That, my friend is a good definition of “silent” in my opinion.
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2018-01-05 3:25 GMT+01:00 steve farber email@hidden:
That, my friend is a good definition of “silent” in my opinion.
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I see there have been two new versions of Fretspace within the last month …
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Exactly.
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Since programers need to make money and I suspect sales of the older programs, including Freeway, are slow, I suspect he needed a faster turnaround product to bring in some income… which of course slows down the development of Freeway.
Perhaps we should send some “nudge” emails to see if we can elicit a response.
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I’m not sure what kind of “response” you are expecting from Softpress. They have already announced that Freeway is being rewritten (by one very skilled person) using Swift. To help fund this the programmer is selling copies of his own work Fretspace. Silence does not equate to inaction. In fact if they were to reply to every request for updates then there would be no time left to get on with the rewrite.
Freeway still works and still produces great responsive websites despite what certain others may claim. I, for one, am happy to wait to see what the “new” Freeway brings whilst keeping an eye on alternatives should this sadly not happen. I also do not wish to detract from and delay the rewrite by requesting pointless progress updates.
All the best
Gordon
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I concur with Gordon Low.
Mr. Hughes is indeed a very talented software engineer whom I have had the pleasure of meeting in person a couple times in the past when travelled to Oxford to meet with Richard Logan and the rest of his team on business. A total rewrite of a major app like Freeway in Swift won’t be as swift as many hope, but if the funding can be maintained to see the end product to fruition, I trust it will be modern and worthy of the wait.
–James Wages
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Given the major rewrite I wouldn’t be surprised if it around 18 months or so given the testing and tweaking even as it reaches alpha and beta states. This is a simple OS compatibility update. It’s a ground up rewrite.
Then there’s issues like support for backward compatibility for import of older Freeway documents and previous operating systems. Throughout the process, what can/will be supported may change depending on time and resources.
Keep in mind that Fretspace is a sign he/they may be doing other work which is a factor. To me, it’s an important sign they’re going to try to maintain financial solvency.
Developers tend not to like talking about target release dates publicly until they’re very near because they can be a bit rubbery.
Look at a company like Affinity/Serif and how long it’s taken from the first acknowledgment they were developing Publish to a more public target. And they’re first now at a point where they’ve show a sneak peek and they’re still aways away from a public beta.
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Thats all fine and good but we, the loyal users who relied on Freeway for our business can not afford to wait around for something that may or may not ever come. And I disagree completely with Gordon. Freeway is woefully inadequate in creating modern websites. When competing against others using today’s software or coding, Freeway is a crippling handicap. I have waited for well over a year. Without any updated info I am done. I have a business to run too.
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Will you go already!?
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 7, 2018, at 12:58 PM, steve farber email@hidden wrote:
Thats all fine and good but we, the loyal users who relied on Freeway for our business can not afford to wait around for something that may or may not ever come. And I disagree completely with Gordon. Freeway is woefully inadequate in creating modern websites. When competing against others using today’s software or coding, Freeway is a crippling handicap. I have waited for well over a year. Without any updated info I am done. I have a business to run too.
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i wish mr Hughes all the best when rewriting Freeway in Swift. I think also
that it’s a great risk to put one man on that job. Or is it a team, I may
hope so. What will else happen if he gets ill a few months before the
release… Then we’ve waited perhaps 2 years and it will collapse again,
or when its release date is so far away it becomes outdated when published?
Competitors aren’t sittin’ ducks either. …
Organising a crowdfunding should have been a better idea with all those
loyal FW users who would surely had put their money on this process …
speeds up work a lot when there’s more money to put in this project.
I agree with Steve… If you want support for this project you’ll have to
inform your loyal and potential users. If it’s only once a month… Now
we’re all guessing and seeking for alternatives which, when they suits our
needs, probably never will be replaced anymore by Freeway X.
For the ones who have time to wait: good luck to you. I’ll hope honestly
its worth waiting. But I got a business to run too…
Andries
2018-01-07 22:49 GMT+01:00 Frank Harshbarger email@hidden:
Will you go already!?
Sent from my iPad
On Jan 7, 2018, at 12:58 PM, steve farber email@hidden
wrote:Thats all fine and good but we, the loyal users who relied on Freeway
for our business can not afford to wait around for something that may or
may not ever come. And I disagree completely with Gordon. Freeway is
woefully inadequate in creating modern websites. When competing against
others using today’s software or coding, Freeway is a crippling handicap. I
have waited for well over a year. Without any updated info I am done. I
have a business to run too.
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Hey Frank stuff it.
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As someone who has worked with developers there’s no real point to monthly updates.
“I wrote some code. I had to do a few other jobs because writing code doesn’t bring in revenue in the meantime.”
I don’t really see how any details on the coding would help us and doing reports is just one more thing to do for the coders.
Given, that Softpress is probably a very small operation, the time to get notification is when he invites some long time users into an internal beta. And, those people will likely be under NDA unless and until there’s a public beta.
They’d have no reason to lie about continued development unless one though they were simply trying to milk a dead product with a few more sales of the current very old version under the reuse that a new version is coming. Personally I seriously doubt that’s the case.
Of course everyone is always free to move on to other software. As to “waiting,” some of us are still here because either the current version is still somewhat serviceable and/or thought that the features and functions were interesting enough to believe a new version would be equally useful. Heck, some can even go away and come back if/when the time comes and the new product is attractive enough.
Sure I’d like to know what’s up but if there’s silence for the time being I’ll assume there’s good cause. They haven’t pronounced they’ve given up and it costs me nothing in the meantime to keep using Freeway or… to move to another product either temporarily or long term.
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Now, now, Steve Farber, you did say “I’m done.” Your follow-up jibe against Frank implies you actually aren’t done. But broken promises aside, you need to do what is best for you and your business. And no manner of complaining in this thread will magically transform SoftPress. If you do actually wish to do something proactive, I would suggest you contact Richard Logan. He is the Big Cheese who runs the show in Oxford.
Andries, one cannot castigate SoftPress for “possibly” having a single senior engineer on a software rewrite when Blocs is written by one man, as are many other apps. Steve Wozniak was really the lone engineer who brought Apple from a hobby to a business, along with the sales governance and drive of Steve Jobs. Remember well that Woz and Jobs came down with Mono after working 4 straight days to build the first Apple I, and yet sickness did not halt the progression of their business.
And again, we don’t know how many engineers are hard at work on the next generation of Freeway. If you are concerned about this, and it’s clear you certainly must be concerned in light of how much time you’ve taken to post in this thread whilst having your own business to run, I can only suggest the same to you – contact Richard Logan. Perhaps he will offer you some interesting insider tidbits.
Does Freeway Pro 7 allow us to create “modern” websites? Well, if “modern” is defined as “fully responsive, with looks similar to Apple.com,” then the answer would be a resounding “no.” But if one wants to get a website online without caring too much about being perfectly responsive, then the existing product does work. I still use Freeway to change my existing sites, which admittedly are not responsive. That’s also why I have evaluated other options, should SoftPress ultimately not be able to deliver a SWIFT rewrite that also empowers us to create Responsive Websites with ease. Specifically, I have looked long and hard at Blocs. I’ve been participating in their Beta program too. I find that more fulfilling and potentially rewarding that merely complaining here about what Freeway currently cannot do or what it might not be able to deliver. I have been replying back to this thread time and time again to spar with complainers – but I do that for fun.
Am I an apologist for SoftPress? No. Admittedly, I did attend a couple Macworld Expos here in Japan many years ago when the company I worked for at the time sold the Japanese version, but that hasn’t been true in years. I am not an apologist but I am also not an antagonist. If anything, I have a love and admiration for Freeway and the people who develop it that has often resulted in my hotly criticizing Freeway in places where criticism is due and at times when I could see that my criticism would invoke change. So the reason I have not joined the chorus of voices body-slamming Freeway in this thread is obvious – I see no tangible benefit. But I will be honest with you. I would much rather see a new email in my mailbox from SoftPress announcing a new version of Freeway than another email telling me someone else has added a complaint to this thread.
–James Wages
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Steve,
I very much disagree. How about this site very, recently produced using Freeway and Perch CMS so the client can mange the site.
http://www.elitegoalkeepinguk.com
Freeway is a tool, knowing how to use it is the perennial issue with all these apps. The biggest (and best) investment was not the Freeway software, it was investing the time to be enquiring enough to learn how to make it a useful tool for a client by venturing into code (html, CSS, PHP).
The benefit of Freeway in its current state is that it’s open enough for you to mould a site into pretty much anything you can think of and still, just, keep it’s publishing base within a Freeway file and it’s resources files. You can quickly sketch up some responsive templates for approval then start replacing the guts with dynamic data all in the same file. Other web builders like Blocks you’d need to build a base to export out of the app as code.
As I see it, when responsive became a thing and Freeway moved to it. Freeway Pro became very much a “Pro” tool as they were the only group of users who fully understood it. Which is Freeway’s problem how to balance the needs the ordinary user (probably the larger base?) and a pro user (a reducing minority?). The Pro users will probably abandon to hand code in time.
–
David Owen
On 7 Jan 2018, at 20:58, steve farber email@hidden wrote:
Freeway is woefully inadequate in creating modern websites. When competing against others using today’s software or coding, Freeway is a crippling handicap.
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On 8 Jan 2018, at 1:43, cseeman wrote:
I don’t really see how any details on the coding would help us and
doing reports is just one more thing to do for the coders.
Exactly. As I have said when I was a developer - do you want be to do my
job or write reports about it?
Given, that Softpress is probably a very small operation, the time to
get notification is when he invites some long time users into an
internal beta. And, those people will likely be under NDA unless and
until there’s a public beta.
It is a very small operation. Especially now. From what I’ve read here
it now has zero paid employees, but they have more substance than a
one-man-band. Many products have one person subsidising another income
with any sales they can make, and who may give up or scale down if a
better main income turns up. Soft press has a driver, Richard Logan, and
a coder. The basic design principles are there for Freeway. Some of the
task will be a porting job, some will be a rework, but the ideas are
there and known to work.
If your business is designing non-trivial website after non-trivial
website then I can understand moving away from FW; but not everyone does
that. I use it for generating the framework for php generated php/mysql
stuff, occasionally. Well worth my while owning because it does the
stuff that would hold back what I am trying to do, if I had to do that
bit myself. Because of its ease of use I would expect a good proportion
of previous purchasers would be low-level users like me (not that it
couldn’t do what used to be complicated stuff). We are hanging on.
David
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James, My "jibe’ (whatever that is) against Frank?? He is the one that wrote that against me. I only returned fire. If he doesn’t want to read this thread, he is more than able to turn it off. If he doesn’t think I have the right to express my opinion, then I stand by my comment. And by the way, I am not interested in “just getting a website online without caring too much”. Neither are my customers.
As an explanation of what “I’m done” meant: I am done waiting. I have moved on to Muse and have been very happy with it. That doesn’t mean I have to ignore what is (or isn’t) happening with Freeway. I, too, have used it for years and would love to see a new version that competes. I only express my frustration because it hasn’t happened and we’re in the dark about it while business life goes on each day. So I will still pay attention to this board and if/when we see another Freeway product I will likely give it a look.
Just as a reminder, back on Dec 5th, I didn’t start my comments with some slamming insults about freeway or its authors. I simply posted my recommendations about Muse for those who, like me, were in need of an alternative while the web design world passed us by like we were standing still.
David, your site is very nice! But you are admittedly one who codes in addition to Freeway. That is not my case, nor is it the purpose Freeway was intended for (or why most of us wound up here).
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I became a Freeway user back in 1999 when it was at version 2 and advertised as, “For those who don’t see the world as code.“ I still don’t see the world is code, even though I sometimes program microcontrollers in assembly. I like a WYSIWYG GUI. Freeway gives me that GUI for legacy web layouts but not for Responsive designs. I’ve taken a lot of heat from the “pros“ here on FreewayTalk for daring to ask for an easier means of creating a responsive website in Freeway. That’s still what I’m looking for; and no, I don’t mean a “template based” web design tool either.
I would like to move my existing corporate sites to a responsive design sometime this year. Whether that happens in Freeway or not will depend on the release of the new version of Freeway. If Softpress once again falters or otherwise does not produce a product this year, then I may decide to go with Blocs, especially if they add a responsive table feature for tabular data, along with an easy means of adding a site wide search feature like Google Custom Search.
I remain loyal to Freeway for now. But I’m itching to do something that’s fully responsive, yet which maintains all of the features and tabular data that my existing Freeway sites presently offer.
James Wages
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Steve
The specific purpose of the Freeway (Pro) extended pallets and the ability of creating your own CSS is specifically provided to add your own custom code. This is what it’s indented for in this “Pro” version. Ignoring this, does not make is go away. Any web design app that doesn’t have this flexibility, you will be painting yourself into a corner at some point down the line as the developer makes decisions for you about what you can or can’t do.
There’s so much to understand about building sites and so much low hanging fruit hidden in plain sight. Even for the beginner.
Take your average Freeway site. Some Basics, check if it’s using structured content like using H1, H2 etc.? (look at the Freeway Manual page 156). And Google about the importance of a H1. Go on check your site. At least learn how can you can check it.
It saddens me when there’s no acceptance that understanding the basics of html is a benefit to your site. Time and again this forum is looking for a quick fix no code solution. I’d like to think me banging on about this might stir the enquiring mind and what grabbed my interest. And perhaps carry a little weight that a “no code understanding” is a bad idea as a career move.
I started from the visual design side, no code understanding, something like year 1999 “ish". Over time is was very apparent you either learn more or die. The learning process is still ongoing.
Sorry I’ll stop going on now.
–
David Owen
On 8 Jan 2018, at 13:08, steve farber email@hidden wrote:
That is not my case, nor is it the purpose Freeway was intended for
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I agree that a developer must develop and not ‘waist’ his time with reports
about the ongoing process. But hey, there will be a person to tell us when
the rebirth will happen and that it can be bought I may assume, Even a
longlasting doubtful product like The Grid does regular updates just to
keep attention from its funders and potential users. Its their investment
in the future and customers. Telling nothing will soon loose your
supporters.
I really like Softpress/FW. I would like to keep the company sunny, warm
and dry, but only if they won’t let me stand in the cold silent night…
2018-01-08 16:58 GMT+01:00 David Owen email@hidden:
Steve
The specific purpose of the Freeway (Pro) extended pallets and the ability
of creating your own CSS is specifically provided to add your own custom
code. This is what it’s indented for in this “Pro” version. Ignoring this,
does not make is go away. Any web design app that doesn’t have this
flexibility, you will be painting yourself into a corner at some point down
the line as the developer makes decisions for you about what you can or
can’t do.There’s so much to understand about building sites and so much low hanging
fruit hidden in plain sight. Even for the beginner.Take your average Freeway site. Some Basics, check if it’s using
structured content like using H1, H2 etc.? (look at the Freeway Manual page
156). And Google about the importance of a H1. Go on check your site. At
least learn how can you can check it.It saddens me when there’s no acceptance that understanding the basics of
html is a benefit to your site. Time and again this forum is looking for a
quick fix no code solution. I’d like to think me banging on about this
might stir the enquiring mind and what grabbed my interest. And perhaps
carry a little weight that a “no code understanding” is a bad idea as a
career move.I started from the visual design side, no code understanding, something
like year 1999 “ish". Over time is was very apparent you either learn more
or die. The learning process is still ongoing.Sorry I’ll stop going on now.
–
David Owen
http://www.davidowendesign.comOn 8 Jan 2018, at 13:08, steve farber email@hidden
wrote:That is not my case, nor is it the purpose Freeway was intended for
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