Pixils vs inches

Freeway
1

Basic question

what is the size of an 8 1/2" x 11 page in px measurement in FW? It
seems diferent in different programs
Thank you for your answers
Julie

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2

Hi Julie,
The dimensions 11in x 8.5in converts to 4400px x 3400px in Photoshop, would love to have a monitor which would accommodate those pixels. I usually set sites to around 800px x 700px. Photoshop pixel dimensions match Freeways, which software is causing you the mismatch?
RegardsStephen

— On Fri, 2/10/09, Julie email@hidden wrote:

From: Julie email@hidden
Subject: Pixils vs inches
To: email@hidden
Date: Friday, 2 October, 2009, 9:34 AM

Basic question

what is the size of an 8 1/2" x 11 page in px measurement in FW? It seems diferent in different programs
Thank you for your answers
Julie

Sent from my iPhone

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3

Sometime around 2/10/09 (at 04:34 -0400) Julie said:

what is the size of an 8 1/2" x 11 page in px measurement

Simple math: 72 pixels to the inch, in the abstract world of
screen-resolution data. So 8.572 = 612px, and 1172 = 792px.

But don’t mistake this for meaning that a 72 pixel-square box on
someone’s screen will display at the size of a 1-inch object in
real-world terms. Today everyone’s screens pack in more pixels per
inch in terms of actual physical measurements, so 72 pixels will
appear somewhat smaller - and different in different displays, as
some pack more pixels in than others.

Recent versions of Acrobat have muddied the waters further by scaling
things according to a different measure. I know the arguments for
this, but I think it is dumb, dumb, dumb to have 100% in InDesign be
so dramatically different to 100% in Acrobat.

Basically Julie, don’t try to pin this stuff down too much. It can be
a little like trying to learn knot-making using live eels.

k

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4

Sometime around 2/10/09 (at 02:22 -0700) J Meadowcroft said:

The dimensions 11in x 8.5in converts to 4400px x 3400px in Photoshop

Only at 400 pixels to the inch.
All things are relative, and that’s the absolute truth.

k

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5

Thank Keith
I am actually making a form for a client thAt will be handed out. So
this isnot a web based thing. I want to use freeway because if some of
th design tricks I have learned in it and like… So w that extra info
and yours what px size should I make the doc?
Thank you
J

Sent from my

On Oct 2, 2009, at 6:13, Keith Martin email@hidden wrote:

Sometime around 2/10/09 (at 04:34 -0400) Julie said:

what is the size of an 8 1/2" x 11 page in px measurement

Simple math: 72 pixels to the inch, in the abstract world of screen-
resolution data. So 8.572 = 612px, and 1172 = 792px.

But don’t mistake this for meaning that a 72 pixel-square box on
someone’s screen will display at the size of a 1-inch object in real-
world terms. Today everyone’s screens pack in more pixels per inch
in terms of actual physical measurements, so 72 pixels will appear
somewhat smaller - and different in different displays, as some pack
more pixels in than others.

Recent versions of Acrobat have muddied the waters further by
scaling things according to a different measure. I know the
arguments for this, but I think it is dumb, dumb, dumb to have 100%
in InDesign be so dramatically different to 100% in Acrobat.

Basically Julie, don’t try to pin this stuff down too much. It can
be a little like trying to learn knot-making using live eels.

k

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6

Hi,
When I mapped it out on ps it came to approx what Keith said. But when
I changed the dimentions of my project it beccame smaller in fw. And I
had it at 800 x 600 and that was a bit shy of 8 1/2 x 11
J

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 2, 2009, at 5:22, J Meadowcroft
email@hidden wrote:

Hi Julie,
The dimensions 11in x 8.5in converts to 4400px x 3400px in
Photoshop, would love to have a monitor which would accommodate
those pixels. I usually set sites to around 800px x 700px. Photoshop
pixel dimensions match Freeways, which software is causing you the
mismatch?
RegardsStephen

— On Fri, 2/10/09, Julie email@hidden wrote:

From: Julie email@hidden
Subject: Pixils vs inches
To: email@hidden
Date: Friday, 2 October, 2009, 9:34 AM

Basic question

what is the size of an 8 1/2" x 11 page in px measurement in FW? It
seems diferent in different programs
Thank you for your answers
Julie

Sent from my iPhone

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7

On 2 Oct 2009, at 12:19, Julie wrote:

I am actually making a form for a client thAt will be handed out. So
this isnot a web based thing. I want to use freeway because if some
of th design tricks I have learned in it and like… So w that extra
info and yours what px size should I make the doc?

If it’s to be handed out in hard-copy form Julie, I’d make it a PDF. I
don’t think Freeway is the sort of application to make this sort of
thing, unless it’s going to be purely Web-based. Apple’s Pages would
be better, or just use any layout application and make it a PDF using
the ‘Print’ dialog.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com

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8

Sometime around 2/10/09 (at 07:19 -0400) Julie said:

I am actually making a form for a client thAt will be handed out. So
this is not a web based thing.

You do realise that you can’t print from Freeway, don’t you? You can
print from a web browser of course, but all bitmap graphics will be
low resolution and moderately obviously pixellated.

What page layout software do you have now? Using Freeway might be
fine, but if there’s something more suitable it should be considered.
And much of the basic layout concepts in Freeway are the same in
other professional (and more print-oriented) layout programs. So…

Apple Pages?

Microsoft Word? (Just mentioned for comedic effect. Do not, I repeat
do NOT try to use this for page design work!)

InDesign or QuarkXPress?

Illustrator or FreeHand?

Scribus? (Open-source alternative, of sorts, to InDesign or QuarkXPress)

k

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9

Sometime around 2/10/09 (at 07:24 -0400) Julie said:

when I changed the dimentions of my project it beccame smaller in
fw. And I had it at 800 x 600 and that was a bit shy of 8 1/2 x 11

I have no real idea what you mean by changing the dimensions of the
project and it becoming smaller, BUT - if you need to design
something for print it really is best to design it in a print-aware
package.

Remember what I said about tying knots with eels?

k

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10

Lol I don’t even own word!
Pages
Illustrator etc. I can save it as a PDF as an export from fw. That’s
what I was planning.
It’s an order form and I like the table feature… Is there a better
program?
Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 2, 2009, at 7:52, Keith Martin email@hidden wrote:

Sometime around 2/10/09 (at 07:19 -0400) Julie said:

I am actually making a form for a client thAt will be handed out.
So this is not a web based thing.

You do realise that you can’t print from Freeway, don’t you? You can
print from a web browser of course, but all bitmap graphics will be
low resolution and moderately obviously pixellated.

What page layout software do you have now? Using Freeway might be
fine, but if there’s something more suitable it should be
considered. And much of the basic layout concepts in Freeway are the
same in other professional (and more print-oriented) layout
programs. So…

Apple Pages?

Microsoft Word? (Just mentioned for comedic effect. Do not, I repeat
do NOT try to use this for page design work!)

InDesign or QuarkXPress?

Illustrator or FreeHand?

Scribus? (Open-source alternative, of sorts, to InDesign or
QuarkXPress)

k

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11

Not to derail this thread, but Keith, what is this about Acrobat and InDesign not being the same at 100%?

I use these apps all the time and I don;t recall that problem coming up, but I’d like to know more about it before I get bit by it!

Thanks…

PS Love the eel analogy!

Bob

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12

It’s comments like this we learn from.

Thank you all for your imput I will try pages and learn their table

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 2, 2009, at 8:25, Robert Bovasso email@hidden wrote:

Not to derail this thread, but Keith, what is this about Acrobat and
InDesign not being the same at 100%?

I use these apps all the time and I don;t recall that problem coming
up, but I’d like to know more about it before I get bit by it!

Thanks…

PS Love the eel analogy!

Bob

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13

I can save it as a PDF as an export from fw. That’s what I was planning.

Except… no you can’t. Freeway publishes HTML, it doesn’t print or
export PDFs.

If you really have to design a print job in Freeway it can be done,
but be aware that you will have to print (to PDF, presumably) from a
browser, so whatever it looks like in the browser is how it will
print. And also be aware that there’s no precise way to specify page
breaks. But trial and error will get you there.

k

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14

Sometime around 2/10/09 (at 08:25 -0400) Robert Bovasso said:

Not to derail this thread, but Keith, what is this about Acrobat and
InDesign not being the same at 100%?

It is quite simple really, and it affects those designing multimedia
PDFs for display at specific sizes. Because of how recent versions of
Acrobat scale things, the relationship between document dimensions
and display pixel dimensions is not the same as it is in any
print-based design app (or screen-based design app for that matter).

Make a document in InDesign, any size as long as it is’t huge. Show it at 100%.
Make a PDF of that and open it in Acrobat. View at 100% in Acrobat…
The size will be quite obviously different.

It doesn’t affect the layout of course, other than things looking a
different size. If you use PDFs for print workthis is fine and you’d
probably never be conscious of the discrepancy. But if you want to
use PDFs as a high-level screen-delivery vehicle (as I’ve done in the
past and am doing at the moment) then you’ll have to come to terms
with this.

This is part of Adobe’s efforts at regularising display dimensions
and relating on-screen document sizes to their printed counterparts.
Except (a) it is only done by one development team within the
company, and (b) it does NOT make sense when it comes to on-screen
design precision OR showing bitmap multimedia content (i.e. movies)
at the proper pixel-for-pixel size.

Look in Acrobat’s Preferences, in the Page Display section. The
Resolution section in my setup has “Use system sessing: 115
pixels/inch” and “Custom resolution: [98] pixels/inch”.

If I set it to use a custom PPI setting of 72 then scaling the PDF to
100% in Acrobat matches InDesign’s 100% view size precisely. BUT this
is not Acrobat’s default or something that can be controlled at the
document level - so no matter what I do, I have no real control over
the pixel dimensions that the document will use on anyone else’s
setup. Sure, I can tell it to show at 100%, to fit width, or other
things like that. But that’s about as precise as drawing with a lump
of coal.

I’m not that surprised that the view scale doesn’t work this way in
the pro-level design apps. A change of this kind would cause major
ructions in the InDesign or Illustrator userbases. My guess is that
Acrobat is seen by its software management team more as a
business-level app, an end-delivery tool most of the time, despite
the high level of prepress, editorial and media authoring
capabilities it has.

k

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15

Thanks for the detailed explanation, Keith.

The problem with Acrobat is I don’t think Adobe knows WHAT to do with it. One minute it’s a business app, the next a print production standard. (We even dropped $800 for InProduction years back. Which has since been InTheCrapper.)

They keep rearranging the menus, have the same functionality in more than one place, and have similarly named functions that behave quite differently.

I have to use it, but I don’t have to like it.

Bob

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16

Working in QuarkXpress you need to set the view to about 131% to view
an A4 page at near a true A4 size in the real world

(the same A4 sheet looks tiny from across the office - as Keith said
“All things are relative”)

Just my two pence worth :wink:

David

On 2 Oct 2009, at 15:05, Keith Martin wrote:

Make a document in InDesign, any size as long as it is’t huge. Show
it at 100%.

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17

Sometime around 2/10/09 (at 16:23 +0100) David Owen said:

Working in QuarkXpress you need to set the view to about 131% to
view an A4 page at near a true A4 size in the real world

Yep, although that’s a function of your monitor’s pixel count rather
than something to do with QuarkXPress in particular.

Of course, we’re not comparing an on-screen page to its printed
equivalent, it is about comparing an on-screen layout to the size of
the same item in PDF format. Gaaah.

k

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18

I did the form in Freeway and it turned out awesome. Thank you for
your input.

BUt I had one snag… When I exported to a gif I lost all the lines of
the table.

If there isn’t a way to prevent this?

is there a program you gurus recommend to do a table that I can
export into photoshop etc wo losing the lines? or would you think it
is just easier to put graphic boxes into the table with borders?

Thank you for your help.

my form can be seen at: http://www.grassrootsweb.net/test1

Julie

On Oct 2, 2009, at 8:12 AM, Julie wrote:

Lol I don’t even own word!
Pages
Illustrator etc. I can save it as a PDF as an export from fw.
That’s what I was planning.
It’s an order form and I like the table feature… Is there a better
program?
Thanks

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 2, 2009, at 7:52, Keith Martin email@hidden wrote:

Sometime around 2/10/09 (at 07:19 -0400) Julie said:

I am actually making a form for a client thAt will be handed out.
So this is not a web based thing.

You do realise that you can’t print from Freeway, don’t you? You
can print from a web browser of course, but all bitmap graphics
will be low resolution and moderately obviously pixellated.

What page layout software do you have now? Using Freeway might be
fine, but if there’s something more suitable it should be
considered. And much of the basic layout concepts in Freeway are
the same in other professional (and more print-oriented) layout
programs. So…

Apple Pages?

Microsoft Word? (Just mentioned for comedic effect. Do not, I
repeat do NOT try to use this for page design work!)

InDesign or QuarkXPress?

Illustrator or FreeHand?

Scribus? (Open-source alternative, of sorts, to InDesign or
QuarkXPress)

k

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19

When I exported to a gif I lost all the lines of the table.

Instead, preview your page in a browser then choose File > Print, and
save as a PDF using the PDF button in the Print dialog.

k

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20

Thank you… I had a duh moment … I knew that oi!! Lol

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 2, 2009, at 16:48, Keith Martin email@hidden wrote:

When I exported to a gif I lost all the lines of the table.

Instead, preview your page in a browser then choose File > Print,
and save as a PDF using the PDF button in the Print dialog.

k

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