Upgrading to FW7 questions

I have been considering upgrading to FW7 since it was announced but have held off to see how it is developing and what issues there are.

In the past I have upgraded from 5 to 5.5 to 6, and each time there has been more of a learning curve than I would have liked.

I am really interested in the responsive side of FW7, but I am finding it hard to understand what it can and can’t do. There only appears to be 3 example sites on the main FW7 page, so finding Made with FW7 is difficult.

I am keen to create a site that is visually and functionally similar to www.seesense.co (I don’t need the purchase function).

Can anyone tell me if FW7 can create a site similar to seesense.co, without needing templates of any hand coding?


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Hi spidercrab.

The learning curve is very steep from FW6 to FW7 as I face in these weeks, but worth while for professionals. Workflows are different and for 1 website you will need much, much more time because of the different settings and adjustments in the various media width tabs. You will think more in % as in pixel for instance. A huge change.

I have bought FW7 templates in the first place, which helped me very much to understand workflows and constructions.

After a very quick look at your example I would say the basic idea behind the site is generally possible in FW7. Except the gallery at HOME and the BLOG. The Menu cannot be made with the css-menu action. Perhaps there is more I have overlooked.

It seems that this website is made with WordPress a completely other approach to web design. Sometimes quicker in set up, but not as flexible in individual design as we are in FW.

Hope this helps.
Hanna


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A site like www.seesense.co can easily be created with Freeway7, but it depends how much you really know about (or are comfortable with) Freeway’s possibilities and how to work with inline box model layouts.

The parallax part sadly is not yet within Freeway’s wysiwyg. However … parallax is possible to integrate purely via CSS (take a look at http://keithclark.co.uk/articles/pure-css-parallax-websites/ for details). Sites like these can be build without having to rely on 3rd party software, but you will need to do get under the hood every now and then for some screwdriver work.

I’d very much like Freeway7.5 to be more focussed on the missing or (nowadays) inadequate tools.


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Its indeed a WP theme:

<!

I also encounter more steeps with FW7. I use FWpro since version 3 and it
always fits me like a tailormade suite. But now, this ‘non-coding’ piece of
software, becomes more and more a struggle to get even, in my believe,
relative simple tasks fast done. Only when adding extra code it seems to
work as expect. Most of the really helpful answers in FW talk is to add
extra code.

Compared with easy websitebuilders as Webydo or plugins like Live Composer
(WP), Softpress should not lose users because of a lack of helpful tuts.
Even young Muse (Adobe) is ranking stars, If that program becomes truely
responsive, I think Softpress will have a big competitor to challenge.

I really doubt to invest more time in Freeway or to switch for more
designing and less struggling with codes.

2014-11-25 15:48 GMT+01:00 spidercrab email@hidden:

I have been considering upgrading to FW7 since it was announced but have
held off to see how it is developing and what issues there are.

In the past I have upgraded from 5 to 5.5 to 6, and each time there has
been more of a learning curve than I would have liked.

I am really interested in the responsive side of FW7, but I am finding it
hard to understand what it can and can’t do. There only appears to be 3
example sites on the main FW7 page, so finding Made with FW7 is difficult.

I am keen to create a site that is visually and functionally similar to
www.seesense.co (I don’t need the purchase function).

Can anyone tell me if FW7 can create a site similar to seesense.co,
without needing templates of any hand coding?


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True spoken Richard and Andries.
I do use FW professionally since FW3 and struggle with matters in FW7 that where easy to do in FW6. But yes, you must be comfortable with inline construction and I was only partly in the past.

Sure you can use external code for galleries, ect. but in my experience there is always a huge risk that something is not compatible with Freeways code, not valid, something does not work or it just takes to long. And in the end there is no support (except here of course) if you are stuck. That’s why I try to “sell” my actual clients Exhibeo, but with its limits in mind.


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I use for years now third party extensions. fancy CSS3 menus, great working
Coffeecup Webforms, Videolightbox, WOWslider, Bannerzest and really, they
all work flawless. Its mostly a matter of pasting some codelines in the
header and in the body by Markup to get things up and running. Bear in mind
that most problems occur with bad pathways. Many wellknown thirdparty
companies offer excellent support btw.

2014-11-25 18:49 GMT+01:00 sonjanna email@hidden:

True spoken Richard and Andries.
I do use FW professionally since FW3 and struggle with matters in FW7 that
where easy to do in FW6. But yes, you must be comfortable with inline
construction and I was only partly in the past.

Sure you can use external code for galleries, ect. but in my experience
there is always a huge risk that something is not compatible with Freeways
code, not valid, something does not work or it just takes to long. And in
the end there is no support (except here of course) if you are stuck.
That’s why I try to “sell” my actual clients Exhibeo, but with its limits
in mind.


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I better ask you than Andries :wink:

PS: I do work with Machform by www.appnitro.com, great forms, easy setup, very good support, but just a few days ago I tried www.visuallightbox.com in order to get a responsive galerie for a client. The support never wrote back when I emailed them concerning a visual problem in smartphones displays and another code conflict… So I went back to Exhibeo. What would you use by the way for a gallerie with lightboxeffect and well designed eleganz but simple arrows in its sliders? Any suggestion?


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Weird, the support from Apycom normally reacts within 24 hrs, did you
purchased it or using the free version? I use Wowslider and Visuallightbox
when it needs to be responsive. I like their interface. There are
furthermore JStyler and Bannerzest (both non responsive but with extreme
CMS panel), CSSslider, Amazingslider, I think Exhibeo not elegant at all.
It should be a little fancy, your clients must be a little surprised what
you present them. The programs of Apycom are Windows and Mac exchangable
what can be an advantage. You can take a look at a site with use of
visuallightbox here: Portfolio - Schilderijen

2014-11-25 21:50 GMT+01:00 sonjanna email@hidden:

I better ask you than Andries :wink:

PS: I do work with Machform by www.appnitro.com, great forms, easy setup,
very good support, but just a few days ago I tried www.visuallightbox.com
in order to get a responsive galerie for a client. The support never wrote
back when I emailed them concerning a visual problem in smartphones
displays and another code conflict… So I went back to Exhibeo. What
would you use by the way for a gallerie with lightboxeffect and well
designed eleganz but simple arrows in its sliders? Any suggestion?


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You can take a look at a site with use of visuallightbox here: Portfolio - Schilderijen

… which shows exactly the same problems as the one with those two coloured lines in another thread. Honestly hard to read about “responsiveness” while seeing examples ending up in side-scrolling at 1980px.

####General

  1. The learning curve in 7 isn’t different to all other versions. The basics had been ignored by a mass of users since version 4 (too complicated, sucks, is there no action available?, is this code - uahh ugly!!).

  2. The percent widths are requirements which aren’t very new, other values will follow (such as viewport values as Richard outlined here http://freewaytalk.net/thread/view/156164 )

  3. We in FWT started the “adaptive to browser window widths” in mid 2012 using Freeway5.6.5. A strange time with a rumble beginning - the best I’ve ever had.

####Codephobics

The above example is (as Richard already said) possible - even in FW5. One of the most important things here is the basic framework (how-to place items and why).

People expect much, but their willingness to learn new things (or to review their strategies) is low.

The guys making the See Sense example did a cool job which was work, trying, work, removing, adding, work with some help of other talking-lists, work - testing and fiddling.

They neither had an action to do nor they sought the design-unsuck button.

Perhaps one of many reasons why you don’t find a flood of good examples here.

####Conclusion

One of the best start into this new world is Caleb’s backdraft. It’s the one and only framework for Freeway covering the basic needs for FrontEnd developing in 2014. I’d even start in 6 with v1.5 and examine it in detail. Once the gist, it’s time to step ahead.

FW7 isn’t perfect yet - but it’s a perfect approach which requires fine-tuning. All I can recommend is to simplify the basic page-structure in order to understand how things work these days.

And once a day (not far away), FreewayPro will be perfect - I wonder if it will be recognized.

Cheers

Thomas


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*Thomas

Thank you for your detailed answer. I would like only to reply on:

“The learning curve in 7 isn’t different to all other versions. The basics had been ignored by a mass of users since version 4 (too complicated, sucks, is there no action available?, is this code - uahh ugly!!).”

I know we had this discussion sometimes before. I don’t agree.

The „basic“ you say is the box model construction, which has been one way to design in FW besides others. (You follow this way many years already, so it easy to say the learning curves are not different) Other constructions have/had their proper value too, so many others followed these methods, learned it, used it for years with good reasons.

The „basic“ as you say is what Softpress promoted for years. „You see what you get“, no coding, just actions, easy to set up even for non-coder.

I find it strange to say, that people who did like to do exactly this what Softpress intensely promised - and had chosen their application on this account - to accuse of ignorance.

It is clear that FW offers advanced or alternative techniques too, but would I know in the first place?

Actions are very important additions for many of us; I know that you are using hardly none. It’s natural to ask for it. (Lucky us to have such a big pool of action writers.) And yes, I still miss a lot of actions that are ready for FW7.

But of course we have to face the change in usage of websites in many different end devices. Sure we have to be open for new techniques.

But the learning curve to FW7 is steep for many of us. So it was to me and still sometimes is - and I started with FW3. And I don`t consider me as ignorant. Do you? :wink:

Hanna


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Thanks for the replies.

For me part of the problem is that Freeway is advertised as being simple to use.

“Creating working prototypes and gorgeous production-level websites in Freeway is simple. Just draw your content on the page like you would in your favorite image editing or page layout application, and Freeway will automatically turn it into clean, standards-based, and semantic markup that works perfectly across all browsers and platforms.”

and

“Create websites that respond and adapt to any device they’re viewed on. Whether it’s a phone or a desktop computer, your sites will look exactly as you designed them to – and all in the same way that you create sites in Freeway right now.”

However, my experience with Freeway has taught me that that is very likely to not be the case and that a certain amount of getting under the hood will be required. Reading on here and seeing very few FW7 created sites makes me very wary of upgrading to FW7. I just don’t have the time to devote to the new version that I suspect will be needed and when something is advertised as “simple” I don’t see why I should.

My experience with Freeway has involved a lot of learning over the past versions but I do enjoy it as a productive tool that gets me to where I wanted to be. However, I need convincing that Freeway does what it says on the outside of the box before I upgrade. In the meantime I’m being forced to look elsewhere which is a shame really.

I predict that we are not too far away from an iPhone App that will do responsive web creation starting from an iPhone screen and working outwards towards a desktop screen.


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Amazing to see how people persist on their static constructions and attitudes. Point is, that those basic drop and drag constructions are simply a constraint - and ever were.

A constraint you’re living with and even find arguments against, up to:

“I have no time for to do!!!”

But what they are for sure is a way to create websites no further knowledge required. So nothing wrong with it - I did exactly this for my first projects, too. Believe it or not:

“I was for sure the dumbest bread under the sun when I started to make web design”

But we’re part of a service industry. Never let your clients know your attitude towards. And never complaint at a ticket desk anymore (or a train 5 minutes delayed).

I’m not your enemy (well - probably I am), but answering questions like:

“Is there a way to avoid inline-construction in order to get an item stretched all across the browser-window width?”

always end up in:

NO.

And examples like:

http://seesense.co

can’t be successfully create without:

“Double-click into your workspace so you see the flushing cursor and chose Insert → HTML-item” and believe it or not, this has nothing to do with code - nothing! It’s just the way to create inline items in Freeway.

Cheers

Thomas


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*Thomas. Nobody said to avoid inline constructions, at least not me. It’s one way to create non responsive or responsive websites. But there are others, see the FW7 tutorial, although the non flow construction has its disadvantages.

Streching items across the browserwindoware surly need an inline construction, but are basicly only a matter of which design you choose.

There is a broader view as you insist at least for my point of view. Enemies, we? Not at all.


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I knew there was a way to do a full-width banner in an absolute-positioned page: http://inlay.io/bacon.html

This is using the CSS3 transform: translate() technique to move an absolute child of the page to a centered position. You’ll have to check http://caniuse.com/#search=transform to see if the browser support fits your target audience.

This is not directly possible in Freeway’s UI, but with a couple of Actions it could be. If I have any time in the next few weeks, I’ll see if I can get something roughed out to do this.

Walter


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Using relative positioned items is not a question of responsiveness , it’s a question of preventing items from overlapping if it comes to unexpected heights (and widths).

This happens if you need to add more content as planned or expected. And I’m not talking about the browser-view I’m talking about the workspace and the result of pushing all the stuff below to get back the required space.

I’m sure we all mumbled and grumbled once by doing this amazing time consuming and layout breaking busywork. This was the initial aha-moment making me step to industry-standards.

Placing items relative to each other is the self-adjusting machinery - set and forget, no matter where you have to add or remove content - no matter if you need stretching items or not.

Ahm and RPL won’t work in FW7 anymore - just as a side note.

Cheers

Thomas


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Both sites were not intended to be responsive Thomas. Just readable on
desktop and tablets. For phone special I made a different smaller sites
with less information.

Keep in mind that we earn our money as a designer, not as a coder. I
wouldn’t think about it if I have to write half a page of postscript code
in Illustrator first just to make three colored squares with text an image
.

Though I highly admire the work you love.
Op 26 nov. 2014 10:13 schreef “Thomas Kimmich” email@hidden:

You can take a look at a site with use of visuallightbox here:
Portfolio - Schilderijen

… which shows exactly the same problems as the one with those two
coloured lines in another thread. Honestly hard to read about
“responsiveness” while seeing examples ending up in side-scrolling at
1980px.

####General

  1. The learning curve in 7 isn’t different to all other versions. The
    basics had been ignored by a mass of users since version 4 (too
    complicated, sucks, is there no action available?, is this code - uahh
    ugly!!).

  2. The percent widths are requirements which aren’t very new, other values
    will follow (such as viewport values as Richard outlined here
    http://freewaytalk.net/thread/view/156164 )

  3. We in FWT started the “adaptive to browser window widths” in mid 2012
    using Freeway5.6.5. A strange time with a rumble beginning - the best I’ve
    ever had.

####Codephobics

The above example is (as Richard already said) possible - even in FW5. One
of the most important things here is the basic framework (how-to place
items and why).

People expect much, but their willingness to learn new things (or to
review their strategies) is low.

The guys making the See Sense example did a cool job which was work,
trying, work, removing, adding, work with some help of other talking-lists,
work - testing and fiddling.

They neither had an action to do nor they sought the design-unsuck button.

Perhaps one of many reasons why you don’t find a flood of good examples
here.

####Conclusion

One of the best start into this new world is Caleb’s backdraft. It’s the
one and only framework for Freeway covering the basic needs for FrontEnd
developing in 2014. I’d even start in 6 with v1.5 and examine it in detail.
Once the gist, it’s time to step ahead.

FW7 isn’t perfect yet - but it’s a perfect approach which requires
fine-tuning. All I can recommend is to simplify the basic page-structure in
order to understand how things work these days.

And once a day (not far away), FreewayPro will be perfect - I wonder if it
will be recognized.

Cheers

Thomas


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And I like to make things quickly what clients can see, they are surely in
no way interested what happened under the hood. I also use inflow
techniques. But in no way its just as easy as Softpress says. I therefore
use a lot of prefabbed code in Actions, scripts, widgets etc just to speed
things up. And I m willing to pay for it and do that often if it saves me a
lot of time. So thank you for doing that job.
Op 26 nov. 2014 18:13 schreef email@hidden:

Both sites were not intended to be responsive Thomas. Just readable on
desktop and tablets. For phone special I made a different smaller sites
with less information.

Keep in mind that we earn our money as a designer, not as a coder. I
wouldn’t think about it if I have to write half a page of postscript code
in Illustrator first just to make three colored squares with text an image
.

Though I highly admire the work you love.
Op 26 nov. 2014 10:13 schreef “Thomas Kimmich” email@hidden:

You can take a look at a site with use of visuallightbox here:
Portfolio - Schilderijen

… which shows exactly the same problems as the one with those two
coloured lines in another thread. Honestly hard to read about
“responsiveness” while seeing examples ending up in side-scrolling at
1980px.

####General

  1. The learning curve in 7 isn’t different to all other versions. The
    basics had been ignored by a mass of users since version 4 (too
    complicated, sucks, is there no action available?, is this code - uahh
    ugly!!).

  2. The percent widths are requirements which aren’t very new, other
    values will follow (such as viewport values as Richard outlined here
    http://freewaytalk.net/thread/view/156164 )

  3. We in FWT started the “adaptive to browser window widths” in mid 2012
    using Freeway5.6.5. A strange time with a rumble beginning - the best I’ve
    ever had.

####Codephobics

The above example is (as Richard already said) possible - even in FW5.
One of the most important things here is the basic framework (how-to place
items and why).

People expect much, but their willingness to learn new things (or to
review their strategies) is low.

The guys making the See Sense example did a cool job which was work,
trying, work, removing, adding, work with some help of other talking-lists,
work - testing and fiddling.

They neither had an action to do nor they sought the design-unsuck button.

Perhaps one of many reasons why you don’t find a flood of good examples
here.

####Conclusion

One of the best start into this new world is Caleb’s backdraft. It’s the
one and only framework for Freeway covering the basic needs for FrontEnd
developing in 2014. I’d even start in 6 with v1.5 and examine it in detail.
Once the gist, it’s time to step ahead.

FW7 isn’t perfect yet - but it’s a perfect approach which requires
fine-tuning. All I can recommend is to simplify the basic page-structure in
order to understand how things work these days.

And once a day (not far away), FreewayPro will be perfect - I wonder if
it will be recognized.

Cheers

Thomas


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Thomas, correct me if I’m wrong …

I think part of what Thomas is saying is that those kinds of distinctions which were once more clearly defined have - for many of us - gotten blurry, and often times we need to work in other disciplines to get the job done.

I believe Thomas is promoting the idea that design and development are not always mutually-exclusive skills. Like Thomas I design and code because for myself and I think, Thomas too, the two worlds have become intertwined out of practical real-world necessity. I understand that not everyone has that need but for many of us our roles continue to evolve beyond what we once thought.

Todd

Keep in mind that we earn our money as a designer, not as a coder.


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one big solution could be just a couple of (softpress?)video tuts just for
a basic responsve site in steps with most common elements. Fluid, box or
fixed size. As a reference. Seeing is believing and pictures say more
then…


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I agree. Which is why I’m currently building a community tutorial site for that reason, among others.

Todd
http://xiiro.com http://xiiro.com/

one big solution could be just a couple of (softpress?)video tuts just for
a basic responsve site in steps with most common elements. Fluid, box or
fixed size. As a reference. Seeing is believing and pictures say more
then…


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