I’ve frequently used Freeway Pro to mock-up concepts with great success. FP’s limitations begin to show through when a CMS is involved.
I’d like to create a more sophisticated demo/proof-of-concept piece that incorporates a CMS. The rub is I’m a pure hack when it comes to PHP, JAVA, and even HTML, hence my admiration for Freeway Pro. So, the question becomes, is there something a bit more powerful than WebYep that plays well with FP? Alternatively, has anyone had any good experiences with some of the new CMS/Web Design tools that can be (relatively) easily learned?
Thanks for your thoughts and comments.
Robert
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“bit more” powerful — One of the features I’d like to highlight in a proof-of-concept piece is dynamic interaction with the user. In this case, the user selects a set of options (or none at all) and the content delivered to the screen (appropriate text, audio, video) is based on those selections. This is more interactive than I believe WebYep can handle. I’d rather not simply build dummy interactions as I have a ton of easily installed content from which to draw.
“relatively easy” — Yeh, I knew that was a stupid way of putting it when I hit “send.”
I’ve never bothered to learn hard-core languages because of my work history. I tend toward management of projects and am happy to hire the incredible skills of code poets. To me, “relatively easy” in terms of a CMS would equate it to Freeway Pro. While there are many easier tools out there with which one can build a website than FP, there are also tons more difficult. I understand the tradeoffs one needs to address when using WYSIWYG tools. While FP is fantastic, I don’t know that it has ever really measured up 100% to the pitch of letting it handle “the code.” To get something relatively sophisticated done with FP, one does need to know the basics of HTML and other applicable languages and SQL databases. That said, FP beats the pants off of hand-coding a site from scratch.
With the flurry of WYSIWYG web design tools all touting ease of use with “complete flexibility” in design, I’ve also noticed quite a buzz in the world of CMSs. It seems that many have blurred the line between web design and CMS tool. At the highest end of the scale one finds tools like eZ Publisher. Clearly it will do everything one could ever imagine and then some. Even for their “tiny” Silver edition, $12,900 is tough to justify for a demo piece (plus it comes with a serious learning curve). At the low end, WebYep serves its purpose but not, I’m thinking, in this case.
MODX may be a good fit and is sitting in my “to be reviewed” folder, as is your tutorial. If I use FP 7, I’d like the CMS to essentially be on par in terms of ease of use, hence my phraseology “relatively easy.” Alternatively, if there is a good integrated CMS/WYSIWYG web tool out there, I’d be willing to give it a serious try, as long as it isn’t hog-tied by templates (e.g. Joomla et al).
Again, thanks…
Robert
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There are numerous CMS that I have personally used and like and have recommended for a variety of reasons (concrete5, MODX, Perch and about a half dozen more, some of them very slick). But as is often the case with even moderately full-featured CMS they will require code tinkering. That’s often the price you pay for flexibility, features and/or power.
My best advice is download and install a few that look interesting, that’s really the only honest way to get a sense of what you like and don’t. If you decide to try MODX I will attempt to help if/when I can but as I stated in the tutorial, FW presents some frustrating and unnecessary hurdles.
As you alluded to in your previous post often times the biggest hurdle isn’t the CMS, or even getting to grips with the technical aspects of the system, it’s Freeway itself. Sadly the biggest headache is trying to overcome FW’s rigid way of doing things.
I’m actually preparing to “jump in” to reviewing MODX, EE, and Craft. Todd, if I wind up using MODX, I will likely take you up on your kind offer (and fully understand the “if/when” part). Richard, I noticed the action suite for EE but wondered about a couple of posts there as well. Is it usable with FP7 and if so, is it worth it (unanswered questions dating from last year). Do you have any direct experience with Joe’s actions?
Todd, you point about FW’s “rigid way of doing things” is not at all lost on me. If been experimenting with Tumult’s Hype which may provide a better platform for a proof-of-concept (operative word being ‘may’) in this case. Richard, with regard to WordPress (and Joomla / Droopla for that matter), my understanding is that Hype doesn’t play well with it.
Many thanks,
Robert
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If providing your clients with a truly bespoke editing experience is important then MODX is near the top of the pile in that regard. The level of customization is stunning. Those who claim it’s too complicated for tech-challenged clients have probably never used it. For one client I stripped down the admin area UI so much that the Pulse UI looked cluttered by comparison.
proof-of-concept piece is dynamic interaction with the user. In this case, the user selects a set of options (or none at all) and the content delivered to the screen (appropriate text, audio, video) is based on those selections.
Actually WebYep can do this.
I built an example within freeway and using WebYep which was based around a user choosing a set of predefined parameters via checkboxes and the information presented reflected the users choices and if they filtered again then the information refreshed and showed the new choices.
I am not saying WebYep is the correct choice for you, but I think people fall into the trap of thinking WY is just a simple text editor and in reality it can do a huge amount more.
I’m still a big fan of Perch despite the somewhat backhanded compliments in my review of it (see CREATiv). I still consider it among a handful of go-to CMS (inc. conctete5 and MODX among others) when starting new projects. Besides, I still have clients that use it. I have yet to try the new Perch Runway version so perhaps I might find it a better fit for some projects.
But I must confess the flexibility of MODX has proven quite addictive for a much broader range of projects than I initially thought possible. I have a former Perch client (who is tech-challenged) that moved to MODX and finds it easier and nicer to use. Go figure.
But yes, I still like, use and recommend Perch to designers and clients, with the caveat that it’s probably not the best choice for designers with very little tolerance for code tinkering. In that regard Perch can sometimes be a real pain.
Something else I failed to mention which admittedly might sometimes skew me towards MODX is that I’ve invested a fair amount of time helping plugin devs. One area in particular which has completely and utterly altered my perception of CMS functionality is how Rich Text Editors and 3rd Party file/media browsers can (and should) integrate with a CMS, both on the back- and front-end.
Tremendous progress has been made recently in this area, and in a very brief span of time. I find when using other systems that don’t offer a similar degree of RTE/file manager features and/or customization I often feel severely hobbled. Like I’m being forced to use stone tools.
Todd, in the past you’ve been working with [Perch CMS](https://grabaperch.comhttps://grabaperch.com/) as well … is this something you’d still consider or have you switched to MODX all together?
Evolution is still actively supported by the community but not in any official capacity by the core development team, as I understand it. Besides, Evo does not have any of the newer features of Revo. Also, Revo is a more secure platform.
Revo is on a development fast-track to v3.0 (at which point the “Revolution” moniker will be dropped).
You may also want to look into their MODX Cloud service. You can use it for free and it greatly simplifies the installation and upgrade process to a few clicks which makes it tremendously useful for development/deployment or in your case, taking it out for a test-run.
Webyep is good and you can combine php to all sorts of cleverness. However I would highly recommend Perch CMS as this really lift the things you can do like Blog, events, galleries, client logins, and more. Mix in some php to push it further.
David
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On 15 Sep 2015, at 16:04, Todd email@hidden wrote:
I’m still a big fan of Perch despite the somewhat backhanded compliments in my review of it (see CREATiv)
I have something entirely unimportant to say regarding CMS (and I should perhaps open a new thread for it):
####Avoid it the best you can!
Content Management Systems are required, when content isn’t managed in time - trying to solve this issue later. Some would say: “The expected Mess”.
To avoid CMS, you need to strengthen your outline - the story you write for your client (or yourself). Believe it or not, this reduces the need of later “adjustments” to a min and even the smaller things are quicker adjusted by the WebDesigner rather leaving it by client.
“Sine qua non” is a well organized WebDesigner knows what he is doing! I’m trying to sell this by a fixed fee per year - and 100% are taking it. I naturally can estimate the things - and my FreewayDoc is (unlike the past) slim and fast. This is making me incredible fast and flexible - so adjustments are no pain in but - it’s simply a pleasure.
But I agree that there are as well the clients who really are in need of a CMS.
Serving those by thePerchs (as a representative of all smaller ones) is not worth to think about. Those clients don’t need a “Designer” - those need techsavy geeks and nerds putting up a system. And if so - the choice can only be one of the big five (or four or six). Or in simple words: Function first - a lil bit of decoration goes alongside. I know not much of this audience having the opportunity ever getting such a client, nor do I know much being able to serve them.
Provoking? You know me - I love doing so !
And am curious about the arguments against. Such as those typical restaurant-clients in need of changing their bill of fare weekly …
Cheers
Thomas
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