Fin

I vote that we call them both “Bruce” so as to avoid confusion.

– Bruce


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Hahaha


Joe Workman

On July 20, 2016 at 7:41:24 PM, The Big Erns (email@hidden) wrote:

I vote that we call them both “Bruce” so as to avoid confusion.

– Bruce


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On 20 Jul 2016, 4:43 pm, Joe Billings wrote:

Joe Mascara

Joe who? :wink:

JDW wrote:

Folks, there are two Joe’s:

Joe Billings of SoftPress

Joe Workman, the hard worker of Foundation on Rapid Weaver
To ensure we can all understand you, please include the last name or last initial when you invoke their names. Please.

Two Joe’s what? I mean the Joes must have something.

I wonder what the third Joe is doing…


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If someone could take over the softpress forum, that would be very nice. There is a ton of good information there that we could use. Also, the certificate for this page has expired.

Is there a company out there who is good at marketing and that would be willing to buy Freeway?


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I started a new role on the day Softpress made its announcement, so my first day was tinged with sadness. I was sadder than I had any expectation for.

I wish all my friends and former colleagues at Softpress well.

Kevin


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In retrospect it seems Softpress has been in trouble for some time. Although Freeway pro 7 is a really good application there has been very little in the way of training materials available. We have been left to work it out ourselves. If you are trying to develop new customers they need more help.

I will give Adobe Muse a look.

Pete


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Re: Muse -
Since Adobe went to the subscription model I’ve been very shy of it. While users own the output for an Adobe CC project, the master document will only work with CC.

From our perspective, the way in which we create our projects (methods of masking, the way we use filters, keyframes, plug-ins, high-end video transitions, etc.) are our intellectual property. The subscription model means we do not own our intellectual property. We only rent it. I would rather not sign over these rights to Adobe.

Your perspective may be different. Things are also different when we are talking about HTML, as you can reconstruct a page or site from the code. (I haven’t used Muse, but if it allows you to export the code, it might be a good alternative.)

As we know, a shortcoming of Freeway that because of certain things going on in the background, reconstructing things from HTML output is more problematic.

I have no idea whether any company would be interested in buying Freeway and performing the due diligence to bring it up to speed, but I contacted the president of one company to let him know Softpress’ situation. Hopefully, Joe can get in contact with him and see what is possible. I’d like to think that someone out there will take over where Softpress left off.


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Hey Todd,
So I copied what you did and all of my images disappear.

Billy


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On 20 Jul 2016, 4:43 pm, Joe Billings wrote:

Hey folks,
Speaking of which - I’d like to send a special shout out to Richard Logan, Vanessa Gregory, Alan Shouls, Kevin Meaney, Jeremy Hughes, Stewart Fellows, Simon Manning, Anna Henderson, James Davies, Tim Plumb, Keith Rigley, Katie Wagner, James Bairstow, Linda Munro, Gillian Betterton, Chris Sowley, Henk Hodiament, Volker Ritzhaupt, Thierry Rolland, Alex, Marco Cumar, Walter Davis, Keith Martin, Paul Dunning, Joe Mascara, James Wages, and Heather Kavanagh, all of whom made Softpress what it was. Thanks guys - it was a blast!

Thanks for the shout! It was great being part of the effort - both inside and slightly outside the door (depending on whether I was an employee, or an outside freelancer, or the supplier of Useful Stuff). Lots of great things to look back on.

I still can’t believe it‘s all over. The feeling of loss is greater than Brexit, to be honest. If I find anything of use or interest in my archive of Softpress material I have here, I’ll do what I can to make it available.


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Revert your htaccess.

Todd
Office (Chicago): 312.212.3955

Hey Todd,
So I copied what you did and all of my images disappear.

http://smartypantsgraphicdesign.com

Billy


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Paul Dunning,

It’s technically not over until we all find a replacement for Freeway. And by the number of mentions of alternate web design tools out there, it seems the bulk of us are still searching.

RapidWeaver + Stacks + Foundation seems rather easy to use, as per the videos that Joe WORKMAN has put up for us. And while the discounts he rustled up for us are very nice, I worry about the long term cost. Being nickeled and dimed for every stack is a legitimate concern. “Want to add this basic thing that everyone else has on their site? Well, that’ll be $15, please.” “Oh, you want something else? That’ll be another $20, please.” Maybe I’m overblowing it, but thus far, no one has refuted this.


Joe MASCARA, or should I call you Bruce? (Then again, is it Bruce Wayne or Bruce Jenner or Bruce Lee or Bruce Springsteen? Sheesh.) Sorry I forgot to mention you. But the fact remains that we ought to put down last names. I think it makes posts a lot more clear. If people don’t like that, then unique initials like mine (JDW) may be another way to refer to specific people.

Best,

James Wages (JDW)


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I wonder what would have happened – seriously – if I had chosen to charge for my Actions. Paul and Tim did, and I don’t know how the economics of it worked out, nor do I have any decent comparison between number of users. But I wonder if the simple fact that I was lazy, and didn’t charge (because I didn’t want to set up a commerce site, and didn’t want to feel beholden to my customers for support). I know that most of the other people who wrote and distributed Actions didn’t charge for theirs either.

What would the Freeway ecosystem look like if it wasn’t expected that all this codified knowledge was free?

Walter

On Jul 21, 2016, at 8:41 PM, JDW email@hidden wrote:

“Want to add this basic thing that everyone else has on their site? Well, that’ll be $15, please.” “Oh, you want something else? That’ll be another $20, please.” Maybe I’m overblowing it, but thus far, no one has refuted this.


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Walter, you make a valid point. But with regard to RapidWeaver, the core app isn’t designed to do much. Stacks makes it somewhat usable, and Foundation atop Stacks seems to be something that is quite useful (although how bloated the end code is, I’ve not thoroughly examined).

The thing with Freeway is that you could often start off wanting to do something, then you realize you don’t know how to do it so you post something here on FreewayTalk, and much of the time someone out there would give you a code fragment or tip on how to go about it, free of charge. Sometimes actions were required, but not really that often. But from what I see in the RapidWeaver world, you’d need stack for just about any little thing you want to add. Earlier in this thread I asked Joe Workman about a certain type of Search Field and the answer was that it would probably be out there somewhere in Stack form (although I certainly haven’t been able to find it).

There comes a point at which one must ask themselves a question. Can I do this myself at a reasonable cost or should I hire someone to do it? But if I hire them, then I’d need to use them for every little change in the future, which could end up costing me more in the long term than doing it myself.

I got into web design in 1999 only because my company at the time wanted me to do the job rather than pay a huge sum to an outside firm. I’ve always done website work in my free time. It’s not my full time job. Freeway made that possible for me. People who do websites full time have a very different view of web design and web design tools, I have no doubt.

–James Wages


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I have been a FW user for about 3 years, and during that time, I have wondered about the financial model.

I can’t remember how much FW was to upgrade each version, but it wasn’t much. And, users could go on for years without paying any more cash. Why didn’t Softpress adopt a more aggressive approach? (Aggressive meant in the nicest possible way!)

The standard approach of many software companies is to charge an (almost) annual ‘upgrade’ fee for software that is not much different, e.g. Parallels.

Now, I don’t mind paying £30-£40 a year to keep companies afloat if I feel their software is useful to me, and that they are doing a good job of maintaining the software in terms of updates and customer support.

As Walter has alluded to in a post above, I also have never understood the Actions principle which as far as I can see was the cornerstone of the FW community. Most seem to have been free, or a fairly minimal cost. Why? Again, I’m sure users would be happy to pay more for something that would prove to be useful.

I know that users like me don’t have any idea about the finances of Softpress, or things that have gone on behind closed doors, but why did Softpress not pick up on the whole Action thing? Develop their own chargeable products? I guess it was largely because of the situation described above, i.e. so many free Actions readily available.

No point in going, I guess, but I am very sad about FW and Softpress. Is there no chance that someone - with larger resources than Softpress - will pick up FW and improve the marketing and development?


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Iain,

I actually proposed to SoftPress back in December 2015 that a buyout or merger with Serif (makers of the superb Affinity apps) would make great sense. Serif has two great graphics apps, but no web design app that touches Freeway. But with Serif’s money and engineering team, I felt they could inject new life into Freeway. Specifically, whoever owns Freeway would need to move Freeway off the MacApp framework and onto something modern. That would be a major rewrite of the app, and no doubt would require more resources than SoftPress had to make it happen. Without modernizing the app, you also can’t have things like Retina UI optimizations. Such is probably also why we never achieved things extremely basic like Multiple Undos too.

–James Wages


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James,

Interesting. I have been using the 2 Affinity products for quite a long time now, and after trying many Adobe CC ‘alternatives’ over the years, I feel we really do have one now.

The way that the Affinity team respond to support requests - both on the forums and by email - remind me of the community here.

In my opinion, an updated FW would be a perfect fit for the Affinity products, especially with the coming of Publisher soon.

Did you ever approach Serif directly? What reaction did you get from Softpress?


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I got zero reaction from SoftPress, perhaps because even back in December 2015 they may have been in financial distress (who knows).

I contacted Serif in early June this year, after seeing their Responsive Web Design “mock-up” feature video:

But I got no response from Serif either.

Again, that feature in Affinity Designer 1.5 is for the creation of a “graphical mock-up.” There is no HTML output. I wrote them to suggest they expand it to generate HTML, possibly in a separate app.

For truly, I want to create a Responsive site THE EASY WAY. And I want WYSIWYG. Indeed, WYSIWYG is what led me to Freeway back in 1999, in the Freeway 2 days. Freeway has also been great for traditional table based layouts, but I never figured out how to create a Responsive Site in Freeway EASILY (for brain dead people like me).

Best,

James Wages


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The only valid point I see is, that it is this audience responsible for the disastrous end - you and me to be pedant. And on plus, I see an audience haven’t got the balls to speak it out loud!

Rather than discussing stupid requests on this TalkList for years (tables, hover, positioning …) it would have been much better to talk “progressive enhancement (ever heard of flexbox?)”. For the sake of those people we’re doing web design:

The billions of users out there having the damn right watching a well structured Page (or Site).

My aspiration is leaving the web a better place. This is just because I’m a designer. And a designer’s job is solving problems. This is neither a technical approach nor has it much to do with prettifying. It’s authoring and structuring. It’s about taking the inventory - it’s about simplifying.

Following this approach, one may wonder how less and rare you have to “adjust” your site.

I’m one of those “selling” my stuff. Because it isn’t a cheap video series of a manual. It is my intellectual property. And I’m proud of it.

I often tried to motivate the action writers to sell stuff - it’s damn fair. But we can’t persist on static, old library based stuff. Furthermore, it isn’t a sold action causing problems, it is the inability and ignorance of this audience using them successfully. Because using a “modern” action requires the knowledge of positioning - period.

“Things need to be much simpler!” was the gist of a recent talk.

Softpress died - isn’t it simple?

Cheers

Thomas


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Thomas,

The demise of SoftPress is not that simple at all in light of how many DECADES they have been in business. Regardless of what we think or say, SOMETHING kept them in business that long. It’s just that SOMETHING decided it best to close the doors now. For all I know we could blame BREXIT. The timing is interesting, no?

–James Wages


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On 22 Jul 2016, 8:24 am, JDW wrote:

Thomas,

The demise of SoftPress is not that simple at all …

It is: Decades of standstill and a self beloved audience! We do have people here in this Forum still working on FW3.5. Why? Because they still use Freehand as their “design” application and can’t afford to upgrade their iOS. Do you sell the same technology today that you did 10 years ago?

So BREXIT. A day AFTER the election, the most googled thing in UK was: “What does BREXIT mean and what happens now”.

It’s simply not possible to talk progressive enhanced with people like those. Sweet memories? Sure - no problem with it.

It has become clear that our prospects, both in terms of current revenue and new product development, are insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity going forward.

For what I know (and I’m still not sure having the allowance to tell):

Softpress planned developing something entirely new. This new product wouldn’t be anything like Freeway was. In other words:

Not to use for the uppermost parts of you.

So it’s damn fair not to collect money of an unaware audience to develop something unusable, isn’t it?

Web didn’t change for a long time. But somewhere in 2000, with introducing CSS3 things rapidly changed. late 2011 introducing breakpoints within the @media query - 2012 Flexbox. Revolution or Evolution?

I call it a “Growing Web”. And I was for years the pain in your butts. Not for my own satiation - just because I knew what happens.

Keep this in mind when you enter other audiences and new products.

Cheers

Thomas


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