Can't get email to work in FWP

OK, I know that different mail clients can’t handle HTML well, but I just can’t see how it is this bad! I presume I am doing something wrong.
What I did was:

  1. take the standard FWP Autumn template
  2. insert 2 graphics in place of a couple of text boxes
  3. HTML Markup with
  4. uploaded to my site, selected ‘email’ from the share button in Safari.
    The result is what you can see in the link below.
    Apple Mail - fine (as you would expect)
    Windows 8 Metro Mail - no images at all
    Outlook 2010 - images placed at bottom of page
    What am I doing wrong? Surely this cannot be right.

http://www.eyemack.co.uk/fwpmail.jpg


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There is a standard (built-in) Page Action called Create Email. Apply that to your page first. And look in the manual for further instructions on how to configure it and pitfalls to avoid. The path you are using (preview in a browser and email from there) isn’t the most cross-browser way to do this, as you have discovered.

Walter

On Jun 29, 2013, at 6:20 AM, Iain Mackenzie wrote:

OK, I know that different mail clients can’t handle HTML well, but I just can’t see how it is this bad! I presume I am doing something wrong.
What I did was:

  1. take the standard FWP Autumn template
  2. insert 2 graphics in place of a couple of text boxes
  3. HTML Markup with
  4. uploaded to my site, selected ‘email’ from the share button in Safari.
    The result is what you can see in the link below.
    Apple Mail - fine (as you would expect)
    Windows 8 Metro Mail - no images at all
    Outlook 2010 - images placed at bottom of page
    What am I doing wrong? Surely this cannot be right.

http://www.eyemack.co.uk/fwpmail.jpg


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Thanks. For that.
Sorry, should have said I applied the Create email Page action. I forgot to mention that.
Also, I couldn’t see anything in the User Manual about creating emails. What page is it on?


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Can anyone help with this?
I have tried everything but can’t get the Autumn template (with one graphic change) to display correctly especially in Outlook 2010.
I’ve followed this Create Email Action - Freeway - Softpress Talk to the letter, and still Outlook 2010 puts any graphic at the bottom of the page like an attachment.


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I’m not familiar with that (or any) template in Freeway, so this is just general advice. You may need to start from scratch, and make a simpler page structure. There’s a reason why many “designed” email messages are mostly table-layout sliced GIF images: Outlook uses the html layout engine from Word (circa 1997) instead of the one from IE. So you could start with a screenshot of your current layout in Safari, and slice that up to make your graphical layout.

Walter


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Hi there, and thanks for your reply.
I am confused by a couple of things you have written.

  1. in your previous post, you said to look in the manual, but I can’t see anything about creating emails in it. Can you tell me what page it is on?
  2. you say you can’t see Autumn or any other templates, yet it is the first thing I see when selecting ‘File>New…’. Here’s a grab http://www.eyemack.co.uk/aut.jpg. I can’t understand why Softpress would include templates that don’t work with importing 1 graphic.
  3. if all this is so difficult, how do all companies send very attractive emails that seem to render OK in most clients?
  4. you say that previewing in a browser and sending from there isn’t the best approach. Can you tell me what is? At the moment, I am saving the code and pasting it into Mailchimp. What other methods are there?
    Confused!
    I’m just about to try a simple email with one text box and one graphic. Let’s see if it renders OK in Outlook.

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OK, so I tried the simplest possible test. A blank HTML email with 1 HTML text box containing some random text and it just doesn’t work.
This is what I did:

  1. Select ‘File>New’ blank email
  2. Save as ‘Blank Email’
  3. Draw HTML box in middle of page and insert some random text.
  4. Select ‘Page>Page Action>Create email’
  5. Go to Document Setup and input the server name and directory for the upload. Also, fill in the Web Address box
  6. On the Page Action box, select ‘Preview locally’ and it looks fine in Safari.
  7. Go to ‘Page>HTML Markup and input ‘ with ‘after head’ selected - obviously with the correct info.
  8. Do ‘File>Upload’ and all is well
  9. Check with Safari that all is well online.
  10. Select ‘Develop>Show Code’. Select all HTML code and cmd-c to copy.
  11. Go to MailChimp, create a campaign, paste in the code and send an email to myself.
  12. Result: doesn’t render correctly in any of the 3 email clients I can try, i.e. Apple Mail, Windows 8 Mail and Outlook 2010.
    I feel like giving up on this software as I have now spent a whole weekend trying to get it to do the simplest thing without any success at all.

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On Jun 30, 2013, at 12:02 PM, Iain Mackenzie wrote:

Hi there, and thanks for your reply.
I am confused by a couple of things you have written.

  1. in your previous post, you said to look in the manual, but I can’t see anything about creating emails in it. Can you tell me what page it is on?

I was wrong, this isn’t covered in the manual, it’s in the KnowledgeBase. Someone else has posted a link in this thread.

  1. you say you can’t see Autumn or any other templates, yet it is the first thing I see when selecting ‘File>New…’. Here’s a grab http://www.eyemack.co.uk/aut.jpg. I can’t understand why Softpress would include templates that don’t work with importing 1 graphic.

I don’t ever use the templates. I have my copy of Freeway set to open to “Custom” when I choose a new document. My sites all start the same way – with a completely blank page of a certain size.

  1. if all this is so difficult, how do all companies send very attractive emails that seem to render OK in most clients?

If you go to MailChimp and use one of their stock templates, you will get a tremendous amount of quality for your (no) money. But you will look like one of their stock templates, rather than exactly what you want. Those templates were all made by hand in a text editor by developers who spent the time it takes to understand the vagaries of all the various e-mail applications out there, and figured out work-arounds to each of their many flaws. Freeway is first and foremost an application for creating beautiful HTML pages for browsers, and e-mail applications are definitively NOT web browsers.

Personally, I never send HTML mail to anyone, for any reason. I don’t make it for my clients, and actively advise them to avoid it at all costs. Not because it is hard, but because it is using the wrong tool for the job. Spend the money on an excellent copywriter, I always tell them, and let the words do what the mangled images can never do.

  1. you say that previewing in a browser and sending from there isn’t the best approach. Can you tell me what is? At the moment, I am saving the code and pasting it into Mailchimp. What other methods are there?
    Confused!
    I’m just about to try a simple email with one text box and one graphic. Let’s see if it renders OK in Outlook.

MailChimp or another service can provide tools to convert your HTML into valid and readable HTML e-mail. But you may also need to spend some time learning about the pitfalls that you have to avoid, and some more time in a text editor altering Freeway’s output to suit.

One last piece of advice – don’t have layers on when you make this layout. Only use tables (click the CSS Layout button so it changes to Table Layout) and make that change before you draw the first thing on the page.

Walter


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I am finding this whole HTML email subject totally confusing.
On the one hand, there is a lot of software out there like Freeway and Mail Designer that purport to allow you to produce wonderful emails to send out.
On the other hand, unless you are using Apple Mail - which most of the world doesn’t - then the emails just don’t work.
How does that square up?
I have been using the ‘export to graphics and slice it in PS’ technique, but I can hardly see the point in that either. I mean, unless there is a hyperlink in the mail, you might as well just generate a graphic file and send that out!
I really can’t see what is the purpose of Freeway/Mail Designer. Even their own templates don’t work.
I’m prepared to be shown the light!


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The other issue with HTML mail is deliverability. Having HTML in the body of a message without an equivalent plain-text message part is a clear flag for every spam analyzer I have ever met. The bulk of the mail sent by my sites on behalf of my clients are password confirmation, reminders, important messages that must get through. To have them classified right off the bat as spam defeats their purpose, and any amount of branding or fanciness is entirely wasted if they don’t make it to their recipient. Plain text, with a clear set of headers indicating who it’s from and what for, rules the day in my world.

If you want to make HTML e-mail messages and deliver them to people, you really need to dig deep and learn the inner workings of these multivariate client applications. Even Web-based mail, like Gmail, has its own set of foibles. Even though you may be showing the message in a browser, where you could reasonably expect anything valid to fly, Gmail filters and re-shapes all messages sent through it to prevent attacks.

The lowest common denominator is shockingly low – HTML 3.2 (which means no layers) with inline CSS (I know, not a valid combination, but then it’s not actually HTML any more – it’s MIME mail). Several people on this list have done a lot of work with HTML mail, and have developed workflows involving post-processing with a programmer’s text editor and Actions to “inline” the styles and to simplify the HTML. And once you’ve done that, you really must also create a plain-text variant of the message, and send it as the text “part” of your HTML message. Depending on the software used to read the message, or the reader’s preferences setting, that may be all that makes it to the screen. If that part is missing, as I said before, that’s a clear signal that the message is probably spam, and headed straight to quarantine, to be found weeks later (or not). Composing such a message is not something you can do in Apple Mail or most other desktop mail applications. That’s why there are services like MailChimp, with their composing Web app, and why they provide you with the slot to enter the plain text version. Some desktop applications will try to automatically divine a plain-text variant from the HTML you compose, but these results are only really good for a message of word-processing complexity. They won’t know what to do with a sliced image in a table, for example.

In the work I do, I can’t afford to cross the line into spam, so I don’t even bother with that step. I write a clear text message, format it with plenty of whitespace and a mix of capital letters and sentence case and tabs, and I’m done.

Walter

On Jul 3, 2013, at 2:46 AM, Iain Mackenzie wrote:

I am finding this whole HTML email subject totally confusing.
On the one hand, there is a lot of software out there like Freeway and Mail Designer that purport to allow you to produce wonderful emails to send out.
On the other hand, unless you are using Apple Mail - which most of the world doesn’t - then the emails just don’t work.
How does that square up?
I have been using the ‘export to graphics and slice it in PS’ technique, but I can hardly see the point in that either. I mean, unless there is a hyperlink in the mail, you might as well just generate a graphic file and send that out!
I really can’t see what is the purpose of Freeway/Mail Designer. Even their own templates don’t work.
I’m prepared to be shown the light!


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Walter, thanks again for the incredibly detailed and thoughtful reply. I appreciate it.
I am still confused, however, by why software like Freeway and Mail Designer exist. They promise a lot in terms of them being easy creators of beautiful emails, but as we know, they don’t work. I really can’t understand how Mail Designer etc. remain active in the market.
I have used Mail Designer and Mailchimp for over a year now, and have been constantly frustrated by how difficult it is to make an email with graphics and text that renders correctly in Outlook, Windows Mail and Apple Mail.
Essentially, these applications are really not suitable for purpose.
Am I wrong?
I should add that I am happy with the web design aspect of Freeway.


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The real problem is that e-mail is not the Web, and tools that work perfectly for the Web are only of limited value in e-mail.

I have never used Mail Designer, but it sounds like maybe they are over-selling it. Making an e-mail in HTML that will render identically on all client platforms (well, all MIME-enabled client platforms – give Pine a try sometime for some old-school ASCII love) is mostly an exercise in “you can’t do that” or “lowest-common-denominator design”. You really have to pick and choose what you do very carefully, and unless MD has some artificial intelligence or pre-built templates, you are probably going to make something that works well in Apple Mail and other Mac desktop mail clients only.

Outlook is truly awful, Hotmail is dead, thank g*d, because they were even worse (if that can be imagined). Gmail has some really odd quirks to do with absolute positioning.

All of them suffer because there isn’t a tag in a mail message, so there’s no sane place to put your styles. Everything has to be inlined. There’s no JavaScript, you can barely use the target attribute, the list goes on and on.

Walter

On Jul 3, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Iain Mackenzie wrote:

Walter, thanks again for the incredibly detailed and thoughtful reply. I appreciate it.
I am still confused, however, by why software like Freeway and Mail Designer exist. They promise a lot in terms of them being easy creators of beautiful emails, but as we know, they don’t work. I really can’t understand how Mail Designer etc. remain active in the market.
I have used Mail Designer and Mailchimp for over a year now, and have been constantly frustrated by how difficult it is to make an email with graphics and text that renders correctly in Outlook, Windows Mail and Apple Mail.
Essentially, these applications are really not suitable for purpose.
Am I wrong?
I should add that I am happy with the web design aspect of Freeway.


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