Coda 2

For those of you who use Coda alongside Freeway, Coda 2 will finally be available May 24th http://panic.com/coda/. Thank [insert your favorite deity here]! Yes, yes, YES!!

Todd


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If you’re in an upgrading or buying-for-the-first-time mood, it will be $49 for the first 24 hours only, then jump to $75, then at some point back up to $99.

As far as I know, there will not be any sort of upgrade price for 1.x license-holders outside of that time-based discount.

Walter

On May 21, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Todd wrote:

For those of you who use Coda alongside Freeway, Coda 2 will finally be available May 24th http://panic.com/coda/. Thank [insert your favorite deity here]! Yes, yes, YES!!

Todd
http://xiiro.com


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Cool. I’m gonna claw my way to the front of the virtual line for this one. Dammit, I’m excited!

Todd
http://xiiro.com

On May 21, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

If you’re in an upgrading or buying-for-the-first-time mood, it will be $49 for the first 24 hours only, then jump to $75, then at some point back up to $99.

As far as I know, there will not be any sort of upgrade price for 1.x license-holders outside of that time-based discount.

Walter

On May 21, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Todd wrote:

For those of you who use Coda alongside Freeway, Coda 2 will finally be available May 24th http://panic.com/coda/. Thank [insert your favorite deity here]! Yes, yes, YES!!

Todd
http://xiiro.com


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Code folding? I’m still struggling to figure out what GitHub is. Dang all
this tech-nolly-gee!

:slight_smile:

Ernie Simpson

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Todd email@hidden wrote:

Cool. I’m gonna claw my way to the front of the virtual line for this one.
Dammit, I’m excited!

Todd
http://xiiro.com

On May 21, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

If you’re in an upgrading or buying-for-the-first-time mood, it will be
$49 for the first 24 hours only, then jump to $75, then at some point back
up to $99.

As far as I know, there will not be any sort of upgrade price for 1.x
license-holders outside of that time-based discount.

Walter

On May 21, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Todd wrote:

For those of you who use Coda alongside Freeway, Coda 2 will finally be
available May 24th http://panic.com/coda/. Thank [insert your favorite
deity here]! Yes, yes, YES!!

Todd
http://xiiro.com


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I’m oversimplifying here but github (and Subversion or, svn) is a version control system, a way to track/create/merge multiple versions of files so you can very easily rollback to a previous version, merge one file with another or branch off and create new ones without losing or overwriting the original or current file. Coda 2 now natively supports both systems, whereas v1 only had Subversion.

Code folding is nothing more than a way to hide/show lines of code to make it visually easier to work with large files with hundreds or thousands of lines of code.

Todd
http://xiiro.com

On May 21, 2012, at 7:00 PM, Ernie Simpson wrote:

Code folding? I’m still struggling to figure out what GitHub is. Dang all
this tech-nolly-gee!

:slight_smile:

Ernie Simpson

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Todd email@hidden wrote:

Cool. I’m gonna claw my way to the front of the virtual line for this one.
Dammit, I’m excited!

Todd
http://xiiro.com

On May 21, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

If you’re in an upgrading or buying-for-the-first-time mood, it will be
$49 for the first 24 hours only, then jump to $75, then at some point back
up to $99.

As far as I know, there will not be any sort of upgrade price for 1.x
license-holders outside of that time-based discount.

Walter

On May 21, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Todd wrote:

For those of you who use Coda alongside Freeway, Coda 2 will finally be
available May 24th http://panic.com/coda/. Thank [insert your favorite
deity here]! Yes, yes, YES!!

Todd
http://xiiro.com


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And get off my lawn!

On May 21, 2012, at 8:00 PM, Ernie Simpson wrote:

Code folding? I’m still struggling to figure out what GitHub is. Dang all
this tech-nolly-gee!

:slight_smile:

Ernie Simpson

On Mon, May 21, 2012 at 6:16 PM, Todd email@hidden wrote:

Cool. I’m gonna claw my way to the front of the virtual line for this one.
Dammit, I’m excited!

Todd
http://xiiro.com

On May 21, 2012, at 5:11 PM, Walter Lee Davis wrote:

If you’re in an upgrading or buying-for-the-first-time mood, it will be
$49 for the first 24 hours only, then jump to $75, then at some point back
up to $99.

As far as I know, there will not be any sort of upgrade price for 1.x
license-holders outside of that time-based discount.

Walter

On May 21, 2012, at 5:46 PM, Todd wrote:

For those of you who use Coda alongside Freeway, Coda 2 will finally be
available May 24th http://panic.com/coda/. Thank [insert your favorite
deity here]! Yes, yes, YES!!

Todd
http://xiiro.com


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On 21 May 2012, at 22:46, Todd wrote:

For those of you who use Coda alongside Freeway, Coda 2 will finally be available May 24th http://panic.com/coda/. Thank [insert your favorite deity here]! Yes, yes, YES!!

Todd, out of interest, would you fancy laying out, in simple terms, how you use Coda with Freeway? I mean, do you start in Freeway and get the bare bones laid out, then finish/tweak it in Coda? I’d love to know. I’ve always wanted to buy Coda, but have never been able to justify the cost. As it’s going to be a lot cheaper for a short while, I just might go for it.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

Buy my eBooks at:
http://www.paulbradforth.com/books/


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Hi Paul,

When I bought Coda in '07 I was still using FW as my primary tool but I was also reaching a point in my understanding of HTML and CSS where I wanted to learn more (thanks to The Big Erns) so my fusion of the two started with writing my own stylesheets (using CSSEdit also) since it was one of the few ways I could change things without FW overwriting it thus bypassing as much of Freeway’s CSS editor as I could.

But I soon reached the point where the amount of changes I wanted to make were not practical because FW would overwrite things so I had to make a choice. For awhile I kept using FW for the initial bare-bones design then moving everything to Coda, as you suggested, but I would end up rewriting everything anyway and it was really double the work so I went with Coda full-time.

Todd

Todd, out of interest, would you fancy laying out, in simple terms, how you use Coda with Freeway? I mean, do you start in Freeway and get the bare bones laid out, then finish/tweak it in Coda? I’d love to know. I’ve always wanted to buy Coda, but have never been able to justify the cost. As it’s going to be a lot cheaper for a short while, I just might go for it.


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And besides, at $49 for the first 24 hours you almost have no reason not to buy a copy.

Todd

I’ve always wanted to buy Coda, but have never been able to justify the cost.


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Hi Paul – I also use Coda… When I use it with Freeway Pro, I use it as a
tool to easily and instantly gain feedback on styling. CSS coding in
Freeway still requires a hammer. Also, I can paste Freeway’s generated page
code into Coda to more easily work out my “under-the-hood” strategy before
switching back to Freeway.

Todd, Walter - leaving aside for a moment my inability to absorb new and
strange ways, does this versioning thing compare to Lion’s weird ‘Save a
version’ function? I’m still ‘saving as’ when I want to preserve versions…


Ernie Simpson

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 6:05 AM, Paul Bradforth email@hiddenwrote:

On 21 May 2012, at 22:46, Todd wrote:

For those of you who use Coda alongside Freeway, Coda 2 will finally be
available May 24th http://panic.com/coda/. Thank [insert your favorite
deity here]! Yes, yes, YES!!

Todd, out of interest, would you fancy laying out, in simple terms, how
you use Coda with Freeway? I mean, do you start in Freeway and get the bare
bones laid out, then finish/tweak it in Coda? I’d love to know. I’ve
always wanted to buy Coda, but have never been able to justify the cost.
As it’s going to be a lot cheaper for a short while, I just might go for it.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

Buy my eBooks at:
http://www.paulbradforth.com/books/


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The ‘Save a Version’ feature in Lion is, I suppose, in a very rudimentary/simplistic way similar to the basic premise of a proper version control system but something like git or SVN is an order of magnitude more refined and granular in its control of what can be done with/to files. I’m sure Walter can offer a good explanation.

Todd

On May 22, 2012, at 10:58 AM, Ernie Simpson wrote:

Hi Paul – I also use Coda… When I use it with Freeway Pro, I use it as a
tool to easily and instantly gain feedback on styling. CSS coding in
Freeway still requires a hammer. Also, I can paste Freeway’s generated page
code into Coda to more easily work out my “under-the-hood” strategy before
switching back to Freeway.

Todd, Walter - leaving aside for a moment my inability to absorb new and
strange ways, does this versioning thing compare to Lion’s weird ‘Save a
version’ function? I’m still ‘saving as’ when I want to preserve versions…


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Yes and no. Like Lion’s versioning, it doesn’t save a complete copy of each version of the file, only the differences between one state and the next. Unlike Lion’s versioning, it’s less useful for binary files like photos or Freeway documents. Lion is also predicated on a single user.

Git and Subversion (and CVS before it) allow you to maintain multiple, different, versions of the same file or set of files, and merge changes from one into another. These changes may be saved in branches or forks of the original code, and the basic premise is that you can replay the history of a file, in any direction of time, or fork of the code, and come out with the version that existed at any point along that timeline.

Git is designed from its very core to do this when you have multiple developers working on the same code base, so one person can check out the code, another person can check out the code, and as long as they don’t work on the exact same part of the code, their changes can be merged automatically. If they do work on the same part of the code, then a human will be asked to sort the differences out, but mostly it’s automatic.

Lion’s versions are more like TimeMachine snapshots of a file. You can roll back to one, but you can’t take the changes from one point in time and apply them to another point in time. Git can do that.

But all of this is fairly academic with respect to Freeway. Freeway saves binary files, and you can’t do anything meaningful with the diff between one and another, except save drive space when saving backups. That’s the approach that Lion takes, and so all you can do is look at snapshots in time, not read the list of changes and find the point you want to restore from based on the actual content of that file.

Walter

On May 22, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Ernie Simpson wrote:

Todd, Walter - leaving aside for a moment my inability to absorb new and
strange ways, does this versioning thing compare to Lion’s weird ‘Save a
version’ function? I’m still ‘saving as’ when I want to preserve versions…


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Well, I joined GitHub - mostly because I don’t want to be seen as an
anti-social coder (Hey, how I think of myself as I sit alone in my cave in
the woods is important to me!)

Though honestly I can’t imagine me ever using it. Hopefully they will
create cool bumper-sticker swag so I can still feel involved.


Ernie Simpson

On Tue, May 22, 2012 at 12:08 PM, Walter Lee Davis email@hiddenwrote:

Yes and no. Like Lion’s versioning, it doesn’t save a complete copy of
each version of the file, only the differences between one state and the
next. Unlike Lion’s versioning, it’s less useful for binary files like
photos or Freeway documents. Lion is also predicated on a single user.

Git and Subversion (and CVS before it) allow you to maintain multiple,
different, versions of the same file or set of files, and merge changes
from one into another. These changes may be saved in branches or forks of
the original code, and the basic premise is that you can replay the history
of a file, in any direction of time, or fork of the code, and come out with
the version that existed at any point along that timeline.

Git is designed from its very core to do this when you have multiple
developers working on the same code base, so one person can check out the
code, another person can check out the code, and as long as they don’t work
on the exact same part of the code, their changes can be merged
automatically. If they do work on the same part of the code, then a human
will be asked to sort the differences out, but mostly it’s automatic.

Lion’s versions are more like TimeMachine snapshots of a file. You can
roll back to one, but you can’t take the changes from one point in time and
apply them to another point in time. Git can do that.

But all of this is fairly academic with respect to Freeway. Freeway saves
binary files, and you can’t do anything meaningful with the diff between
one and another, except save drive space when saving backups. That’s the
approach that Lion takes, and so all you can do is look at snapshots in
time, not read the list of changes and find the point you want to restore
from based on the actual content of that file.

Walter

On May 22, 2012, at 11:58 AM, Ernie Simpson wrote:

Todd, Walter - leaving aside for a moment my inability to absorb new and
strange ways, does this versioning thing compare to Lion’s weird ‘Save a
version’ function? I’m still ‘saving as’ when I want to preserve
versions…


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You can always use it to post example/demo html files so people can download, tweak, fork or rework them. Could be useful to those people around here who may have an interest in getting a little more hands-on with code.

Todd

Though honestly I can’t imagine me ever using it.


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Schwag galore: http://shop.github.com/

(Beware – the “pint” glasses are 12oz only, if you like imported beer, you need to be careful while pouring…)

Walter

On May 22, 2012, at 12:27 PM, Ernie Simpson wrote:

Though honestly I can’t imagine me ever using it. Hopefully they will
create cool bumper-sticker swag so I can still feel involved.


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how I think of myself as I sit alone in my cave in
the woods is important to me!)

Never heard of the Charleston Caves… Sounds very damp.


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On 22 May 2012, at 15:42, Todd wrote:

When I bought Coda in '07 I was still using FW as my primary tool but I was also reaching a point in my understanding of HTML and CSS where I wanted to learn more (thanks to The Big Erns) so my fusion of the two started with writing my own stylesheets (using CSSEdit also) since it was one of the few ways I could change things without FW overwriting it thus bypassing as much of Freeway’s CSS editor as I could.

Thanks Todd. Presumably, you had Freeway set to use ‘External Stylesheets’, edited them in Coda or CSSEdit, saved them, and Freeway then took them as its own work? Given that I seriously dislike Freeway’s method of editing styles, this alone sounds worth buying Coda for.

But I soon reached the point where the amount of changes I wanted to make were not practical because FW would overwrite things so I had to make a choice. For awhile I kept using FW for the initial bare-bones design then moving everything to Coda, as you suggested, but I would end up rewriting everything anyway and it was really double the work so I went with Coda full-time.

I’m not sure I’m knowledgeable enough to do it all in Coda; I’m quite good at CSS, but odd as it may sound, hopeless at HTML. Still and all, Coda has books built in…

I’m doing less and less web work these days, due to personal uprootments I think I’ve mentioned here before (aged parent syndrome). But hell, for $49 I’d be mad not to buy it, and I will, tomorrow, first thing. Thanks for your thoughts, as always.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

Buy my eBooks at:
http://www.paulbradforth.com/books/


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No you still can’t edit any of Freeway’s work-product with impunity. Freeway does not read the files it makes, only (re)writes them. So if you want to affect your CSS, you need to add another stylesheet to the page, maybe using my External Stylesheets Action, and edit that. You won’t see the changes in Freeway unless you preview (since that’s just a WebKit view of the published files) or preview in a browser (same reason). You will still be playing “Battleship” with the design in the main design view.

Walter

On May 23, 2012, at 8:22 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

Thanks Todd. Presumably, you had Freeway set to use ‘External Stylesheets’, edited them in Coda or CSSEdit, saved them, and Freeway then took them as its own work? Given that I seriously dislike Freeway’s method of editing styles, this alone sounds worth buying Coda for.


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Thanks Todd. Presumably, you had Freeway set to use ‘External Stylesheets’, edited them in Coda or CSSEdit, saved them, and Freeway then took them as its own work? Given that I seriously dislike Freeway’s method of editing styles, this alone sounds worth buying Coda for.

I don’t recall the exact process for getting it into FW but yes, that sounds about right. Admittedly it wasn’t an ideal process because of all the inline styles FW generates which I had to remove with actions then add back with Coda plus there’s no way to disable FW’s default “styles” 'sheet. But I got it to work.

I’m not sure I’m knowledgeable enough to do it all in Coda; I’m quite good at CSS, but odd as it may sound, hopeless at HTML. Still and all, Coda has books built in…

Well, what I did initially was look at my FW-generated site files and rewrite them line-by-line to acclimate myself to the basic structure/syntax, all the while trimming a lot of fat and formatting the code in a way that made more sense to me. It’s amazing how quickly you can pick it up.

I’m doing less and less web work these days, due to personal uprootments I think I’ve mentioned here before (aged parent syndrome). But hell, for $49 I’d be mad not to buy it, and I will, tomorrow, first thing. Thanks for your thoughts, as always.

I figure it’s always useful to have a proper editor handy, even if you don’t need one everyday. Coda may not have the “geek cred” of the propeller-beanie-wearing-code-monkey crowd like TextMate, BBEdit, Vim or Eclipse, but it does just fine for front-end stuff. Plus it’s soooo sexy.

Todd


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No you still can’t edit any of Freeway’s work-product with impunity. Freeway does not read the files it makes, only (re)writes them. So if you want to affect your CSS, you need to add another stylesheet to the page, maybe using my External Stylesheets Action, and edit that.

Exactly.

Paul, that’s what I meant when I said I wrote my own 'sheet. I wasn’t modifying FW’s default 'sheet, I created/edited my own from scratch then added it to the mix.

Todd


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