[Pro] Left & Right Col Key Elements?

Legacy Tutorials
1

What are the KRY required inspector changes for the flexible at 320 and 480 that made it possible for it to function as it does at that LINK.
I no longer have that active on my computer andI am working with later versions but cannot get the flow to occur. Every time I change one setting something else does’t work. If I grasp it correctly it is the settings OF the left and right column inspector that control how the right col page elements slide over and under left column items.
The above URL works, but a complete rebuild (twice) gets corrupted at that point. There may be a connectivity interplay that I do not realize???

http://caman89.home.comcast.net/~caman89/

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2

What are the KRY required inspector changes for the flexible at 320 and 480 that made it possible for it to function as it does at that LINK.

Float settings.

At greater widths it is fine to have the left col float left and the right col float right but at narrower widths you may have to float them both left - you also may have to adjust clears from ‘none’ to ‘both’.

Make sure that your wrapper heights are flexible too.

David

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3

thanks… looks partially done… But how to get 320 size to keep image no smaller than at 480 setting? and move the right col text UNDER the left col? Or at 320 part of text to right of image in left col and remainder of text IN right col spread full width below the left col image?? or all text to shift under 320 image or/and? at 480??

its posted to the same link just before writing this

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4

You have to adjust the column widths at the different sizes ie at the moment leftcol is 45% wide at 320 - you should make it 95%.

At the same time change the width of rightcol to 95% at 320 and instead of Float: Right make it Float: Left

You have also set a percentage height to the #MarqueSign1 image of 58% - it shouldn’t have a height set, it should be Flexible.

But make adjustments at each size starting at the biggest working down to the smallest - it will make it easier to follow changes.

What happened to your 768 Breakpoint settings - there don’t appear to be any?

D

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5

Made changes as suggested except for 768 settings. {No 768 in this file. Prior one messed up. This is new one with color background in each container. Most changed to none before upload as it was confusing.} (If items are flexible why do we need changes in 768?

320 settings now DIFFERENT visual results in Browser vs Pro. VIEW IN BROWSER shows 320 text beside the image. ALSO ON FTP UPLOAD.
however SELECTING
PREVIEW of 320 in Pro shows the right col text below the left col image separated by a large vacant space that is the color of the MainWrap??

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6

CAUGHT IN A LOOP… help
every time I insert an html item in a left col container in the main wrapper FW7 creates a new page TITLED the image.png name… which has been successfully brought in as a pass thru graphic into a html box inside a container in previous versions. I’ve closed out and restarted FW and no change.

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7

Ignore my last post. Found the solution… Apparently I needed to add another HTML item into the first HTML item previously added in the Right Col container… At least doing so it worked okay…

For any who wish to see the benefits of placing colors in the containers and pages the files being worked on will be at this link

(am working from several different versions, testing this and that; so it will vary from day to day)
http://caman89.home.comcast.net/~caman89/

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8

Well, my working tutorial is now active for a friends web site at

still discovering ‘responsive’ terms and aspects.

I had to postpone using Backdraft due to my confusion over terminology and meanings that I still seem to miss …that apparently are obvious to those who have used this process for a considerable learning curve.

Will get back to Backdraft soon as I see its potential, just haven’t grasped some major difference, likely in terminology.
Thanks for the help…

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9

Seems to me we need a TUTORIAL based on a different approach… one that defines and illustrates fundamentals, like margins, paddings in the several ways they are applied - why, how and result.

Needs to show and explain basic processes in the interplay between right and left columns consistently across all site widths.

At times FW browser results do NOT confirm what appears with the same page/item/setting IN Pro page and preview. This is likely tied to settings (and content) in subtle ways that we can learn to comprehend from a relation perspective not covered in current tutorials.

As a logical thinker - without inner images (instead of one who sees images) - it is essential to understood the inter-relationships. When asked the pro’s will (very helpfully) answer with a to do this or that, which is appreciated.

I suggest a tutorial from a different perspective to compare and apply so it is possible to UNDERSTAND basic RELATIONSHIPS - and the EFFECTS of altering them within the parameters of FWPro 7. To me that is a fundamental structural understanding that can empower more new users of FW7. This is different from a ‘here’s how to build a site tutorial’. It’s can be a key reference on relationships and results.

It can be a reference guide with illustrations for comparisons IN ADDITION TO present ones showing how to do this or that in a site building process. Those tutorials lack the connectivity of the various fundamentals, such as the interactivity of margins, padding, centering, etc. etc.

Anyone interested in this?

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10

I hear your pain Ann and am with you all the way.

I am just about to embark on the trepidatious task of converting my site to responsive and will need all the help I can get!

Here’s hoping our pleas don’t go unnoticed.

David

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11

I’m in the process of building the infrastructure for a
tutorial/community site so if someone wants to produce the tutorials …
get in touch.

Todd http://xiiro.com | http://squind.us

On 2014-11-12 03:25, Ann Amber wrote:

Seems to me we need a TUTORIAL based on a different approach… one
that defines and illustrates fundamentals, like margins, paddings in
the several ways they are applied - why, how and result.

Needs to show and explain basic processes in the interplay between
right and left columns consistently across all site widths.

At times FW browser results do NOT confirm what appears with the same
page/item/setting IN Pro page and preview. This is likely tied to
settings (and content) in subtle ways that we can learn to comprehend
from a relation perspective not covered in current tutorials.

As a logical thinker - without inner images (instead of one who sees
images) - it is essential to understood the inter-relationships. When
asked the pro’s will (very helpfully) answer with a to do this or
that, which is appreciated.

I suggest a tutorial from a different perspective to compare and apply
so it is possible to UNDERSTAND basic RELATIONSHIPS - and the EFFECTS
of altering them within the parameters of FWPro 7. To me that is a
fundamental structural understanding that can empower more new users
of FW7. This is different from a ‘here’s how to build a site
tutorial’. It’s can be a key reference on relationships and results.

It can be a reference guide with illustrations for comparisons IN
ADDITION TO present ones showing how to do this or that in a site
building process. Those tutorials lack the connectivity of the various
fundamentals, such as the interactivity of margins, padding,
centering, etc. etc.

Anyone interested in this?

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12

Thanks for the replies. Let’s Begin.
Thomas… I appreciate your response and your articles, some of which I’ve read and gotten completely lost in… Why? because it is advanced in wordology…you are so innately familiar with the topic that essential connections are missing. It’s NOT a criticism, just an essential fact going back to blacksmiths training a beginner how to temper metal.

An example in another field was a college prof in a calculus class. At the end of the first semester only 20% ‘got it’…80% were ‘lost’. Next semester another prof came in and started with a ham sandwich, and tied it into calculus and we got it as word combinations communicated in a different way. That is what I stress here… no criticism.

No existing tutorial or videos approach it from THIS perspective - in each case the connections are missing. I’ve watched every FW tutorial several times going back to 5; printed out and enlarged for easy reading; but the essentials of connectivity (basic understandings) are missing. I KNOW we can create what is needed and propose to do it. So Lets start with margins. Where shall we begin this collaboration process??? WHERE
Here or ???. I agree to be the spark and start the tutorial in this way.

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13

On 12 Nov 2014, 1:38 pm, Thomas Kimmich wrote:

This is not to be seen as advertising.

Cheers

Thomas

I want to make it clear that we do not have any problem with members of this list advertising their services to other members.

There is a fair-sized community of people who have bought Freeway, started to build something ambitious (whether for themselves or a client) and then found themselves way outside of their comfort zone.

I know I am not alone in having been contacted by those people from time to time over the years, and having many mutually-profitable engagements with them. If I had not periodically thumped my chest about my code-fu, there would have been no such calls, and my mortgage would be in arrears.

What we do have a HUGE problem with is brand-new members posting links to their paid whatever as their first post. That gets the ban-hammer out really quickly, and you will never hear from them again.

However virtual, this is a real community, full of helpful people and people who need help. Sometimes that help is free, but that does not guarantee that it always will (or should) be so. If you are doing client work with Freeway, and you need the latest hotness to work in a hurry, there is a commercial decision to make (and you alone can make it for yourself): do I spend the nights and weekends understanding WHY this works in general, and HOW to do it in Freeway, or do I pay some person who already invested that time to do it for me?

In the case of Thomas’s screencasts, he has distilled hundreds or thousands of hours of deep-diving into bite-sized and learnable morsels, well worth the price he charges. If it gets your paid work done, then think of it as an investment in your future.

Walter

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14

This is a screenshot of the welcome-screen of my “The Lounge” BoxModel episode:

The Freeway Box-in-Box ModelPro V6.x – #005 – Padding and Margin

While padding is the inner distance of a box, margin is the outer one. Margin only works by placing boxes inline.

It is redundant if you do traditional drag and drop Freeway like placing method:

What articles did you read and what episodes did you watch?

Cheers

Thomas

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15

Hi Walter,

I thank you for your honest and open words - it feels good.

But there are specific reasons why I act pretty careful with my stuff. Let me quote only two (of several examples) and experiences of the past:

So in all fairness just mention it as maybe a possible solution but not explaining it (or send me to a free of charge video tutorial in stead of people who send me to a paid site to get the information !) you should not be surprised that I don’t understand it, nobody can!

and

My suggestion that a paid service be mentioned at the start is proper. In close to five years years on Freeway forums (and years as sysop on an Adobe forum), this is the first time I’ve encountered a commercially-oriented post that did not mention the commercial nature in the post.

It’s not only time, it’s even money we spent for the community (and I know you did, too - or even still do) for hosting and software.

Cheers

Thomas

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16

Being Pro’s and volunteering skills sometimes creates strange situations. Yet it can lead to interesting relationships and one’s own inner growth.

When I offered to help with the tutorial it was based on having done that as an unpaid volunteer (16 years: often 50+ hrs/wk) with a state agency. The difference is perspective. It is hard for a technical oriented person, especially if one is an imager, to communicate so that new users grasp essential connectivity ‘links’ that are within the experts experience and have become subliminal.

A concern on margins can arise in FW. It is possible for both Page and Preview to show that right column changes for 320 are successful. Yet Firefox or Safari may NOT show success - instead a different layout obviously tied so something else, but what? Can it be an area where FWPro has problem or is it due to the Browser limitations? Seems I recall one post somewhere about some limitation there.

Yes there are tutorials. There is a stack a foot thick on the desk, but fumbling through them to find CONNECTIVITY that is missing is why a lay person’s tutorial IS ESSENTIAL. As a non-code person I offer a different perspective to aid those who will never study code.

As a non-code person I offer a different perspective. The intent is to aid those who will never study code. Input from the Pros is vital also. Where can we start the process. We need a hub or ??? where multiple inputs can occur, into side rooms or area, with an ongoing central document in the process of emerging… Anyone know of such a web site?

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17

Example: Thomas wrote
"The Freeway Box-in-Box ModelPro V6.x – #005 – Padding and Margin

While padding is the inner distance of a box, margin is the outer one. Margin only works by placing boxes inline.

It is redundant if you do traditional drag and drop Freeway like placing method:

The term “boxes” is used in several ways/combinations. As writer you know what you mean. But the reader may not, or may have confusion over box this versus box that… in line, off line, outline, whatever.

This is where ALL tutorials need help. Also, there is talk on this topic going back into FW5, maybe earlier. How can a new user to know WHAT is valid and different in 7!! It is essential to communicate… I know everyone IS doing it the way YOU think is working (it does for you)…but that does not mean it is UNDERSTOOD by the receiver… it’s that link I hope we can establish… we can!!

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18

The term “boxes” is used in several ways/combinations.

Yep I agree - my mistake:

So let’s define it:

In Freeway it’s called “HTML-item”. This is the green rectangle where content such as text can be placed in.

The problem is, that the browser is handling this as DIV. Unfortunately this is a matter of fact. So if you never think about code, it’ll be for the rest of your life a “HTML-item”.

So far so good:

There are two methods how to place a “HTML-item (I’d prefer the term DIV)”.

Method one:

Nothing selected on your page, you’d chose “insert” → HTML-item from the context menu. If you now have a deeper look into inspectors first tab, you probably recognize the term “absolute”. You did it - an absolute positioned HTML-item.

Method two:

Double-click into your page (or a HTML-item) so you see the flushing cursor mark. While this is flushing, chose “insert” → HTML-item from the context menu (as above).

Once done - try to drag it around - it should fail. Conclusion:

Positioned (placed) relative.

Am I now the first one ever writing this?

Not that I’m aware of. It has been written thousands of times the last past 5 years by different authors - ever and ever again.

WebDesign these days requires more than just a “technical how to use an application” - it requires a plan off Freeway.

Cheers

Thomas

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19

This is why I applaud Thomas’ screencast efforts, as there are some things
(cover your ears, Walter) that text cannot convey.

There are things I’d like to show people, but I’m stuck with telling them
instead. So, if you discover a better way and think someone should do
something about it, then become the solution you desire.

And PS, I don’t think Softpress invented the Box-Model (or whatever) method

  • they hardly even acknowledge it. I think users stumbled onto the ability
    to use Freeway this way and Softpress didn’t do anything to discourage it.
    So, what it is called and how it is done has been without formalized
    direction for years now. And as someone who has invented so many ways to
    use Freeway this way, I don’t mind sharing - but these are techniques that
    do not exist in any imagined guides, let alone actual ones.

I am also compelled to admit that while I like to share what I’ve learned,
there is a limit to how much nonsense I will tolerate from the climbers
below me who think I’m not doing things right or not doing enough to haul
their asses up the hill.

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20

Thanks Thomas. To review:
TERMINOLOGY:
Boxes, containers, div or html items are the various names for the flexibility onscreen results IN FWPro7.01
That software uses containers or HTML items, to be ‘flexible’.There is a basic ‘container’ and it’s later 'insert (BOTH are an 'html-item in a technical sense.)
When done correctly the site can display different arrangements at different PAGE WIDTHS on the type device a user has to view it.
There can be more than one html-insert in the basic html container or box.
Example: Main Wrapper; Left Col container can contain a Map, Photo and Text in combinations
The Right Col container will have html inserts text or pass-thru graphic
With correct inspector settings the two columns will ‘fold’ (self coordinate) as will be appropriate for narrow page setting such as 320 and 480 and so reflect in FW preview and in the browser

INSERTION IN a CONTAINER
Method One iin your reply: I was unable to find a CONTEXT menu with 'ABSOLUTE" in FwPro7.01
Method Two: INSERT menu is what I use normally. That new html item (box?,div or?) can be enlarged in 2 directions, while placement up/down seems limited, unless the container is resized. Your memo called it “positioned (placed) relative” and indicated it should fail. WHY?
Isn’t that the very purpose of its placement? to be relative to something else? If not what is the point?? Why should it fail?
And if/when it does what is the workaround so it does not ‘fail’?
===++++++++++++

Ernie: Thanks.
In helping people, adding screen shots {of the inspector and the site column with the area under discussion} significantly augments text. and helps people understand. My 30+ page web site dedicated to that principle is at www.changingchange.info but was designed for full width browsers. Maybe some day it can be changed, but it will be a future task.
+++++++++++++++
My hope is we can create a new guide with indexed content for those who do not have interest to use ‘code’. I realize that may be a challenge to those experienced with it, but like all new aspects it has its benefits and non benefits. I offered to be the point person but will need help to do so. Questions like mine may be simplistic to you and Thomas with long experience, but basics are essential and your help IS appreciated.

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