No More WHOIS Protection?

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1

Just got this from my domain registrar. Troubling.

Todd
https://creativ.space
https://xiiro.com https://xiiro.com/

Did you know that your privacy rights are currently under threat? ICANN is considering introducing a rule that would impact all netizens. If you care about your online privacy, this is a big deal.

Under new guidelines proposed by MarkMonitor and other organizations who represent the same industries that backed SOPA, domain holders with sites associated to “commercial activity” will no longer be able to protect their private information with WHOIS protection services. “Commercial activity” casts a wide net, which means a vast number of domain holders will be affected. Your privacy provider could be forced to publish your contact data in WHOIS or give it out to anyone who complains about your website, without due process. Why should a small business owner have to publicize her home address just to have a website?

We think your privacy should be protected, regardless of whether your website is personal or commercial, and your confidential info should not be revealed without due process. If you agree, please contact ICANN right away and demand your right to privacy and due process. Let them know you object to any release of info without a court order. There’s no time to waste – the close date for comments is July 7, 2015.

Visit our new site RespectOurPrivacy.com and we’ll guide you through the process of calling or emailing ICANN.

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2

One the other shoe… Most website are selling something. And there’s very little traceability for the buyer when something goes wrong so I can understand the reasoning that some say “commercial” sites should be more transparent to know who you are dealing with.

Would it only affect you if you’ve got something to hide?

–

David Owen

On 25 Jun 2015, at 03:06, Todd email@hidden wrote:

Just got this from my domain registrar. Troubling.

Todd
https://creativ.space
https://xiiro.com https://xiiro.com/

Did you know that your privacy rights are currently under threat? ICANN is considering introducing a rule that would impact all netizens. If you care about your online privacy, this is a big deal.

Under new guidelines proposed by MarkMonitor and other organizations who represent the same industries that backed SOPA, domain holders with sites associated to “commercial activity” will no longer be able to protect their private information with WHOIS protection services. “Commercial activity” casts a wide net, which means a vast number of domain holders will be affected. Your privacy provider could be forced to publish your contact data in WHOIS or give it out to anyone who complains about your website, without due process. Why should a small business owner have to publicize her home address just to have a website?

We think your privacy should be protected, regardless of whether your website is personal or commercial, and your confidential info should not be revealed without due process. If you agree, please contact ICANN right away and demand your right to privacy and due process. Let them know you object to any release of info without a court order. There’s no time to waste – the close date for comments is July 7, 2015.

Visit our new site RespectOurPrivacy.com and we’ll guide you through the process of calling or emailing ICANN.

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3

Hi David,
I see your point and I generally think transparency in site ownership can only be a good thing although I know from experience how much rubbish I get from spammers scraping whois information trying to sell me something or other. I’ve a couple of clients in Germany who are required by law to add an "Impressum’ (Impressum - Wikipedia) page to their site stating who they are as well as their contact details. For online stores I think this level of transparency will eventually become commonplace.
Regards,
Tim.

On 25 Jun 2015, at 10:00, David Owen wrote:

Would it only affect you if you’ve got something to hide?

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4

On 25 Jun 2015, at 13:10, Tim Plumb wrote:

Hi David,
I see your point and I generally think transparency in site ownership can only be a good thing although I know from experience how much rubbish I get from spammers scraping whois information trying to sell me something or other. I’ve a couple of clients in Germany who are required by law to add an "Impressum’ (Impressum - Wikipedia) page to their site stating who they are as well as their contact details. For online stores I think this level of transparency will eventually become commonplace.
Regards,
Tim.

I know a website that charges a few pounds for membership, which is required to access a forum hosted there. Whois gives the name and contact details. The name is false, the address is an accommodation address, and the phone is a pay as you go that receives texts but is never answered by voice. I, and others, believe we know who the person is, and the reasons for hiding are (anti-) social rather than criminal, but it does show that domain ownership details are not checked.

With such a weak system, does it matter whether details are disclosed or not?

David

On 25 Jun 2015, at 10:00, David Owen wrote:

Would it only affect you if you’ve got something to hide?

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5

Why should a small business owner have to publicize her home address just to have a website?

They dont. I am sure there are plenty of addresses they could use rather than a home address.

D

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6

As consumers we have the choice to give a merchant our $, so if someone is that concerned about a lack of transparency we have the option to take our business elsewhere. It may hurt the merchant’s business but that should be their choice. Why should I voluntarily bend over and allow some $%#@!*( &^^$(!# decide that my choice to keep my info private is not my choice after all?

And for those that think this will only apply to commercial sites raise your hand. This is just the foot-in-the-door.

And if you’re referring to a physical home address (as opposed to an email address) then I like most people have only one, not plenty.

Todd
https://creativ.space
https://xiiro.com

Why should a small business owner have to publicize her home address just to have a website?

They dont. I am sure there are plenty of addresses they could use rather than a home address.

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7

Probably. I think there’s pressure to make fraudulent, criminal or terrorist site owners more visible. But then Facebook could probably be included in that list too :stuck_out_tongue:

–
David Owen

On 25 Jun 2015, at 18:49, Todd email@hidden wrote:

And for those that think this will only apply to commercial sites raise your hand. This is just the foot-in-the-door.

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8

My opinion is that if I am doing ‘business’ then I should provide a ‘business’ address to my clients/customers.

If I dont have one then I should get one to help legitimise my business.

D

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9

Do they allow PO Boxes? If they don’t, that leaves that option out.

I’m not shy, I just have my info out there. But I understand if some people wouldn’t want their home address available like that. Many people work from home now. But there are a lot of reasons to not want to publish that. One such reason is homeowner’s associations (HOAs). Where I live, technically we are not supposed to run a business in the residential areas, but as long as we’re not bringing in traffic, it doesn’t matter. But in other neighborhoods, the HOA will go after you if you run any kind of business from your home. Your address on your WHOIS listing for your business’ site will just give them more ammo.

Then there’s the fact that even if you do your best, sometimes there’s a customer who just isn’t satisfied. Or maybe they’re crazy. If your business type might attract some of those, you don’t want them to get your home address.

What if you’re an entertainer? Granted, if you’re big enough that you might get stalkers, you should have people and the address could be listed at some manager’s office or something, but for those in between they may be doing it themselves and only have their home address to work with.

My business is small, DeltaDave. I hope it’s big someday. But right now, I don’t want my clients to know I work from home. Someday, I won’t be. But right now, due to the small size, I cannot justify paying for a “business address to provide to my clients/customers.”

(That’s not really true, I never hope to be that big. :slight_smile: I’m just making a point in that last paragraph.)

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10

right now, I don’t want my clients to know I work from home

I totally understand that POV but for me (who is also a small business) I think it is essential to have some sort of accommodation address if you do not wish to use your home address - for whatever reason.

It doesn’t have to cost much - I have seen prices from £60 pa for a UK address.

D

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11

Despite what I am about to say, I am a privacy advocate. I should have privacy protection because I’m a really great guy. Don’t believe me? Just ask my mother.

But should the hacker have his/her privacy protected? What about the spammer? The black market drug dealer? The neo-nazi, white supremacist or foreign terrorist recruiter then? Where do we draw the line between who we protect as a group and our obligation to protect ourselves?

In many ways, that line has already been drawn-- long before any of us were born.

In the US, if you are legally driving then you have a state-issued driver’s license. That license, with your full legal name, address, weight, height, eye-color, date of birth and license number is a public document and as such is publicly available. I can get a copy of all your information contained in that public document.

Vote much? Voter polls are also publicly available documents in the US and are commonly used to locate people.

There are dozens of examples beyond these of how your information is either publicly available or imminently accessible-- through already legal means.

There’s been no place in the US where, even doing small business from home, that laws do not require you to maintain a business license-- another public document complete with your name, phone and the location of your operation.

But as with anything, there are ways around such transparency… you can keep a mailbox for your address. Have separate phones for business. Neither of these options are all that costly.

But for most legitimate businesses it’s actually counter-productive to maintain such privacy. After all, you want people to find you, to contact you, etc. The concept of selective privacy on this level just sounds confusing.

If the WHOIS rules are clear and universally applied, then I think they’re not so bad. I say this as someone who has invoked those rules to his advantage and for my own sense of justice.

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12

Good point, Ernie. But one thing about those accessible documents. If you remember the early days of the Internet, some governments put ALL that info online. After a while, they realized it should be limited and some was removed. If you want to get the data, you have to go to some office or somehow request the info in person.

As far as protected WHOIS services, I don’t know how it works, but if someone is doing the bad stuff that you describe online, isn’t there already a way for whoever needs to stop them to do so? Due process, court orders, and all that?

I don’t think we should ALL have to give up that just because of a few bad people online.

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13

An unfortunate thing that I have seen (not personally, but closely) is when a person posts an original point of view on Twitter or elsewhere about gaming or politics or gender – anything that gets the dander up among those who feel that their point of view is canonical – their ICANN registration details are the first thing that criminals look for to begin the process of “doxxing” her or him. Stories abound of a full-scale SWAT presence on the front porch because someone believed that their own point of view was “reality” and all others must be crushed, lest people get ideas.

Walter

On Jun 25, 2015, at 8:10 AM, Tim Plumb email@hidden wrote:

Hi David,
I see your point and I generally think transparency in site ownership can only be a good thing although I know from experience how much rubbish I get from spammers scraping whois information trying to sell me something or other. I’ve a couple of clients in Germany who are required by law to add an "Impressum’ (Impressum - Wikipedia) page to their site stating who they are as well as their contact details. For online stores I think this level of transparency will eventually become commonplace.
Regards,
Tim.

On 25 Jun 2015, at 10:00, David Owen wrote:

Would it only affect you if you’ve got something to hide?

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14

Something I would point out is that when you purchase something online you are generally doing so through a billing company and your agreement is with them rather than the owner of the site, so if you have a problem it will be handled in accordance with the conditions of the billing companies that almost always side with the customer.

I have been selling eBooks online for several years and always hidden my contact details in the Who Is database simply because I don’t want every person on the planet having direct access to my home address or calling me at 3.00am because they have deleted an ebook from their hard drive. If you are a photographer for example you also may not want to advertise the address where you keep lots of expensive equipment.

The spammers and the scammers are clearly a problem but they probably purchased their domains using stolen credit cards so you be sure they will find ways around this.

Ashley

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