the actual application is just not relevant!
D
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Just tell your client you use a variety of tools, not excluding hand-coding (which we all do to some extend even within Freeway). It’s not like a client needs to know every little secret you employ to get the job done. Maybe they are asking so they can go out and buy the tool you mention so they can then ditch you!
James W.
Proud user of Freeway, since 1999.
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Thing is, adding a CMS on top of a Freeway site is easy. As long as you’ve taken the time to learn how to do it.
"No pain, no gain” and all that 
–
David Owen
Creative Design | Print Production | Web Design & Strategy | Domains & Web Hosting
On 7 Mar 2017, at 19:20, qhrider email@hidden wrote:
- Easy, built-in CMS (to allow clients to edit specific areas…text, photos, videos, etc.—a must-have these days.)
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On 7 Mar 2017, 11:25 pm, DeltaDave wrote:
Personally, I think this is a weird thing to think… I have been building and designing sites for 20 years with literally thousands of items such emailers, websites, print items, video work, and no client has ever asked what I have created the item in.
Agree - all my sites are built with html and css - the actual application is just not relevant!
I’ve had a client who, after finding out I was a Mac user, often asked me, “can you do that on a Mac?” (she didn’t even know that I used Freeway) I learned to not bother telling them anything about my tools like that. What’s important is that you get the job done efficiently and well.
OTOH, it’s good to tell fellow Mac users who are or want to get into web work about Freeway and spread the word!
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Thanks for your input. Regarding beginning new sites in FW at this time, it’s great that those of you who commented are still comfortable using it, I’m just saying that it’s not the correct situation for me it at this time. It’s not just clients (I agree they don’t need to know all the details, nor do I offer them, but they do ask, as they are informed and curious), but it’s also professional colleagues and strategic partners with whom I sometimes collaborate. Working in defunct software just won’t cut it. When the company and software are back in full swing, I will be very excited to look at it again.
As for the CMS, I did write that a CMS can be added to a FW site and I’ve done so, it was merely a suggestion and something I would like to see. If the competition is already beginning to incorporate such a feature, it would make sense for FW to consider doing the same.
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I understand the need to collaborate with others. Working for a manufacturer, I use FW to create full-site templates for dealer websites and pass things over to a third party to handle the customization for the individual dealers.
With something like PineGrow, someone can import pages from FW and get right to work. Clearly, things such as master pages must be output and imported as well and there are other details, but it really comes down to the situation as to what’s the best approach, including whether to use FW or something else.
As for being defunct, this is not the case with FW. It hasn’t been upgraded in a good while, but in terms of the app, nothing whatsoever has changed.
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Working with “defunct” software?
Such an assertion demands an explanation of how “defunct software” is more horrid than hand-coding a website.
Whatever gets the job done in a way acceptable to the client (or yourself if building for yourself) should be all that matters.
James Wages
P.S. This is FREEWAYtalk. As such, if I appear to be defensive of Freeway, should anyone be surprised? By the way, I am not just a Freeway fan but one of its biggest critics; however, I seek constructive criticism with the aim of making it better. With SoftPress back online again, even with limited staff and resources, perhaps that can still happen. I hope so. Freeway has its problems, but I still use it unashamed.
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Can anyone look at my site www.streetwisedesign.net http://www.streetwisedesign.net/ and www.tommybolin-official.com http://www.tommybolin-official.com/ and tell me ifI need to do something! I did these on FW Pro but I KNOW they are outdated, but want to move forward WITH FW!!!
On 9 Mar 2017, at 13:20, JDW email@hidden wrote:
Working with “defunct” software?
Such an assertion demands an explanation of how “defunct software” is more horrid than hand-coding a website.
Whatever gets the job done in a way acceptable to the client (or yourself if building for yourself) should be all that matters.
James Wages
P.S. This is FREEWAYtalk. As such, if I appear to be defensive of Freeway, should anyone be surprised? By the way, I am not just a Freeway fan but one of its biggest critics; however, I seek constructive criticism with the aim of making it better. With SoftPress back online again, even with limited staff and resources, perhaps that can still happen. I hope so. Freeway has its problems, but I still use it unashamed.
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I looked at Coffee Club and LOVED it, but I will stay faithful with FW until I think it’s not a goer. I have GREAT HOPES!!! I loved FW for ease of use, I don’t want to know about codes etc, I want to design and create!..… hmmm just saying…
On 9 Mar 2017, at 16:33, David email@hidden wrote:
Can anyone look at my site www.streetwisedesign.net http://www.streetwisedesign.net/ and www.tommybolin-official.com http://www.tommybolin-official.com/ and tell me ifI need to do something! I did these on FW Pro but I KNOW they are outdated, but want to move forward WITH FW!!!
On 9 Mar 2017, at 13:20, JDW <email@hidden mailto:email@hidden> wrote:
Working with “defunct” software?
Such an assertion demands an explanation of how “defunct software” is more horrid than hand-coding a website.
Whatever gets the job done in a way acceptable to the client (or yourself if building for yourself) should be all that matters.
James Wages
P.S. This is FREEWAYtalk. As such, if I appear to be defensive of Freeway, should anyone be surprised? By the way, I am not just a Freeway fan but one of its biggest critics; however, I seek constructive criticism with the aim of making it better. With SoftPress back online again, even with limited staff and resources, perhaps that can still happen. I hope so. Freeway has its problems, but I still use it unashamed.
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Dave B: Bolin site: It needs to be responsive. Start with the default breakpoint and with your CSS text styles. Set styles for heading, subhead, and paragraph text that work with the well. Click on the popup at the bottom right of the CSS text panel and step down one breakpoint at a time, changing only the attributes that need changing (such as font size and weight).
Go back to your document. Refer to the documentation and set the document to fill the available width. I recommend creating an HTML object named PageContainer (or something similar) and set it to 100% width. Select everything else on the page, delete it , click in the PageContainer and paste it in. Set all the content relative to the the width. Make sure that every object (including groups / containters) is given a recognizable name.
Note that narrower breakpoints inherit the layout and object settings of the wider breakpoint.
Step down to the next breakpoint and make adjustments to objects using margins, padding and position. Only. You will notice that your font styles will have automatically adjusted to that breakpoint. If there is any object that needs to be changed radically, duplicate it, select the original object, then use the Inspector to uncheck the Display box. Now only the duplicated object can be seen. You can change it at will. If you set the pages pane at the left to display the content instead of the pages, you can see the two objects - one showing as turned off and the other as turned on.
Step down to narrower breakpoints and repeat the above.
It may take some poking around to figure it out, but as long as you start with a simple test cdocument with only a couple of objects and text items, it should be easy to work things out.
Re: Menus - Use CSS menus. You will need to set things so that the burger menu will display at narrow breakpoints. Note that you may wish to set up a special text style just for the menus.
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I was an early adaptor of Freeway (1998), and have been faithful with it up until it’s demise. Heaven knows how I’ve been firing bug-reports and feature requests on a daily basis for about the last 8 years.
When I as a software developer want to reboot/relaunch my software after a crash, I would very much like to know what competitive software my former clientele is using now, why they are using it and what their advantages are. I want to get back in the game, with this very same application which failed to hold on to it’s users at first … I need to know what to do to make my app succeed this time around.
Is this a Freeway forum? Yes it is … but I would be naive not to take a look at the competition, especially when they are doing what I didn’t: move forward and use the feedback to create awesome software.
– Richard
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Always appreciate your candid comments Richard. Honesty is so important!, Dave
On 10 Mar 2017, at 10:22, Richard van Heukelum email@hidden wrote:
I was an early adaptor of Freeway (1998), and have been faithful with it up until it’s demise. Heaven knows how I’ve been firing bug-reports and feature requests on a daily basis for about the last 8 years.
When I as a software developer want to reboot/relaunch my software after a crash, I would very much like to know what competitive software my former clientele is using now, why they are using it and what their advantages are. I want to get back in the game, with this very same application which failed to hold on to it’s users at first … I need to know what to do to make my app succeed this time around.
Is this a Freeway forum? Yes it is … but I would be naive not to take a look at the competition, especially when they are doing what I didn’t: move forward and use the feedback to create awesome software.
– Richard
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Thanks Trey. I remember I did a mobile redirect version for this, but that was a complete stall factor to sussing out responsive!… Dave
On 10 Mar 2017, at 08:31, Trey Yancy email@hidden wrote:
Dave B: Bolin site: It needs to be responsive. Start with the default breakpoint and with your CSS text styles. Set styles for heading, subhead, and paragraph text that work with the well. Click on the popup at the bottom right of the CSS text panel and step down one breakpoint at a time, changing only the attributes that need changing (such as font size and weight).
Go back to your document. Refer to the documentation and set the document to fill the available width. I recommend creating an HTML object named PageContainer (or something similar) and set it to 100% width. Select everything else on the page, delete it , click in the PageContainer and paste it in. Set all the content relative to the the width. Make sure that every object (including groups / containters) is given a recognizable name.
Note that narrower breakpoints inherit the layout and object settings of the wider breakpoint.
Step down to the next breakpoint and make adjustments to objects using margins, padding and position. Only. You will notice that your font styles will have automatically adjusted to that breakpoint. If there is any object that needs to be changed radically, duplicate it, select the original object, then use the Inspector to uncheck the Display box. Now only the duplicated object can be seen. You can change it at will. If you set the pages pane at the left to display the content instead of the pages, you can see the two objects - one showing as turned off and the other as turned on.
Step down to narrower breakpoints and repeat the above.
It may take some poking around to figure it out, but as long as you start with a simple test cdocument with only a couple of objects and text items, it should be easy to work things out.
Re: Menus - Use CSS menus. You will need to set things so that the burger menu will display at narrow breakpoints. Note that you may wish to set up a special text style just for the menus.
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On 9 Mar 2017, 3:33 am, Dave Boli wrote:
Can anyone look at my site www.streetwisedesign.net and www.tommybolin-official.com and tell me ifI need to do something! I did these on FW Pro but I KNOW they are outdated, but want to move forward WITH FW!!!
These 2 can easily be converted/rebuild to be completely responsive using FW7 (not sure what you are using). Feel free to send me your zipped archive if you’d like to receive a template. Let’s see if I can point you in the right direction.
– Richard
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Thanks Richard, I used the latest FW at the time, I think it was pro 7. I’ll sort out a zipped archive and a BEER or two, haha, Dave
On 10 Mar 2017, at 10:44, Richard van Heukelum email@hidden wrote:
On 9 Mar 2017, 3:33 am, Dave Boli wrote:
Can anyone look at my site www.streetwisedesign.net and www.tommybolin-official.com and tell me ifI need to do something! I did these on FW Pro but I KNOW they are outdated, but want to move forward WITH FW!!!
These 2 can easily be converted/rebuild to be completely responsive using FW7 (not sure what you are using). Feel free to send me your zipped archive if you’d like to receive a template. Let’s see if I can point you in the right direction.
– Richard
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By the way … this was the last project I did in Freeway7. So yes, responsive design is very much possible. The sliders were created in Coffeecup Responsive Content Slider.
– Richard
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Dave, why not add a drop shadow behind your CSS menus like I do on my Freeway-created site here?
Here’s the CSS I use within the HTML markup dialog (before ) to make the shadows appear:
I never use an email client to post to this list. I simply receive email notifications that replies have appear, then I come here with Safari and do my thing. Because we cannot EDIT or DELETE posts (for reasons I already know), I am very cautious about posting, which is why I noticed the URL missing in the Preview. The Preview is my Savior! It keeps me from posting a train of separate posts which can be hard to read and boggle up discussions. But since you cannot access the server to fix the problem, I guess it cannot be helped. So I will conduct a truly “blind” test here to see if a CSS Gist will come through as I expect…
The following is a copy/paste of the “Embed” URL (with SCRIPT tags) at GitHubGist:
A lot of sites that use menus don’t use shadows for some reason. I know that “flat” is all the rage, but I like to be practical. Flat may be the in-thing, but I don’t see MacOS ditching shadows behind menus or dialogs. Imagine what hell that would bring, making importing things blend into content beneath! That’s why I added shadows to my CSS menus in my Freeway sites. The menus look more natural (like your computer) and they don’t bend in with content beneath.
Food for thought!
Best,
James Wages
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