future of intaglio

Legacy Intaglio
21

ME TOO.

If only because I dread having to switch. (I keep an old mini on a KVM just in case!)

Best,
–schremmer

On Dec 10, 2020, at 7:06 AM, Dirk Vermeulen email@hidden wrote:

payed a long time ago the fee. Use it beside a lot of other drawing programs. But the main reason for buying was: it opens all my old design’s from the sys6 to sys9 time of old programs (macdraw, clarisdraw, etc).

And untill now this is one of the best editors for svg’s.

For that and the opening old-files i will pay an upgrade price if necessary. So someone has to accept the challenge.

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22

I’ve used Intaglio for years with reasonably fair luck. I suspect the reason for discontinuance of support was not just the lack of purchasers but continuance of upgrading the OS system and then going from 32 bit to 64. Very tough in the head and on the pocket book.

I’ve tried a considerable number of apps and most did not do well including EazyDraw. I’m talking about importing, exporting, ungrouping documents from other apps. I had to do something to pick up the slack of loosing Intaglio in new operating systems.

I did find one that did all that but it took quite a bit of manipulation. SimpleCAD2 fit the bill ($20). But, to work with it, I dragged the thumbprint of the Intaglio drawing as shown in the Finder column into SimpleCAD2 and it worked. It Ungouped Intaglio drawings easily enabling me to functionally manipulate the drawing.

Of course, as mentioned in other comments, it is a matter of the likelyness of staying in business.

Hope this does well with you all.

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23

Hi budspwr,

Intaglio is already a 62-bit application, so no major rewrite would be necessary to make sure it would be completely compatible with Big Sur. (original message had graphs showing Intaglio listing from “System Information” but mail list would not accept it even when reduced in size!)

Thanks for heads-up on SimpleCAD2. Looking forward to comments of those who try/use it. A 82 years old and having used intaglio since MacDraw and then ClarisDraw disappeared I really don’t want to learn a new application. EasyDraw didn’t doitfor me!

Jack Jennings

On Feb 7, 2021, at 11:04 AM, budspwr <email@hidden mailto:email@hidden> wrote:

I’ve used Intaglio for years with reasonably fair luck. I suspect the reason for discontinuance of support was not just the lack of purchasers but continuance of upgrading the OS system and then going from 32 bit to 64. Very tough in the head and on the pocket book.

I’ve tried a considerable number of apps and most did not do well including EazyDraw. I’m talking about importing, exporting, ungrouping documents from other apps. I had to do something to pick up the slack of loosing Intaglio in new operating systems.

I did find one that did all that but it took quite a bit of manipulation. SimpleCAD2 fit the bill ($20). But, to work with it, I dragged the thumbprint of the Intaglio drawing as shown in the Finder column into SimpleCAD2 and it worked. It Ungouped Intaglio drawings easily enabling me to functionally manipulate the drawing.

Of course, as mentioned in other comments, it is a matter of the likelyness of staying in business.

Hope this does well with you all.

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24

87 years old and remember Lisa software. I was amazed going from 1985 to today.

On Feb 7, 2021, at 3:08 PM, J Evans Jennings Jr. email@hidden wrote:

Hi budspwr,

Intaglio is already a 62-bit application, so no major rewrite would be necessary to make sure it would be completely compatible with Big Sur. (original message had graphs showing Intaglio listing from “System Information” but mail list would not accept it even when reduced in size!)

Thanks for heads-up on SimpleCAD2. Looking forward to comments of those who try/use it. A 82 years old and having used intaglio since MacDraw and then ClarisDraw disappeared I really don’t want to learn a new application. EasyDraw didn’t do it for me!

Jack Jennings

On Feb 7, 2021, at 11:04 AM, budspwr <email@hidden mailto:email@hidden> wrote:

I’ve used Intaglio for years with reasonably fair luck. I suspect the reason for discontinuance of support was not just the lack of purchasers but continuance of upgrading the OS system and then going from 32 bit to 64. Very tough in the head and on the pocket book.

I’ve tried a considerable number of apps and most did not do well including EazyDraw. I’m talking about importing, exporting, ungrouping documents from other apps. I had to do something to pick up the slack of loosing Intaglio in new operating systems.

I did find one that did all that but it took quite a bit of manipulation. SimpleCAD2 fit the bill ($20). But, to work with it, I dragged the thumbprint of the Intaglio drawing as shown in the Finder column into SimpleCAD2 and it worked. It Ungouped Intaglio drawings easily enabling me to functionally manipulate the drawing.

Of course, as mentioned in other comments, it is a matter of the likelyness of staying in business.

Hope this does well with you all.

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25

I remember MacDraw well and ClarisWorks.

have you tried Graphic? (previously iDraw)

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26

I have tried Graphic. The problem with most of these, for my needs, is that they’re “drawing” apps and not “drafting” apps. There is some crossover of course, but for those of us that need drafting, the drawing apps just don’t have the right feature set.

John Whisman
707-694-2380

On Feb 8, 2021, at 4:00 AM, jayartibee email@hidden wrote:

I remember MacDraw well and ClarisWorks.

have you tried Graphic? (previously iDraw)

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27

How about Affinity Designer.
That is what I am using (along with Publisher and Photo).

IanH

On 8 Feb 2021, at 13:23, John Whisman email@hidden wrote:

I have tried Graphic. The problem with most of these, for my needs, is that they’re “drawing” apps and not “drafting” apps. There is some crossover of course, but for those of us that need drafting, the drawing apps just don’t have the right feature set.

John Whisman
707-694-2380

On Feb 8, 2021, at 4:00 AM, jayartibee email@hidden wrote:

I remember MacDraw well and ClarisWorks.

have you tried Graphic? (previously iDraw)

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28

I noticed two things: no update in 2 years and far to many bugs, freezes, & no pixel functions

Bud Willner

On Feb 8, 2021, at 3:59 AM, jayartibee email@hidden wrote:

I remember MacDraw well and ClarisWorks.

have you tried Graphic? (previously iDraw)

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29

Same problem with affinity designer-it’s a drawing app. As I recall I couldn’t even scale a drawing.

John Whisman
707-694-2380

On Feb 8, 2021, at 8:37 AM, email@hidden wrote:

How about Affinity Designer.
That is what I am using (along with Publisher and Photo).

IanH

On 8 Feb 2021, at 13:23, John Whisman email@hidden wrote:

I have tried Graphic. The problem with most of these, for my needs, is that they’re “drawing” apps and not “drafting” apps. There is some crossover of course, but for those of us that need drafting, the drawing apps just don’t have the right feature set.

John Whisman
707-694-2380

On Feb 8, 2021, at 4:00 AM, jayartibee email@hidden wrote:

I remember MacDraw well and ClarisWorks.

have you tried Graphic? (previously iDraw)

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30

I’m far more inclined to need a drafting than a drawing app just as you say. So, I’m still looking but working with SimpleCAD2 right now. Affinity is very unsuitable for me as is Graphic. I can’t afford Photoshop annual cost let alone a one time expense.

Bud Willner

On Feb 8, 2021, at 9:20 AM, John Whisman email@hidden wrote:

Same problem with affinity designer-it’s a drawing app. As I recall I couldn’t even scale a drawing.

John Whisman
707-694-2380

On Feb 8, 2021, at 8:37 AM, email@hidden wrote:

How about Affinity Designer.
That is what I am using (along with Publisher and Photo).

IanH

On 8 Feb 2021, at 13:23, John Whisman email@hidden wrote:

I have tried Graphic. The problem with most of these, for my needs, is that they’re “drawing” apps and not “drafting” apps. There is some crossover of course, but for those of us that need drafting, the drawing apps just don’t have the right feature set.

John Whisman
707-694-2380

On Feb 8, 2021, at 4:00 AM, jayartibee email@hidden wrote:

I remember MacDraw well and ClarisWorks.

have you tried Graphic? (previously iDraw)

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31

Transitions: MacDraw, ClarisDraw, Intaglio. All great DRAFTING programs with good text editor. Those were too good to be true and only minor updates. Those suffered from poor marketing and no business method to maintain their income. Marketing: look at the credit card people offering an incentive if you can get an acquaintance to sign up. Income: charge an initial fee plus an annual reasonable renewal fee.
Why do I have a suspicion that the App Store is requiring too big a bite of anything for it to work?

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32

On 10 Feb 2021, 2:00 am, Jean Haydel wrote:

I think Canvas was in my history.

I don’t envie developers. For something I use continually a subscription might be OK. But I use a drafting program occasionally and more comfortable buying a program and assume I will renew or upgrade in say three years. That’s what I used to do with Photoshop Elements. About $70 every three years. I’ve changed programs but same idea.

I don’t think you can blame Apple. Programs can be sold without the store for macOS; but most developers seem to find they must be in the store to make it. But the iOS store may have hurt. There is a rush to the bottom and most programs are too cheap to be sustainable. People expect programs to be cheap. And too many of us are willing to buy the cheaper program. I’ve seen and participated in using a free program that eventually started charging. Did I stay with the payment or try something else.?Depends. But now that there are fewer major changes in programs, I find I buy (usually) or subscribe and stay with it for as long as possible. The trouble of changing is the major pain point, not the cost.

Apple’s cut may be too big, but 70 percent vs say 90 percent probably wouldn’t be the make or break for many programs. In fact if the cut were lower, some developers might just cut the price to get more business.

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33

You have made some major points and I agree.

My issue is with cloud computing. We are forced to loose our freedom of choice, pay high annual costs, loose control of our data, loose control of what program works with what set of data. This last one may be hard to understand but I have an example.

TurboTax: Every year I purchase a CD which has the tax year program on it. The reason for this is IRS changes parts of the tax plan every year. New tax year programs do not work with previous year tax requirements. So, yes I have many CD’s for all my tax years. Now, if TurboTax went to cloud computing, I would loose control of all my personal tax data, and, if called into IRS I would not have my data. Hard copies, perhaps! None the less, sending my personal data into the clouds is not a happy thought. Other cloud programs are the same, scary.

I have not tried Canvas in a very long time. And, I do think cheaper app generally do not stay around. Seems the developer is looking for a buyer. This is true for computer hardware sellers/developers a well as software developers. I bought a very expensive PTZ outdoor camera from an outfit doing business with China and now their web page is on the blocks like Intaglio.

Bud Willner

On Feb 9, 2021, at 9:59 PM, Greg email@hidden wrote:

On 10 Feb 2021, 2:00 am, Jean Haydel wrote:

I think Canvas was in my history.

I don’t envie developers. For something I use continually a subscription might be OK. But I use a drafting program occasionally and more comfortable buying a program and assume I will renew or upgrade in say three years. That’s what I used to do with Photoshop Elements. About $70 every three years. I’ve changed programs but same idea.

I don’t think you can blame Apple. Programs can be sold without the store for macOS; but most developers seem to find they must be in the store to make it. But the iOS store may have hurt. There is a rush to the bottom and most programs are too cheap to be sustainable. People expect programs to be cheap. And too many of us are willing to buy the cheaper program. I’ve seen and participated in using a free program that eventually started charging. Did I stay with the payment or try something else.?Depends. But now that there are fewer major changes in programs, I find I buy (usually) or subscribe and stay with it for as long as possible. The trouble of changing is the major pain point, not the cost.

Apple’s cut may be too big, but 70 percent vs say 90 percent probably wouldn’t be the make or break for many programs. In fact if the cut were lower, some developers might just cut the price to get more business.

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34

That is one reason I have gone for Affinity. They look like they are making inroads into Adobe’s business and look like they are likely to be around for a few years.

However Affinity Design doesn’t have dimensioned lines and suchlike, so is probably not a viable option for those wanting a draughting package.

IanH

On 10 Feb 2021, at 14:28, Bud email@hidden wrote:

You have made some major points and I agree.

My issue is with cloud computing. We are forced to loose our freedom of choice, pay high annual costs, loose control of our data, loose control of what program works with what set of data. This last one may be hard to understand but I have an example.

TurboTax: Every year I purchase a CD which has the tax year program on it. The reason for this is IRS changes parts of the tax plan every year. New tax year programs do not work with previous year tax requirements. So, yes I have many CD’s for all my tax years. Now, if TurboTax went to cloud computing, I would loose control of all my personal tax data, and, if called into IRS I would not have my data. Hard copies, perhaps! None the less, sending my personal data into the clouds is not a happy thought. Other cloud programs are the same, scary.

I have not tried Canvas in a very long time. And, I do think cheaper app generally do not stay around. Seems the developer is looking for a buyer. This is true for computer hardware sellers/developers a well as software developers. I bought a very expensive PTZ outdoor camera from an outfit doing business with China and now their web page is on the blocks like Intaglio.

Bud Willner

On Feb 9, 2021, at 9:59 PM, Greg email@hidden wrote:

On 10 Feb 2021, 2:00 am, Jean Haydel wrote:

I think Canvas was in my history.

I don’t envie developers. For something I use continually a subscription might be OK. But I use a drafting program occasionally and more comfortable buying a program and assume I will renew or upgrade in say three years. That’s what I used to do with Photoshop Elements. About $70 every three years. I’ve changed programs but same idea.

I don’t think you can blame Apple. Programs can be sold without the store for macOS; but most developers seem to find they must be in the store to make it. But the iOS store may have hurt. There is a rush to the bottom and most programs are too cheap to be sustainable. People expect programs to be cheap. And too many of us are willing to buy the cheaper program. I’ve seen and participated in using a free program that eventually started charging. Did I stay with the payment or try something else.?Depends. But now that there are fewer major changes in programs, I find I buy (usually) or subscribe and stay with it for as long as possible. The trouble of changing is the major pain point, not the cost.

Apple’s cut may be too big, but 70 percent vs say 90 percent probably wouldn’t be the make or break for many programs. In fact if the cut were lower, some developers might just cut the price to get more business.

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35

Dear fellow Intaglio users,

As a long time user of MacDraw, followed by ClarisDraw and finally Intaglio, I don’t want to they and find an alternate. I remember using Canvas many many years ago and the drawing side of it did not compare with a true vector-based DRAWING program. I need the dimensioning, I need the multiple layers and I really like Intaglio.

Several members of this mail list have said they have written to Mark Hamlin. Can anyone provide a good email or physical address for him. I was saddened to attempt to visit his website, purgatorydesign.com and found, “purgatorydesign.com expired on 02/06/2021 and is pending renewal or deletion.”

Is Mark Hamlin retired? still alive? Could possibly a deluge of emails asking him to either keep Intaglio going or to sell (or give) the 2011 copyright and code to some young, programmer who could keep it going? If it would…. someone please dig up an address telephone number or other means of contact. LinkedIn list 100+ Mark Hamlins, none of which appear to be him. Facebook lists 80! If anyone knows anything, please speak up!

Comments solicited,

Jack Jennings, Sicklerville, NJ

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36

Correction - Although Mark Hamlin held the 2011 Copyrigh it appears the Nick Nallick is the person to contact. Any contacting for him?

Dear fellow Intaglio users,

As a long time user of MacDraw, followed by ClarisDraw and finally Intaglio, I don’t want to they and find an alternate. I remember using Canvas many many years ago and the drawing side of it did not compare with a true vector-based DRAWING program. I need the dimensioning, I need the multiple layers and I really like Intaglio.

Several members of this mail list have said they have written to Mark Hamlin. Can anyone provide a good email or physical address for him. I was saddened to attempt to visit his website, purgatorydesign.com http://purgatorydesign.com/ and found, “purgatorydesign.com http://purgatorydesign.com/ expired on 02/06/2021 and is pending renewal or deletion.”

Is Mark Hamlin retired? still alive? Could possibly a deluge of emails asking him to either keep Intaglio going or to sell (or give) the 2011 copyright and code to some young, programmer who could keep it going? If it would…. someone please dig up an address telephone number or other means of contact. LinkedIn list 100+ Mark Hamlins, none of which appear to be him. Facebook lists 80! If anyone knows anything, please speak up!

Comments solicited,

Jack Jennings, Sicklerville, NJ

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37

Has anyone used this contact information?
Nick Nallick
970-259-7129
email@hidden mailto:email@hidden
Is it good?

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38

I cannot say for sure that any of this information is correct, but "For what it’s worth”:

I did some searching for Nick Nallick a few months ago, and believe I found his Facebook page:

His wife I believe is Marina, and her Facebook page is here:

====================

I got the following information several months ago from (I think) Nick Nallick, (970) 259-7119, Durango — Public Records Instantly,
((I cannot get the same information tonight.))

Note there are TWO addresses associated with him, so one may be an old one, and one may be a new (or older) one.
Those two addresses are about 17 miles apart, and the town of Durango is close to being in the middle.

Note that the first phone number matches the one posted below in J Evans Jennings Jr. email.

====================

From clustrmaps.com http://clustrmaps.com/ (or a similar site):

438 Horse Thief Ln, Durango, CO 81301

430 Rendezvous Trail, Hesperus, CO 81326

Nick is a high school graduate. Current occupation is listed as Professional/Technical. Nick is a resident of 438 Horse Thief Lanes, Durango, CO 81301-3103. We know that J Cheryl Jackson, Chris K Moore, and five other persons also lived at this address, perhaps within a different time frame. (970) 259-7119 (Qwest Corporation), (970) 259-7126 are the phone numbers for Nick. Public records show that the phone number (970) 259-7119 is linked to Jennifer Lea Hayde, Marina H Nallick, Nick Nallick
Nick Nallick Phone Numbers

(970) 259-7119 Landline phone by Qwest Corporation, three persons associated

(970) 259-7126 Landline phone by Qwest Corporation


|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Thanks.   -  James Ingram, land 570-322-7597,  JamesIngram.net <http://jamesingram.net/>
|  facebook.com/james.robert.ingram <http://facebook.com/james.robert.ingram> 
|  Apache Junction AZ, Williamsport PA
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




On Feb 13, 2021, at 3:04 PM, J Evans Jennings Jr. <email@hidden> wrote:

Has anyone used this contact information?
Nick Nallick
970-259-7129
email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden>
Is it good?
_______________________________________________
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39

Revised Reduced Posting that was moderated for being too big:

To James Ingram, Frederick and all:

I think James’ detective work has identified enough about Nick Nallick to pin down valid contact information for our “person of interest”. Although the Marina and Nick Facebook pages very well could be man and wife (from a comparison of page photos) I could not find enough information on Facebook to tie this Nick to “our” Nick.

I do believe the telephone number and email that I published are accurate since they were associated with the following Resumé (truncated to stay within forum size limitations):

970-259-7129
email@hidden mailto:email@hidden
Professional software development for iOS since 2008 and Macintosh since 1984.
Contract programming and consulting services available.

· iOS and Macintosh Developer (independent, contract and salaried), 1984-present (iOS since 2008)

· Developed Mac software since the beginning of the Macintosh, working independently and for both small and large teams and companies directly with clients. Also developed several commercial grade iOS apps, from design through implementation, testing, deployment and marketing. Extensive experience in a variety of languages and methods, hardware and software tools, and work environments. Particularly experienced in user interface development, graphics and multi-threaded processing.

· Intaglio is a vector drawing Macintosh app available independently since 2003 and now also on the MacApp Store. It is a full featured graphics app with sophisticated graphics capabilities, including vector manipulation, import and export of various file formats, advanced text handling and nondestructive image filters.

· Vectorize is an open source GPL Macintosh app that provides a Mac front-end to a cross-platform raster to vector graphics conversion engine.

The question now is the balance between our desire to convince him to continue to support Intaglio and our rights (if any) as former customers to violate his privacy! I don’t think it would be prudent to deluge him with tons of mail, email and telephone calls. This is a tough one that I’m putting out for discussion here. Perhaps one polite message from us as a group would be in order first, asking him to reply to the group. What should be in this letter?

Jack Jennings

On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:55 AM, Ingram-James5-purchasing email@hidden wrote:

I cannot say for sure that any of this information is correct, but "For what it’s worth”:

I did some searching for Nick Nallick a few months ago, and believe I found his Facebook page:
Redirecting...

His wife I believe is Marina, and her Facebook page is here:
Marina Nallick

====================

I got the following information several months ago from (I think) Nick Nallick, (970) 259-7119, Durango — Public Records Instantly,
((I cannot get the same information tonight.))

Note there are TWO addresses associated with him, so one may be an old one, and one may be a new (or older) one.
Those two addresses are about 17 miles apart, and the town of Durango is close to being in the middle.

Note that the first phone number matches the one posted below in J Evans Jennings Jr. email.

====================

From clustrmaps.com http://clustrmaps.com/ (or a similar site):

438 Horse Thief Ln, Durango, CO 81301

430 Rendezvous Trail, Hesperus, CO 81326

Nick is a high school graduate. Current occupation is listed as Professional/Technical. Nick is a resident of 438 Horse Thief Lanes, Durango, CO 81301-3103. We know that J Cheryl Jackson, Chris K Moore, and five other persons also lived at this address, perhaps within a different time frame. (970) 259-7119 (Qwest Corporation), (970) 259-7126 are the phone numbers for Nick. Public records show that the phone number (970) 259-7119 is linked to Jennifer Lea Hayde, Marina H Nallick, Nick Nallick
Nick Nallick Phone Numbers

(970) 259-7119 Landline phone by Qwest Corporation, three persons associated

(970) 259-7126 Landline phone by Qwest Corporation


|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Thanks.   -  James Ingram, land 570-322-7597,  JamesIngram.net <http://jamesingram.net/>
|  facebook.com/james.robert.ingram <http://facebook.com/james.robert.ingram> 
|  Apache Junction AZ, Williamsport PA
|--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




On Feb 13, 2021, at 3:04 PM, J Evans Jennings Jr. <email@hidden> wrote:

Has anyone used this contact information?
Nick Nallick
970-259-7129
email@hidden <mailto:email@hidden>
Is it good?
_______________________________________________
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40

Frederick,

I did get the point of your post. Yes, the mail list is published on an open web site, however, the very purpose of the mail list is to support a specific computer application, Intaglio, and not a dark web source of personal information to be used for nefarious purposes. You may have given up on the application and successfully moved your current work to another, and that’s great…. for you. From my reading of many messages on this forum I detect a number of users who haven’t found a suitable substitute application… for them. They may also have a feeling of being abandoned by the developer and would like to know why this has happened and if anything can be done to save intaglio. Because of this I feel a discussion of how we might either convince the developer to again support the application, sell it to someone else, or provide an explanation of why he is dropping it is in order. To do this we need contact information, hence my post(s).

It very well might be that his signing up with Apple to sell the application in the Apple Store is the root cause of its demise. In doing this he allowed Apple to take a giant cut from gross proceeds and agreed to some horrendous restrictions on what he could do with his product once he withdrew it from the store. Other small developers have suffered this fate.

If this be the case, I for one would like to see if he could come up with some kind of a support subscription that would allow Intaglio users who purchased his product BEFORE he signed up with Apple (like myself) that would allow us to keep using it. I would do this myself but thought a more effective approach would be to gather together input from many of his customers to present to him. This my call for a discussion… to come up with a list of reasons he should either find a way to get around Apple’s restrictions and reinstate the product, or at the very least provide a path of continued support.

Another reason for stating a discussion is that I know that at one time Mark monitored this forum. I am secretly hoping he might post as much of an explanation of why he has done this that his contractual restrictions with Apple might allow.

Jack Jennings

On Feb 14, 2021, at 1:05 PM, Frederick email@hidden wrote:

In message email@hidden
“J Evans Jennings Jr.” email@hidden wrote:

The question now is the balance between our desire to convince him to
continue to support Intaglio and our rights (if any) as former customers
to violate his privacy!

I think you’ve missed the point. Customers aren’t the issue. This mail
list is published on an open web site.

Still, irrelevant now.

My own view is to abandon Intaglio even if there were to be further
development. A question of trust. The more work produced with it now, the
more to convert in the future if things go astray.

I’ve now moved everything to another app via SVG without too much
difficulty, just time. This time not using one man band sox.

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