html text

Freeway
1

i am having trouble using html text. I know there is much less control than using graphic text. but…

my problem is vertical spacing of the lines of text. they are very far apart. If I import a txt document I will get very close spaced text. however, even if I am editing that text and hit “return” I will be back to each line being spaced wide apart - like double line or something.

is there some setting to control this? there has to be since I am typing html text right now and the lines are closely spaced.

thanks - rob

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2

Sometime around 16/9/08 (at 13:19 -0400) rob jillson said:

if I am editing that text and hit “return” I will be back to each
line being spaced wide apart - like double line or something.

Normal HTML formatting always puts a double line space between
paragraphs. When you hit return you are making a paragraph break, so
you get the double space.

It is possible to fiddle with CSS styling to change this behaviour,
but it is best not to fight things quite that much.

If you just want a simple line break without resorting to the big
step of inserting paragraph breaks, hold down the Shift key as you
type the return. This creates a ‘soft return’, which is generated as
a simple line break in the HTML code.

Does this help explain the issue? Is the shift-return the answer for
your requirements?

k

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3

Try using line break (shift + return) instead of “return”.

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4

If I remember you’re using Express which has no leading options unless you add it manually through HTML markup.

If you wanted to add a page-wide leading say 20px you’d go to “Page” > “HTML Markup” and drop in this:

<style type="text/css">
    p { leading: 20px; }
</style>

Then all your leading for your HTML text would be 20px since Freeway wraps your HTML text in “p” (paragraph) tags.

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5

On 16 Sep 2008, at 19:53, Dan J wrote:

p { leading: 20px; }

Well when I saw it (the above mentioned trick) I thought ‘this is nice!’

and I even tried 10px but it did not work , not with FFOX and not
with Safari.

Then I looked into the HTML but I could not find anything which would
overwrite the leading,
so the question is, what did I miss?

Below is the complete css :

body { margin:0px; background-color:#fff }
html { height:100% }
img { margin:0px; border-style:none }
button { margin:0px; border-style:none; padding:0px; background-
color:transparent; vertical-align:top }
p:first-child { margin-top:0px }
table { empty-cells:hide }
.f-sp { font-size:1px; visibility:hidden }
.f-lp { margin-bottom:0px }
.f-fp { margin-top:0px }
.f-x1 { }
.f-x2 { }
.f-x3 { }
em { font-style:italic }
h1 { font-size:18px }
h1:first-child { margin-top:0px }
strong { font-weight:bold }
.style8 { color:#00f; font-family:Georgia,Palatino,Times,serif; font-
size:12px }
.NBTextStyle { font-family: ; color: #000000; }
.NBTextStyle a:link { font-family: ; color: #000000; text-decoration:
none; outline: none;}
.NBTextStyle a:visited { font-family: ; color: #000000; text-
decoration: none; outline: none;}
.NBTextStyle a:active { font-family: ; color: #000000; text-
decoration: none; outline: none;}
.NBTextStyle a:hover { font-family: ; color: #0000FF; text-
decoration: none; outline: none;}
→

p { leading: 10px; }

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6

thanks very much - the “soft” return was exactly what I was looking for.

I find it very odd that this is not an option via the inspector. I did a little digging into the formatting options in html and I couldn’t find the “soft” return explained in any of the forms, etc… All of the other basic functions of formatting html in the the inspector panel of freeway. I think softpress should put in a button to select the hard or soft return for formatting. It would really help for newbies like me.

thanks again for the explaination

rj

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7

Sometime around 16/9/08 (at 17:19 -0400) rob jillson said:

All of the other basic functions of formatting html in the the
inspector panel of freeway. I think softpress should put in a
button to select the hard or soft return for formatting.

But it isn’t actually anything to do with formatting! It is just typing.

It is the same in all desktop publishing apps too, in the sense that
return creates a new paragraph and shift-return just makes a
line-break without starting a new paragraph.

That’s exactly what happens in Freeway. But Freeway is also
faithful to the way HTML handles type, so it puts extra space between
paragraphs. This is how HTML data structure and text handling works.
It isn’t actually first and foremost a cosmetic issue, it is a matter
of dealing correctly with a logical data element separator - in this
case hard returns.

You can use CSS controls to adjust this paragraph spacing, but it’ll
be a good idea to get used to working with it in the normal way for a
while first.

k

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8

I don’t really understand how that works in word and pages. If I hit return once in those programs in returns me one line just as it did with my old typewriter. If I return twice, then I get a new paragraph. And, in those programs, I can control my line space on the return, single, one and a half, or double. might not be the way it is programmed up that is the way it works to me as a non-programmer.

I do appreciate the answer. One more question, if I were in an html editor - what would the code be for getting a soft return versus a hard return.

thanks rj

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9

Hard return

Some text here.


Soft return
Some text here.

Or:

Some text here.
Some more text.

Todd

On Sep 16, 2008, at 5:05 PM, rob jillson wrote:

One more question, if I were in an html editor - what would the code be for getting a soft return versus a hard return.

10

Paragraph return

< /p> (end of paragraph) without the space

soft return (line break)

<br/>

These are difficult to show properly on the forum

David

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11

Sometime around 16/9/08 (at 18:05 -0400) rob jillson said:

I don’t really understand how that works in word and pages. If I
hit return once in those programs in returns me one line just as it
did with my old typewriter.

One important thing you need to do when dealing with creating layouts
and handling content for the web is that it is NOT just about how
things look.

When you type a return in a DTP app (forget typewriters, they’ve not
advanced much since the beginning of the 20th century when the Shift
key was invented) you create a logical string of text. When you type
a return, that string is ended and a new one is begun.

Each string is a self-contained paragraph. Each paragraph can be
styled up independently, and you can choose things such as
inter-paragraph spacing and so on.

In the web, things are similar - except that in this potentially
highly interactive and dynamic environment - that is rendered on the
fly in a dozen different browsers - the way paragraphs are normally
handled is somewhat different. For one thing, the default is to get
extra space between paragraphs.

You seem to want to be able to presss Return and not get a paragraph
break. But this is normal behaviour in the web. What you have to make
sure you’ve grokked is why you break text up into different
paragraphs and where the soft-return linebreak would be better.

If I return twice, then I get a new paragraph.

Actually, every time you hit Return you get a new paragraph. If you
type a word and then two returns you’ll have three paragraphs, as
you’ll see if you look at whatever your apps use to show you such
stats about your work.

And, in those programs, I can control my line space on the return,
single, one and a half, or double.

That’s line spacing, not paragraph spacing. A whole different kettle
of fish! :slight_smile:

I hope someone else can step in here - I know I’m rushing this
somewhat, but I’m off to Rotterdam first thing in the morning. I
might be away from the Internet for a few days!

if I were in an html editor - what would the code be for getting a
soft return versus a hard return.

is paragraph return (I'm not going into details about enclosing tags etc.), and
is for a line break.

k

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12

On 16 Sep 2008, at 23:05, rob jillson wrote:

I don’t really understand how that works in word and pages. If I
hit return once in those programs in returns me one line just as it
did with my old typewriter.

No, if you hit Return twice in Pages, you get two paragraphs. The
‘space before’ and ‘space after’ in Pages is set, by default, to zero.
If you set ‘space after’ to something more than zero, then hit Return
once, you’ll get a blank line, and a new paragraph. Although it may
not be exactly one blank line, it depends what you set ‘space after’
to; you can adjust it so it gives you exactly the space you want.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com

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13

These are difficult to show properly on the forum

As can be seen from both Todd and Keith’s post which either dont appear at all or are missing / (forward slashes)

David

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14

Oops, a CSS mishap.

It should read:

<style type="text/css">
    p { line-height: 20px; }
</style>

There ya go, now it should work. Freeway’s got me confused. Why doesn’t it say the CSS property instead of the “DTP” lingo? I know I know it’s built for DTP people, but I vote for a change.

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15

thanks a ton everyone! very helpful.

I have taken an html page and opened it in GoLive (I have adobe cs2) and have looked at the programing or source or whatever it is called. having seen this, the

and the
make total sense.

one last thing - what is the “code” to make text “italic” or normal. I am looking at text that is in italics and that is normal but can’t figure out what part of the code is controlling that.

thanks - I know I am a blind man in the dark and I appreciate your patience.

rj

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16

Italic is . Here’s a cheat-sheet <http://www.w3schools.com/tags/tag_font_style.asp>

Todd

On Sep 16, 2008, at 8:47 PM, rob jillson wrote:

one last thing - what is the “code” to make text “italic” or normal.

17

Italics in HTML is

<em> </em>

Bold is

<strong> </strong>

Normal would be without any of those code snippets.

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18

Actually, em is specific to adding emphasis. If you just want to put an italic on a word, without giving it any specific emphasis (semantically), then wrap it in an i tag:

<i>italic, but not serious about it</i>

Walter

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19

On 16/9/08 23:21, “Keith Martin” email@hidden wrote:

You seem to want to be able to presss Return and not get a paragraph
break. But this is normal behaviour in the web. What you have to make
sure you’ve grokked is why you break text up into different
paragraphs and where the soft-return linebreak would be better.

I know I’m rushing this
somewhat, but I’m off to Rotterdam first thing in the morning. I
might be away from the Internet for a few days!

Hi Keith,

Grokking Rotterdam, eh?

Must be akin to being a Stranger in a Strange Land.

Neil

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20

To help you visualise this line return difference in Freeway, If you turn the “invisibles on”:

Main Menu > View > Invisibles

In the text, you will actually see a different character for a paragraph “return” and a single line “shift-return”.

David

On 16 Sep 2008, at 23:05, rob jillson wrote:

I do appreciate the answer. One more question, if I were in an html editor - what would the code be for getting a soft return versus a hard return.

David Owen
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