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Just tell your client you use a variety of tools, not excluding hand-coding (which we all do to some extend even within Freeway). It’s not like a client needs to know every little secret you employ to get the job done. Maybe they are asking so they can go out and buy the tool you mention so they can then ditch you!

James W.

Proud user of Freeway, since 1999.


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Thing is, adding a CMS on top of a Freeway site is easy. As long as you’ve taken the time to learn how to do it.

"No pain, no gain” and all that :wink:

David Owen

Creative Design | Print Production | Web Design & Strategy | Domains & Web Hosting

On 7 Mar 2017, at 19:20, qhrider email@hidden wrote:

  1. Easy, built-in CMS (to allow clients to edit specific areas…text, photos, videos, etc.—a must-have these days.)

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On 7 Mar 2017, 11:25 pm, DeltaDave wrote:

Personally, I think this is a weird thing to think… I have been building and designing sites for 20 years with literally thousands of items such emailers, websites, print items, video work, and no client has ever asked what I have created the item in.

Agree - all my sites are built with html and css - the actual application is just not relevant!

I’ve had a client who, after finding out I was a Mac user, often asked me, “can you do that on a Mac?” (she didn’t even know that I used Freeway) I learned to not bother telling them anything about my tools like that. What’s important is that you get the job done efficiently and well.

OTOH, it’s good to tell fellow Mac users who are or want to get into web work about Freeway and spread the word!


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Thanks for your input. Regarding beginning new sites in FW at this time, it’s great that those of you who commented are still comfortable using it, I’m just saying that it’s not the correct situation for me it at this time. It’s not just clients (I agree they don’t need to know all the details, nor do I offer them, but they do ask, as they are informed and curious), but it’s also professional colleagues and strategic partners with whom I sometimes collaborate. Working in defunct software just won’t cut it. When the company and software are back in full swing, I will be very excited to look at it again.

As for the CMS, I did write that a CMS can be added to a FW site and I’ve done so, it was merely a suggestion and something I would like to see. If the competition is already beginning to incorporate such a feature, it would make sense for FW to consider doing the same.


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I understand the need to collaborate with others. Working for a manufacturer, I use FW to create full-site templates for dealer websites and pass things over to a third party to handle the customization for the individual dealers.

With something like PineGrow, someone can import pages from FW and get right to work. Clearly, things such as master pages must be output and imported as well and there are other details, but it really comes down to the situation as to what’s the best approach, including whether to use FW or something else.

As for being defunct, this is not the case with FW. It hasn’t been upgraded in a good while, but in terms of the app, nothing whatsoever has changed.


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Working with “defunct” software?

Such an assertion demands an explanation of how “defunct software” is more horrid than hand-coding a website. :slight_smile:

Whatever gets the job done in a way acceptable to the client (or yourself if building for yourself) should be all that matters.

James Wages

P.S. This is FREEWAYtalk. As such, if I appear to be defensive of Freeway, should anyone be surprised? By the way, I am not just a Freeway fan but one of its biggest critics; however, I seek constructive criticism with the aim of making it better. With SoftPress back online again, even with limited staff and resources, perhaps that can still happen. I hope so. Freeway has its problems, but I still use it unashamed.


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Can anyone look at my site www.streetwisedesign.net http://www.streetwisedesign.net/ and www.tommybolin-official.com http://www.tommybolin-official.com/ and tell me ifI need to do something! I did these on FW Pro but I KNOW they are outdated, but want to move forward WITH FW!!!

On 9 Mar 2017, at 13:20, JDW email@hidden wrote:

Working with “defunct” software?

Such an assertion demands an explanation of how “defunct software” is more horrid than hand-coding a website. :slight_smile:

Whatever gets the job done in a way acceptable to the client (or yourself if building for yourself) should be all that matters.

James Wages

P.S. This is FREEWAYtalk. As such, if I appear to be defensive of Freeway, should anyone be surprised? By the way, I am not just a Freeway fan but one of its biggest critics; however, I seek constructive criticism with the aim of making it better. With SoftPress back online again, even with limited staff and resources, perhaps that can still happen. I hope so. Freeway has its problems, but I still use it unashamed.


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I looked at Coffee Club and LOVED it, but I will stay faithful with FW until I think it’s not a goer. I have GREAT HOPES!!! I loved FW for ease of use, I don’t want to know about codes etc, I want to design and create!..… hmmm just saying…

On 9 Mar 2017, at 16:33, David email@hidden wrote:

Can anyone look at my site www.streetwisedesign.net http://www.streetwisedesign.net/ and www.tommybolin-official.com http://www.tommybolin-official.com/ and tell me ifI need to do something! I did these on FW Pro but I KNOW they are outdated, but want to move forward WITH FW!!!

On 9 Mar 2017, at 13:20, JDW <email@hidden mailto:email@hidden> wrote:

Working with “defunct” software?

Such an assertion demands an explanation of how “defunct software” is more horrid than hand-coding a website. :slight_smile:

Whatever gets the job done in a way acceptable to the client (or yourself if building for yourself) should be all that matters.

James Wages

P.S. This is FREEWAYtalk. As such, if I appear to be defensive of Freeway, should anyone be surprised? By the way, I am not just a Freeway fan but one of its biggest critics; however, I seek constructive criticism with the aim of making it better. With SoftPress back online again, even with limited staff and resources, perhaps that can still happen. I hope so. Freeway has its problems, but I still use it unashamed.


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Dave B: Bolin site: It needs to be responsive. Start with the default breakpoint and with your CSS text styles. Set styles for heading, subhead, and paragraph text that work with the well. Click on the popup at the bottom right of the CSS text panel and step down one breakpoint at a time, changing only the attributes that need changing (such as font size and weight).

Go back to your document. Refer to the documentation and set the document to fill the available width. I recommend creating an HTML object named PageContainer (or something similar) and set it to 100% width. Select everything else on the page, delete it , click in the PageContainer and paste it in. Set all the content relative to the the width. Make sure that every object (including groups / containters) is given a recognizable name.

Note that narrower breakpoints inherit the layout and object settings of the wider breakpoint.

Step down to the next breakpoint and make adjustments to objects using margins, padding and position. Only. You will notice that your font styles will have automatically adjusted to that breakpoint. If there is any object that needs to be changed radically, duplicate it, select the original object, then use the Inspector to uncheck the Display box. Now only the duplicated object can be seen. You can change it at will. If you set the pages pane at the left to display the content instead of the pages, you can see the two objects - one showing as turned off and the other as turned on.

Step down to narrower breakpoints and repeat the above.

It may take some poking around to figure it out, but as long as you start with a simple test cdocument with only a couple of objects and text items, it should be easy to work things out.

Re: Menus - Use CSS menus. You will need to set things so that the burger menu will display at narrow breakpoints. Note that you may wish to set up a special text style just for the menus.


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I was an early adaptor of Freeway (1998), and have been faithful with it up until it’s demise. Heaven knows how I’ve been firing bug-reports and feature requests on a daily basis for about the last 8 years.

When I as a software developer want to reboot/relaunch my software after a crash, I would very much like to know what competitive software my former clientele is using now, why they are using it and what their advantages are. I want to get back in the game, with this very same application which failed to hold on to it’s users at first … I need to know what to do to make my app succeed this time around.

Is this a Freeway forum? Yes it is … but I would be naive not to take a look at the competition, especially when they are doing what I didn’t: move forward and use the feedback to create awesome software.

– Richard


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Always appreciate your candid comments Richard. Honesty is so important!, Dave

On 10 Mar 2017, at 10:22, Richard van Heukelum email@hidden wrote:

I was an early adaptor of Freeway (1998), and have been faithful with it up until it’s demise. Heaven knows how I’ve been firing bug-reports and feature requests on a daily basis for about the last 8 years.

When I as a software developer want to reboot/relaunch my software after a crash, I would very much like to know what competitive software my former clientele is using now, why they are using it and what their advantages are. I want to get back in the game, with this very same application which failed to hold on to it’s users at first … I need to know what to do to make my app succeed this time around.

Is this a Freeway forum? Yes it is … but I would be naive not to take a look at the competition, especially when they are doing what I didn’t: move forward and use the feedback to create awesome software.

– Richard


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Thanks Trey. I remember I did a mobile redirect version for this, but that was a complete stall factor to sussing out responsive!… Dave

On 10 Mar 2017, at 08:31, Trey Yancy email@hidden wrote:

Dave B: Bolin site: It needs to be responsive. Start with the default breakpoint and with your CSS text styles. Set styles for heading, subhead, and paragraph text that work with the well. Click on the popup at the bottom right of the CSS text panel and step down one breakpoint at a time, changing only the attributes that need changing (such as font size and weight).

Go back to your document. Refer to the documentation and set the document to fill the available width. I recommend creating an HTML object named PageContainer (or something similar) and set it to 100% width. Select everything else on the page, delete it , click in the PageContainer and paste it in. Set all the content relative to the the width. Make sure that every object (including groups / containters) is given a recognizable name.

Note that narrower breakpoints inherit the layout and object settings of the wider breakpoint.

Step down to the next breakpoint and make adjustments to objects using margins, padding and position. Only. You will notice that your font styles will have automatically adjusted to that breakpoint. If there is any object that needs to be changed radically, duplicate it, select the original object, then use the Inspector to uncheck the Display box. Now only the duplicated object can be seen. You can change it at will. If you set the pages pane at the left to display the content instead of the pages, you can see the two objects - one showing as turned off and the other as turned on.

Step down to narrower breakpoints and repeat the above.

It may take some poking around to figure it out, but as long as you start with a simple test cdocument with only a couple of objects and text items, it should be easy to work things out.

Re: Menus - Use CSS menus. You will need to set things so that the burger menu will display at narrow breakpoints. Note that you may wish to set up a special text style just for the menus.


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On 9 Mar 2017, 3:33 am, Dave Boli wrote:

Can anyone look at my site www.streetwisedesign.net and www.tommybolin-official.com and tell me ifI need to do something! I did these on FW Pro but I KNOW they are outdated, but want to move forward WITH FW!!!

These 2 can easily be converted/rebuild to be completely responsive using FW7 (not sure what you are using). Feel free to send me your zipped archive if you’d like to receive a template. Let’s see if I can point you in the right direction.

– Richard


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Thanks Richard, I used the latest FW at the time, I think it was pro 7. I’ll sort out a zipped archive and a BEER or two, haha, Dave

On 10 Mar 2017, at 10:44, Richard van Heukelum email@hidden wrote:

On 9 Mar 2017, 3:33 am, Dave Boli wrote:

Can anyone look at my site www.streetwisedesign.net and www.tommybolin-official.com and tell me ifI need to do something! I did these on FW Pro but I KNOW they are outdated, but want to move forward WITH FW!!!

These 2 can easily be converted/rebuild to be completely responsive using FW7 (not sure what you are using). Feel free to send me your zipped archive if you’d like to receive a template. Let’s see if I can point you in the right direction.

– Richard


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By the way … this was the last project I did in Freeway7. So yes, responsive design is very much possible. The sliders were created in Coffeecup Responsive Content Slider.

– Richard


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Dave, why not add a drop shadow behind your CSS menus like I do on my Freeway-created site here?

Here’s the CSS I use within the HTML markup dialog (before ) to make the shadows appear:

I never use an email client to post to this list. I simply receive email notifications that replies have appear, then I come here with Safari and do my thing. Because we cannot EDIT or DELETE posts (for reasons I already know), I am very cautious about posting, which is why I noticed the URL missing in the Preview. The Preview is my Savior! It keeps me from posting a train of separate posts which can be hard to read and boggle up discussions. But since you cannot access the server to fix the problem, I guess it cannot be helped. So I will conduct a truly “blind” test here to see if a CSS Gist will come through as I expect…

The following is a copy/paste of the “Embed” URL (with SCRIPT tags) at GitHubGist:

A lot of sites that use menus don’t use shadows for some reason. I know that “flat” is all the rage, but I like to be practical. Flat may be the in-thing, but I don’t see MacOS ditching shadows behind menus or dialogs. Imagine what hell that would bring, making importing things blend into content beneath! That’s why I added shadows to my CSS menus in my Freeway sites. The menus look more natural (like your computer) and they don’t bend in with content beneath.

Food for thought!

Best,

James Wages


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Ooops. I copied and pasted an extra paragraph that wasn’t mean to be pasted here. Yet another reason I wish this list could ditch its email mailing list roots and “be normal” like other forums.

Please ignore the “I never use an email client…” paragraph. The rest is what I intended to post here.

Sorry,

James W.


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+1

This forum is so outdated.

SoftPress could go along way in improving there public and customer perception if they would simply:

• Update the security certificate – Information for existing FreewayTalk / Groups.io users - Site Feedback - Softpress Talk

• Archive this antiquated forum, still having the ability to search

• Switch to a modern forum like Discourse: https://www.discourse.org/

Simple endeavors to show progress, while they figure out the correct direction for there software and future.

On 10 Mar 2017, 12:38 am, JDW wrote:

“be normal” like other forums.


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Hey Trey,

I wonder if you could point me in the right direction about making my site http://chrisrutkowski.com/ truly responsive. Some people don’t like the backgrounds (which are paintings by my brother, but I like the retro feel which parallels my emphasis on acoustic music as a jazz player and composer, so I’d like to keep them.

I think the simplest course is for me to redo the pages for viewing on phones, with a new menus and probably removing the background paintings for that breakpoint. Could you clarify that process? And do you have a suggestion for an alternative menu, perhaps one that pops out from the side?

Thanks!

Chris Rutkowski

On Mar 9, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Trey Yancy email@hidden wrote:

Dave B: Bolin site: It needs to be responsive. Start with the default breakpoint and with your CSS text styles. Set styles for heading, subhead, and paragraph text that work with the well. Click on the popup at the bottom right of the CSS text panel and step down one breakpoint at a time, changing only the attributes that need changing (such as font size and weight).

Go back to your document. Refer to the documentation and set the document to fill the available width. I recommend creating an HTML object named PageContainer (or something similar) and set it to 100% width. Select everything else on the page, delete it , click in the PageContainer and paste it in. Set all the content relative to the the width. Make sure that every object (including groups / containters) is given a recognizable name.

Note that narrower breakpoints inherit the layout and object settings of the wider breakpoint.

Step down to the next breakpoint and make adjustments to objects using margins, padding and position. Only. You will notice that your font styles will have automatically adjusted to that breakpoint. If there is any object that needs to be changed radically, duplicate it, select the original object, then use the Inspector to uncheck the Display box. Now only the duplicated object can be seen. You can change it at will. If you set the pages pane at the left to display the content instead of the pages, you can see the two objects - one showing as turned off and the other as turned on.

Step down to narrower breakpoints and repeat the above.

It may take some poking around to figure it out, but as long as you start with a simple test cdocument with only a couple of objects and text items, it should be easy to work things out.

Re: Menus - Use CSS menus. You will need to set things so that the burger menu will display at narrow breakpoints. Note that you may wish to set up a special text style just for the menus.


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Chris Rutkowski
Creative Director, Luna Media
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www.chrisrutkowski.com http://chrisrutkowski.com/index.html


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Speaking as the author of this forum (literally, hand-coded from the nuts up) I don’t disagree that time has not been its friend. But I would like to fill you in to some of the history that informed its design, and the particular place in time that it occupies.

FreewayTalk the first was a Gnu Mailman mailing list for the first umpty years of its existence. I joined in 1997, right after the end of the first beta for Freeway 1, and the launch of that product. As mailing lists go, it was easily one of the very best (and I was an active and early adopter of mailing lists). There was a tone and a camaraderie that has stayed consistent throughout all those years. The Ruby people I work with these days have a saying about this sort of community, centered around the developer of that language: “Matz is nice so we are nice.” The same could be said about this list, albeit centered around Freeway the product.

Somewhere around the mid-2000s, the cry went up among the populace that “mailing lists are old and boring – we need a forum”, and a PHPBB was duly put up in place of the mailing list. An incredible hack was developed that allowed the forum to continue to work with the listserv, and it worked in a serviceable manner, but those of us (myself included) that preferred the simplicity and pushiness of the mailing list found it to be really weak sauce, and I expressed my displeasure fairly loudly. I also have to admit that I didn’t contribute as much as I had, simply because the ergonomics of it were entirely wrong for the way my mind works.

About a year later, I proposed a new system, with its heart and soul firmly in the mailing list ethos, but with a core of a search engine and Web interface that could provide the Google visibility needed to make searches for information about Freeway top-of-the-results. Working with Finlay Dobbie, the then-teenaged wunderkind who was famously kicked out of the Apple Developer program for being too damned young, I developed a Web application that could interact with Mailman… The mailing list was the database, in other words, so instead of the mailing list being a bolt-on to the forum, the forum was just another member of the list. This generation of the list launched in 2007 or so.

A few years ago, Softpress got most of the way done with a Discourse implementation, but for one reason or another, it never took over from the “Mailist” system I had developed. I’m not sure where that work is archived, or what state it is in, but it could be dusted off, I suppose.

The difference between a forum – no matter how glossy – and a mailing list, goes all the way to the bone, in my opinion. It’s a fundamental truth that if you get an e-mail and you reply to it, that interaction is pushed toward you. You don’t have to seek it out, search for a topic that interests you and contribute. You can respond. I am responsive by nature. I used to have a sign on my door at work that read, “If you react quickly enough, it can look like planning.” And I have lived my entire (very lengthy) professional career in that mode. I shudder to think what would happen to my contribution rate to this community without that mode of interaction. I just checked, and I have written 17,814 answers in the past 10 years. I am sure there were an equal number in the preceding (e-mail only) 10 years.

I am by no means the most frequent or prolific user, either, but one thread that has bound all of the frequent fliers together has been that they are “email subscribers” rather than the drop-in forum users who come in for a single purpose and then leave. That incredible longevity of membership is another (probably the most) important reason why this tends to be such a “nice” community. We are here for each other – a true community of interest, and we’ve seen each other through marriages, births, deaths, and career detours.

Thanks for letting me stroke my gray beard and tell you all a tale. And thanks for being a big part of my work life all these many years.

Walter

On Mar 10, 2017, at 1:35 PM, FreewayPro_User email@hidden wrote:

+1

This forum is so outdated.

SoftPress could go along way in improving there public and customer perception if they would simply:

• Update the security certificate – Information for existing FreewayTalk / Groups.io users - Site Feedback - Softpress Talk

• Archive this antiquated forum, still having the ability to search

• Switch to a modern forum like Discourse: https://www.discourse.org/


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