Freeway Alternative – Pinegrow Web Designer

Nicely said everyone. Thanks for helping observers like me.


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I never heard about it, but for anyone who thinks this program could be
usefull in some way: Dragie. With an embedded CSS/JS coder. 19 bucks.

Briahsoft Technologies
https://deals.ondesoft.com/search?query=Briahsoft+Technologies

2016-08-10 14:42 GMT+02:00 Hoffkids email@hidden:

Nicely said everyone. Thanks for helping observers like me.


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A lot has changed with Pinegrow since this discussion in 2016 and the then version 2.

Today they released Pinegrow 4 (a continuation of Pinegrow 3), which includes a huge UI / User Interface rewrite. It now includes things such as a comprehensive Visual CSS Editor, and many more feature advancements for smarter, easier and faster visual web development. Bootstrap 4 support, Foundation 6.4+ coming soon, and so much more.

If you have not looked at it in a while, now is the time to reevaluate. It may be a welcome or needed addition to your toolset of visual web development apps, with the addition of all the powerful features you need in development.

Version 4 is a huge progression of Pinegrow, check out the following video to see whats new.

Pinegrow 4 Overview Video – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITSMOYJ6usA


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Fascinating. The GUI is rather compelling, although it’s clear you still need a firm grasp of the code to get the most out of the strangely-named “Pinegrow.”

Since you mention the new Pinegrow it’s only logical for us to conclude that you yourself use it. As such, I’d like to ask the following:

  1. How do I create responsive tables that hold tabular data?
  2. How do I add a site wide search feature that ties in with Google Custom Search?

These are the 2 features missing from Blocs that are important to me and keep me from using Blocs. The same would be true of any other web design tool. For now, Freeway does not empower my feeble mind to easily create Responsive sites (nor Responsive tables), but it has allowed me for YEARS to use a Sitewide search feature, which in my case is Google Custom Search (previously, I used Atomz).

Thanks,

James Wages


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These are the 2 features missing from Blocs that are important to me and keep me from using Blocs … For now, Freeway does not empower my feeble mind to easily create Responsive sites (nor Responsive tables).

Conclusion?

Either the one or the other - period!

… but it has allowed me for YEARS to use a Sitewide search feature, which in my case is Google Custom Search (previously, I used Atomz).

Keep Freeway and don’t ask app developers for those features. Most of them simply depend on the framework they’re based on. So preferably ask the bootstrap and/or foundation guys extending their stuff.

Admittedly a search feature is somehow more tricky. But behind every action in Freeway, there is a script! I remember adding a search feature even to a FWP generated WebYep (remote stuff) site. It worked perfectly fine. It was one script of dozens.

Pinegrow is very different to all apps currently available. Because you work with native HTML, CSS and JS you can, in theory (and effectively) write your own plugin with both functions. For the responsive table I even did it myself. It’s just a matter of the correct HTML5 terms/elements available in the library and a couple of classes. It even doesn’t require a plugin - just pure knowledge about the craft web design requires. One could say: Copy and Paste.

Cheers

Thomas

PS:
Just in case of interest. Those are the features I currently have available in my own grid. It enables me working extremely quick


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“Copy and Paste” is indeed what most people want to do when it comes to getting content on the web, I think. I am not talking about web design gurus. I am talking about most people.

Most people have graphics and videos and text content they want to “copy and paste” into a responsive format that looks nice. The problem then becomes how to customize the end result so it doesn’t look like a template site but something unique. And once you do that, you realize you need things like site search and it’s not really a simple matter of using “copy and paste” to achieve that, especially when it comes to making the search field look and act like you want.

So it all starts off as a lovely “copy and paste” concept, but then ends up with you either becoming somewhat of a coder or paying someone who is. The beauty of Freeway in the early days was that it gave “the rest of us” a relatively intuitive and WYSIWYG way to put things on the web (at least, it was in my mind at the time of FW2.0). But now in the world of Responsive sites, Freeway is no longer than “just copy-and-paste and be done!” app. Perhaps that is one reason for the current rewrite in SWIFT. We can only hope.

With that said, I like the easy concept behind Blocs and to some extent the latest version of PineGrow. But again, to be consistent with the “bag of tools – just use one and go!” concept of Blocs, as I said before, the two additional “ready to use for even brain dead people” tools it needs are:

  1. Site search that easily ties in with Google Custom Search (or similar).
  2. Responsive tables (that hold tabular data)

None of us know when or even if a fabulously new rewrite of Freeway, written from the ground up in SWIFT, will see the light of day. We hope it will, and hope it will debut soon, but we do not nor cannot know. As such, we continue using Freeway while mulling our fall-back options. For me, Blocs is a very promising app that could be a Freeway replacement with just a little more functionality. PineGrow too, perhaps. But for now, I still use Freeway Pro 7.

Best wishes,

James Wages


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Blocs is a stable and very fast peace of websoftware, and is constantly
updated by the programmers. It has its quirks and steep learning curve to
get things finetuned. But with every update its getting better.

If you want to continue the look and feel of Freeway, with the designer in
mind: take a look at Adobe’s Muse. A free design tool with lots of
documentation, tuts, (third party) widgets (compare with Freeway Actions)
and with a growing amount of (M)users. And already with third party design
kits to help you get started very quickly

http://smartblocks.widgetsformuse.com/
or a huge amount here:
https://musewidgets.com/collections/widgets

Enjoy,

2017-11-24 1:33 GMT+01:00 JDW email@hidden:

“Copy and Paste” is indeed what most people want to do when it comes to
getting content on the web, I think. I am not talking about web design
gurus. I am talking about most people.

Most people have graphics and videos and text content they want to “copy
and paste” into a responsive format that looks nice. The problem then
becomes how to customize the end result so it doesn’t look like a template
site but something unique. And once you do that, you realize you need
things like site search and it’s not really a simple matter of using “copy
and paste” to achieve that, especially when it comes to making the search
field look and act like you want.

So it all starts off as a lovely “copy and paste” concept, but then ends
up with you either becoming somewhat of a coder or paying someone who is.
The beauty of Freeway in the early days was that it gave “the rest of us” a
relatively intuitive and WYSIWYG way to put things on the web (at least, it
was in my mind at the time of FW2.0). But now in the world of Responsive
sites, Freeway is no longer than “just copy-and-paste and be done!” app.
Perhaps that is one reason for the current rewrite in SWIFT. We can only
hope.

With that said, I like the easy concept behind Blocs and to some extent
the latest version of PineGrow. But again, to be consistent with the “bag
of tools – just use one and go!” concept of Blocs, as I said before, the
two additional “ready to use for even brain dead people” tools it needs are:

  1. Site search that easily ties in with Google Custom Search (or similar).
  2. Responsive tables (that hold tabular data)

None of us know when or even if a fabulously new rewrite of Freeway,
written from the ground up in SWIFT, will see the light of day. We hope it
will, and hope it will debut soon, but we do not nor cannot know. As such,
we continue using Freeway while mulling our fall-back options. For me,
Blocs is a very promising app that could be a Freeway replacement with just
a little more functionality. PineGrow too, perhaps. But for now, I still
use Freeway Pro 7.

Best wishes,

James Wages


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Oh and Blocs has on Black Friday a 50% discount I noticed…

2017-11-24 12:49 GMT+01:00 email@hidden:

Blocs is a stable and very fast peace of websoftware, and is constantly
updated by the programmers. It has its quirks and steep learning curve to
get things finetuned. But with every update its getting better.

If you want to continue the look and feel of Freeway, with the designer in
mind: take a look at Adobe’s Muse. A free design tool with lots of
documentation, tuts, (third party) widgets (compare with Freeway Actions)
and with a growing amount of (M)users. And already with third party design
kits to help you get started very quickly
Home - MuseGrid
http://smartblocks.widgetsformuse.com/
or a huge amount here:
https://musewidgets.com/collections/widgets

Enjoy,

2017-11-24 1:33 GMT+01:00 JDW email@hidden:

“Copy and Paste” is indeed what most people want to do when it comes to
getting content on the web, I think. I am not talking about web design
gurus. I am talking about most people.

Most people have graphics and videos and text content they want to “copy
and paste” into a responsive format that looks nice. The problem then
becomes how to customize the end result so it doesn’t look like a template
site but something unique. And once you do that, you realize you need
things like site search and it’s not really a simple matter of using “copy
and paste” to achieve that, especially when it comes to making the search
field look and act like you want.

So it all starts off as a lovely “copy and paste” concept, but then ends
up with you either becoming somewhat of a coder or paying someone who is.
The beauty of Freeway in the early days was that it gave “the rest of us” a
relatively intuitive and WYSIWYG way to put things on the web (at least, it
was in my mind at the time of FW2.0). But now in the world of Responsive
sites, Freeway is no longer than “just copy-and-paste and be done!” app.
Perhaps that is one reason for the current rewrite in SWIFT. We can only
hope.

With that said, I like the easy concept behind Blocs and to some extent
the latest version of PineGrow. But again, to be consistent with the “bag
of tools – just use one and go!” concept of Blocs, as I said before, the
two additional “ready to use for even brain dead people” tools it needs are:

  1. Site search that easily ties in with Google Custom Search (or similar).
  2. Responsive tables (that hold tabular data)

None of us know when or even if a fabulously new rewrite of Freeway,
written from the ground up in SWIFT, will see the light of day. We hope it
will, and hope it will debut soon, but we do not nor cannot know. As such,
we continue using Freeway while mulling our fall-back options. For me,
Blocs is a very promising app that could be a Freeway replacement with just
a little more functionality. PineGrow too, perhaps. But for now, I still
use Freeway Pro 7.

Best wishes,

James Wages


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Or …

Coffeecup’s Responsive Design Pack or any stand-alone app … this weekend everything is on sale 35% off with code CYBER35

– Richard


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On 23 Nov 2017, 1:35 am, JDW wrote:

Fascinating. The GUI is rather compelling, although it’s clear you still need a firm grasp of the code to get the most out of the strangely-named “Pinegrow.”

Hi JDW,

Sorry for the delay in responding.

As Thomas already pointed out, Pinegorw offers the proper corresponding table items in the library associated with whatever you are building your page with, plain HTML5, Bootstrap, Foundation, etc. You can use them, then associate your own custom CSS classes and media queries to create whatever type of responsive tables you desire. Or use one of the many existing 3rd party responsive table frameworks natively in Pinegrow also. The same goes for any type of search you wish to implement. A few items from the library coupled with the needed associated logic of your desired chosen search.

But as you hinted, you need a certain basic grasp of HTML, CSS, JS to fully leverage things. The Visual CSS Editor now in Pinegrow should help many concerning the CSS portion. With Pinegrow nothing is really off limits though. As Thomas mentioned it works with native source files and everything is exposed and accessible for creation and manipulation. If you wanted you could use a program like Blocs to get your general responsive page structure and overall content setup based upon Bootstrap. Then use Pinegrow to help with visually adding additional features you wish to implement that Blocs presently does not have, or you don’t feel comfortable or limited implementing via its HTML Bric, Page Settings, etc. Such a workflow may be easier for some than starting from scratch in Pinegrow, but easier than just doing edits via a text editor.

Of course no app will have every feature desired by every user. With an app like Pinegrow it gives open access to add, create and manipulate the things you need however, so you can add any desired feature yourself. It looks like Blocs will continue to gain more features and access for adding things also, in version 2.5 thru version 3. Perhaps by then you will also know more what the new Freeway rewrite will offer regarding workflow and features also?

Something to consider and keep in mind, you (or anyone) could learn a lot with and from Pinegrow during the same time spent waiting for other apps to add features. By learning further while you wait, you will only improve your overall abilities and understanding. That will help with any app you end up using, and the overall general process of creating websites.

PS: The Pinegrow name was derived from a love of pine trees. As odd as it might seem, the name aids in it standing out and not getting lost in a sea of app names that can be associated with non related things. Which easily occurs with many other app names, via simple google searches.


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@JDW did you ever take into consideration or try using Pinegrow https://pinegrow.com/ , along side Blocs App ? Was just curious as you never responded. :wink:


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No, I never took into consideration nor did I ever use Pinegrow alongside the Blocs app. I am not a user of Blocs. I have only beta tested the app. If it’s developer, Norm, comes out with the 2 features I seek, then I would probably switch to Blocs at that time, assuming Freeway Pro 8 is not out by then.


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I use Pinegrow for some work, but I always feel that it’s made more for programmers than for designers. If you use Bootstrap, I’d recommend you check out Bootstrap Studio. You do need some basic coding skills to really use it properly, but the interface is much more structured than Pinegrow’s with BSS helping keep you out of trouble while still allowing you to get your hands dirty. For me it really hits a sweet spot between Blocs’s user-friendliness and Pinegrow’s brute power.


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BootStrap Studio has quite a few drawbacks, however.

For starters you can only use Bootstrap. Next you are not working directly with source files but a closed file format, so importing an existing site can become a real nightmare. The visual CSS editor is rudimentary compared to Pinegrow’s. The list quickly goes on and on, regarding BootStrap Studio having many shortcomings and drawbacks, ease of use is also very subjective based upon many of these things also.

Neither is focused on being designer centric as each requires an understanding or a willingness to learn the basics of HTML / CSS and JS if needed. But – Pinegrow – is certainly the one worth learning if anyone is gonna head in that direction, or wishes to work on existing sites or sites started in other applications.

Sounds like you may need to take more time learning Pinegrow and what it has to offer.

As a side note or perhaps related — do you really need the complete Bootstrap CSS & JS, the complete Font Awesome library and JQuery loaded to display the 4 lines of text and two buttons centered on your website ? That is a perfect example, where you could have used Pinegrow and vanilla HTML / CSS to accomplish that, instead of BootStrap Studio and all those unneeded resources. So I am not sure BootStrap Studio really helped you in that case. :wink:

Pinegrow has clear advantages between those two apps.


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I appreciate your concern for the software that I use, but I spend a lot of time with both apps and feel that BSS is better for me most of the time, and probably a friendlier transition for most FW users. Of course Pinegrow is more powerful – I said that in my previous post. But in terms of user interface and intuitiveness, I think BSS wins hands-down.

My clients need all kinds of graphic design media (electronic and print) from me, and so I don’t have the luxury of specializing only in web development. Sometimes I go several weeks between web jobs, so I need software that is simple yet allows me to tweak the code as I like. The BSS interface is brilliant in this respect, while Pinegrow can be horrendously complex at times (I’m looking at you, master pages and components). Inevitably, I spend far too much time trying to figure out – or remember – how PG does something, whereas the much simpler BSS interface always seems easier and – crucially for me – more intuitive.

So I’m stuck using Bootstrap? Big deal. It’s what I prefer to use, despite its shortcomings.

So bootstrap.css is larger than it needs to be? Who cares? My clients aren’t nitpicking over the code, they’re perfectly happy with the loading time, and they save money because my development time is a fraction of what it would be if I went “plain vanilla”.

In the end it’s all about what my clients need, and usually Bootstrap + Bootstrap Studio allows me to give them the best website for the least amount of money.


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On 22 Mar 2018, 12:40 am, derekzinger wrote:

So I’m stuck using Bootstrap? Big deal. … So bootstrap.css is larger than it needs to be? Who cares? … my development time is a fraction of what it would be if I went “plain vanilla”. … give them the best website

ò…Ó

Well, I suppose that is one way to look at it.

Especially if you can’t be bothered or see the actual value to center 4 lines of text and two buttons without using Bootstrap, Font Awesome, and JQuery. No worries, many people likewise misuse Wordpress for relatively the same or similar simple one page outcomes. Obviously “BS”Studio does what you need, regardless if what it outputs is really actually needed like on your page.

Good for you that you and your clients don’t care. :wink:


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Please don’t worry if someone doesn’t agree with you, you are free to be right if you want, as long as you don’t annoy anyone else in the process. Everyone here has made their own choices, for their own reasons. Your reasons are exquisitely important to you, and just about worthless to anyone else. (No matter how right they may be, in strictly empirical terms.)

I agree that many/most simple sites could be best served by a hand coded HTML page of maybe 20 lines of code, and an equal number of lines of CSS.

Buuuuuuuut – I am not personally tasked with building or updating those sites, and what I think they should use is just that – what I think. What I find easy is often as not going to just bring a quizzical look to anyone else’s face.

Walter

On Mar 22, 2018, at 5:00 PM, FreewayPro_User email@hidden wrote:

On 22 Mar 2018, 12:40 am, derekzinger wrote:

So I’m stuck using Bootstrap? Big deal. … So bootstrap.css is larger than it needs to be? Who cares? … my development time is a fraction of what it would be if I went “plain vanilla”. … give them the best website

ò…Ó

Well, I suppose that is one way to look at it.

Especially if you can’t be bothered or see the actual value to center 4 lines of text and two buttons without using Bootstrap, Font Awesome, and JQuery. No worries, many people likewise misuse Wordpress for relatively the same or similar simple one page outcomes. Obviously “BS”Studio does what you need, regardless if what it outputs is really actually needed like on your page.

Good for you that you and your clients don’t care. :wink:


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Thanks for the calm, balanced response, Walt. Like everyone, I choose my methods based on my clients’ needs and my own particular strengths and weaknesses. Though I know basic html and css, I am first and foremost a graphic designer, and so I prefer software that plays to my visual sensibilities while structuring the coding process for me. It’s why I originally used FW, and it’s why I prefer BSS these days.


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Man, I found a broken link on my personal site this afternoon.
Reached for Freeway Pro 7.1 and realized I haven’t touched it since upgrading to El Capitan… hence searching now for my registration number? So… I opened Safari and entered Softpress only to find out BYE BYE? Omg.

Any one know who to contact to retrieve a serial?
Anyways I will find it… always back up to DVD my purchases.

REPLACEMENT SOFTWARE GUYS?.. say what - I can not believe my favourite Web tool is FINISHED. Waaaaaaaa

I have demo’d Pingrow - its nice but not for me - and I can not see it being a replacement. Nothing will ever replace Freeway Pro. The knowledge base, the cool extras and plug-ins all developed over the years. I been using Freeway since version 4. And it has saved my butt many times. It has bee an absolute pleasure Visualizing site creation without coding. I would never dream of ever trying Dreamweaver - it gives me a fever. Of the others Apps, that I will mention - yeah Pinegrow seems to be the best for both worlds covering both Coders and Visualizers. But still… come on!

Muse - hmmmm well it sure can be fun - yet creativity and customization like the rest I am about to list - just don’t come close to Freeway. All too many tools like these - what based on Bootstraps I guess… all seem to be carved from the same block of wood. I thought people boo’d iWeb for its limitations. Surely Muse has not really fallen to the iWeb level… yet I believe people understand where I am coming from. Muse is amusing and seems to offer a growing crowd of development and clever pre-coded fun.

Blocks - yeah same mentality - building blocks - seems logical yet limiting. Use this block to have a gallery. This type of block to set your heading. This block for video. Ugh.

Sparkle - I actually bought this and have used it a few times - yeah based on blocks - super simple - super clean. I am afraid Sparkle might one day find its place next to Freeway. Waaaaa.

Hype Pro - yeah people do make responsive / interactive websites with Hype. I can be a truly fun tool. And of course with animation - bye bye Flash was why I got into Hype. But making an entire Website with it… I haven’t myself but I have seen it.

Last but not least… is Mobirise. Yuppers, another Block building App. They even have opened it up to Coders now to further add customization. I believe it will cost a user about 70 bucks to have those features opened. Yet, Mobirise is free otherwise. Certainly a template base block style web site maker. So, for what I assume most people feel is Modern and Cool and well easy to use – hell its Free!!! Both for Commercial and Personal use - a definite tool that will get in the hands of those who do not want to code. I am sure it will put a huge dent in the industry.

STILL, the pure personalization of placing any element any shape anywhere at any size and in any colour in any typeface – in any shape style form that you the Designer ever dreamed it to be - this freedom and capability belongs to Freeway! So long good friend.
That said; PEOPLE we can still design with it - its still a tool to use. Unless Apple changes OS X to a language it can not run on.

Ugh now where is my dang serial!!!


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Any one know who to contact to retrieve a serial?

I believe an email to support(at)softpress.com from the email address you used to register your purchase will return you a serial #

D


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