[Pro] Should I stop being so persnickety?

Freeway
1

There have been a couple of threads lately where I’ve been sticking my nose in, and reading them and contemplating my use of FW, I’m coming to doubt, or at least wonder about, my working methods.

It seems many, if not most, of my problems with FW have been caused by my trying to hard to make it work exactly like my old XPress and InDesign.

Now, I still think there’s a happier medium to be found between some aspects of the print typography and the web than are presented by FW. But in my case, they’re kind of niggly.

Leaving aside the question of being able to globally control these niggly things in FW, all of FW’s code always validates. All of the Actions work. FW bangs out some web sites in jig time.

And given the technological state of the web, especially compared to the old dial-up days, is it wise to be worried about “clean, efficient code”? I look at sites like the New York Times or Salon, and their d*mn CSS menus break when I enlarge the text enough for my old eyes.

And given that all the tricks I agonize over today are probably going to be irrelevant in a year…well. I looked at the Webalizer stats for a client’s site a few days ago. Want to guess what were the top three browsers visiting the site in April?

MSIE 8. MSIE 8. MSIE 8. In different flavors of Windows. Over 50% of the visits were MSIE EIGHT.

I mean, that floored me. MSIE 6 was on there, at something like 1%. MSIE 7 was in there with more or less current versions of Safari, Firefox and Chrome. Oh, and a few Opera.

So what the heck? Broadband speeds, pretty much compliant browsers, ever changing standards, should I just stop worrying and learn to love the bomb? Because so far, FW is the bomb.

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2

On May 5, 2010, at 6:54 PM, Bucky Edgett wrote:

And given the technological state of the web, especially compared to
the old dial-up days, is it wise to be worried about “clean,
efficient code”?

I think keeping such things in mind is a good habit to develop no
matter how fast ISPs or computers get, though how far you choose to
take it is another matter entirely. Many designers/developers still
consider such things very important for other reasons too, and
depending on project and/or client requirements it may even be
expected. There’s nothing wrong with ensuring that the underlying code-
base is reasonably clean and efficient just like the layout. Of
course, this is coming from a coder.

Todd

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3

OK, great.

  1. What might be "other reasons’?

  2. If I let FW do all the work, including temp styles applied as spans and so forth, is the result “reasonably clean and efficient”?

Seems to me to be a fast render, even given my ancient connection methods.

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4

You’ve sussed the real advantage of Freeway - with minimum effort you
can produce a web site that works well in most situations. That’s the
way I started and the basis of my workflow, still. However, I have
also learned to understand code, to work with and adjust both HTML and
PHP snippets that add those extra touches to make a site more flexible
in use or bring in elements not native to FW, often with the help of
third party Actions.

The important bit, here, has been the understanding of how different
design and functional requirements are met, whether within FW or
through additional resources. Much of that knowledge has been picked
up from, or inspired by, threads on FWTalk. The difference helps you
stand apart from the “template adjusters” and can bring more
individuality to your web site, help you compete with “the big boys”
and marks you out as someone that takes extra care in what you do.

Importantly, it all brings greater satisfaction in what you create.
I’m at the opposite end of the career spectrum to you, Bucky,
currently working on what will likely be my last 2 or 3 commercial
sites, before I close the doors on 50 years of businessm in which
working with FW has been one of the more enjoyable periods of time.
With the encouragement of mentors from FWTalk, which I shall still dip
into from time to time, my private work will still include some web
design and I may (and this is for Todd) actually get around to
learning PHP properly, rather than tinkering at the edges.

In short, don’t be afraid to let loose onto the world wide web a plain
vanilla FW site, when that’s all that may be needed. It is the content
that is the most important element and not being 100% code pure will
make little difference to its ‘productivity’. However, the more you
learn, the more sophisticated and productive your web sites will become.

Colin

On 6 May 2010, at 05:45, Bucky Edgett wrote:

  1. What might be "other reasons’?

  2. If I let FW do all the work, including temp styles applied as
    spans and so forth, is the result “reasonably clean and efficient”?

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5

On May 5, 2010, at 11:45 PM, Bucky Edgett wrote:

  1. What might be "other reasons’?

  2. If I let FW do all the work, including temp styles applied as
    spans and so forth, is the result “reasonably clean and efficient”?

  1. Sometimes more demanding or knowledgeable clients expect lean code
    for practical reasons like rendering times, SEO friendliness or
    perhaps because they simply don’t want bloated code because they
    consider it a sign of a lazy or sub-par designer. I have to varying
    degrees encountered similar scenarios when looking for work.

I’ll admit that this type of situation is probably rare for the
average FW user but if you’re competing for corporate-level work
(freelance or otherwise) chances are that being able to produce lean
and efficient code is pretty high on most employers lists of skills,
whether you can actually write code or not. But again the question is:
What constitutes “efficient code”?

And sometimes it’s simply a matter of pride of craftsmanship. The code
is obviously a key part of any site (whether made with FW or not) and
some designers would no more deliver bloated code than they would a
layout that breaks when the text is increased one notch. It depends on
the type of client/work you’re after and your own ideas/opinions as to
whether such things are worth your consideration or not.

  1. FW does an admirable job of generating reasonably clean code but
    (and I have personal experience in this regard from potential
    employers) it does not always hold up to scrutiny. Span styles and
    such are not bad and they do have their place, certainly, as does
    inline CSS but I actively avoid the latter, as do many people. Is
    inline CSS terrible? Or tables? No, it’s all perfectly legitimate. But
    in certain circles such things are, again, perceived as lazy or sub-
    par and perceptions are a bear to overcome sometimes. And it doesn’t
    stop with CSS, some feel that js should also be in external files, not
    in the html. It goes on and on.

In the end, if the site functions does the underlying code matter? For
me it does, both because of pride in my work and because I need to
remain competitive against other coders. Like I said, I think it’s a
generally good idea to keep in mind but don’t go overboard with trying
to implement it to the nth degree.

Todd

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6

OK, both these very thoughtful replies are confirming my suspicions. I’m not likely --at least in the near future-- to encounter any clients who are code freaks.

I’ve been, and still am, a bit of one, mostly for the “pride of craftsmanship” mentioned above. And I guess because I started building web sites writing the code by hand in BBEdit! Always ever after feeling I need to know how it works.

Thanks, fellows, for taking the time for this great analysis. I’m reassured!

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