Moutain Lion, an animal to be feared?

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21

Aaah, gotcha!
thanks

On 21 Feb 2012, at 13:14, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 21 Feb 2012, at 12:17, Trevor Reaveley wrote:

So where is Auto Save in Lion? I can’t find it anywhere.

It’s everywhere, but only in applications that support it. Freeway doesn’t support it. If you launch a supported application, usually an Apple one, you’ll see that if you pull down the ‘File’ menu, there is no ‘Save As…’ command; it’s replaced with ‘Save a version’. If you do this in, say, TextEdit, and save a version, if you look at the title bar of the document window, you’ll see a little downward-pointing triangle which, if you click it, will allow you to browse previous versions. You can quit without saving the document, and it won’t ask if you want to, but next time you open it, it will be as you left it, already saved. It’s a kind of magic :slight_smile:
So, unlike what we’ve all thought of as ‘Auto Save’ in the past, you could be working on, say, a TextEdit or Pages document and then Select All, delete everything and then quit, but you wouldn’t have actually lost what you deleted; it’s available under the ‘Versions’ triangle in the title bar. Although next time you opened the document it would open with no content, quite rightly, as that’s the last state it was in when you quit.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

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22

Careful about upgrading to Pages 9 in Lion. It will not let me save duplicates, do anything with auto saved versions etc - window says you do not have permission…

I have fixed permissions (disk utility), changed permissions through Get Info, and now just going to reinstall 8 until Microsoft gives a resolve for this problem. Didn’t help to have a deadline to submit a resume, but thats OK, it IS the biggest Toy Co in the world…!

F

Grrrr : (

On Feb 21, 2012, at 5:14 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 21 Feb 2012, at 12:17, Trevor Reaveley wrote:

So where is Auto Save in Lion? I can’t find it anywhere.

It’s everywhere, but only in applications that support it. Freeway doesn’t support it. If you launch a supported application, usually an Apple one, you’ll see that if you pull down the ‘File’ menu, there is no ‘Save As…’ command; it’s replaced with ‘Save a version’. If you do this in, say, TextEdit, and save a version, if you look at the title bar of the document window, you’ll see a little downward-pointing triangle which, if you click it, will allow you to browse previous versions. You can quit without saving the document, and it won’t ask if you want to, but next time you open it, it will be as you left it, already saved. It’s a kind of magic :slight_smile:
So, unlike what we’ve all thought of as ‘Auto Save’ in the past, you could be working on, say, a TextEdit or Pages document and then Select All, delete everything and then quit, but you wouldn’t have actually lost what you deleted; it’s available under the ‘Versions’ triangle in the title bar. Although next time you opened the document it would open with no content, quite rightly, as that’s the last state it was in when you quit.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

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http://www.paulbradforth.com/books/

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23

Why does Microsoft have anything to do with this problem?

I have had not problem with the upgrade to Lion and with Pages. If needed, I select duplicate, then save the duplicate as what I want it to be.

Midi

Frank caused electrons to hula in cyberspace with:

Careful about upgrading to Pages 9 in Lion. It will not let me save
duplicates, do anything with auto saved versions etc - window says you
do not have permission…

I have fixed permissions (disk utility), changed permissions through Get
Info, and now just going to reinstall 8 until Microsoft gives a resolve
for this problem. Didn’t help to have a deadline to submit a resume,
but thats OK, it IS the biggest Toy Co in the world…!

F

Grrrr : (

On Feb 21, 2012, at 5:14 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 21 Feb 2012, at 12:17, Trevor Reaveley wrote:

So where is Auto Save in Lion? I can’t find it anywhere.

It’s everywhere, but only in applications that support it. Freeway
doesn’t support it. If you launch a supported application, usually an
Apple one, you’ll see that if you pull down the ‘File’ menu, there is no
‘Save As…’ command; it’s replaced with ‘Save a version’. If you do
this in, say, TextEdit, and save a version, if you look at the title bar
of the document window, you’ll see a little downward-pointing triangle
which, if you click it, will allow you to browse previous versions. You
can quit without saving the document, and it won’t ask if you want to,
but next time you open it, it will be as you left it, already saved.
It’s a kind of magic :slight_smile:
So, unlike what we’ve all thought of as ‘Auto Save’ in the past, you
could be working on, say, a TextEdit or Pages document and then Select
All, delete everything and then quit, but you wouldn’t have actually
lost what you deleted; it’s available under the ‘Versions’ triangle in
the title bar. Although next time you opened the document it would open
with no content, quite rightly, as that’s the last state it was in when
you quit.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

Buy my eBooks at:
Hi, it's ebOOxa

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24

I just think the (correct me if I am wrong) none option ‘upgrade’ that causes failure is a Window move.

Granted, the issue is more complicated, but panicked and looking for answers finding obscure user group list and the likes…

Sometimes this reliance on this stuff even with the most trusted co. is scary as hell.

Frank H

On Feb 21, 2012, at 6:21 PM, Midi Cox wrote:

Why does Microsoft have anything to do with this problem?

I have had not problem with the upgrade to Lion and with Pages. If needed, I select duplicate, then save the duplicate as what I want it to be.

Midi

Frank caused electrons to hula in cyberspace with:

Careful about upgrading to Pages 9 in Lion. It will not let me save
duplicates, do anything with auto saved versions etc - window says you
do not have permission…

I have fixed permissions (disk utility), changed permissions through Get
Info, and now just going to reinstall 8 until Microsoft gives a resolve
for this problem. Didn’t help to have a deadline to submit a resume,
but thats OK, it IS the biggest Toy Co in the world…!

F

Grrrr : (

On Feb 21, 2012, at 5:14 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 21 Feb 2012, at 12:17, Trevor Reaveley wrote:

So where is Auto Save in Lion? I can’t find it anywhere.

It’s everywhere, but only in applications that support it. Freeway
doesn’t support it. If you launch a supported application, usually an
Apple one, you’ll see that if you pull down the ‘File’ menu, there is no
‘Save As…’ command; it’s replaced with ‘Save a version’. If you do
this in, say, TextEdit, and save a version, if you look at the title bar
of the document window, you’ll see a little downward-pointing triangle
which, if you click it, will allow you to browse previous versions. You
can quit without saving the document, and it won’t ask if you want to,
but next time you open it, it will be as you left it, already saved.
It’s a kind of magic :slight_smile:
So, unlike what we’ve all thought of as ‘Auto Save’ in the past, you
could be working on, say, a TextEdit or Pages document and then Select
All, delete everything and then quit, but you wouldn’t have actually
lost what you deleted; it’s available under the ‘Versions’ triangle in
the title bar. Although next time you opened the document it would open
with no content, quite rightly, as that’s the last state it was in when
you quit.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

Buy my eBooks at:
Hi, it's ebOOxa

offtopic mailing list
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25

Why does Microsoft have anything to do with this problem?

I have had not problem with the upgrade to Lion and with Pages. If needed, I select duplicate, then save the duplicate as what I want it to be.

Midi

Frank caused electrons to hula in cyberspace with:

Careful about upgrading to Pages 9 in Lion. It will not let me save
duplicates, do anything with auto saved versions etc - window says you
do not have permission…

I have fixed permissions (disk utility), changed permissions through Get
Info, and now just going to reinstall 8 until Microsoft gives a resolve
for this problem. Didn’t help to have a deadline to submit a resume,
but thats OK, it IS the biggest Toy Co in the world…!

F

Grrrr : (

On Feb 21, 2012, at 5:14 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 21 Feb 2012, at 12:17, Trevor Reaveley wrote:

So where is Auto Save in Lion? I can’t find it anywhere.

It’s everywhere, but only in applications that support it. Freeway
doesn’t support it. If you launch a supported application, usually an
Apple one, you’ll see that if you pull down the ‘File’ menu, there is no
‘Save As…’ command; it’s replaced with ‘Save a version’. If you do
this in, say, TextEdit, and save a version, if you look at the title bar
of the document window, you’ll see a little downward-pointing triangle
which, if you click it, will allow you to browse previous versions. You
can quit without saving the document, and it won’t ask if you want to,
but next time you open it, it will be as you left it, already saved.
It’s a kind of magic :slight_smile:
So, unlike what we’ve all thought of as ‘Auto Save’ in the past, you
could be working on, say, a TextEdit or Pages document and then Select
All, delete everything and then quit, but you wouldn’t have actually
lost what you deleted; it’s available under the ‘Versions’ triangle in
the title bar. Although next time you opened the document it would open
with no content, quite rightly, as that’s the last state it was in when
you quit.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

Buy my eBooks at:
Hi, it's ebOOxa

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26

On 22 Feb 2012, at 02:16, Frank H wrote:

Careful about upgrading to Pages 9 in Lion. It will not let me save duplicates, do anything with auto saved versions etc - window says you do not have permission…

Works fine here (It’s actually Pages version 4.1, iWork 09). I can save duplicates, roll back to previous versions, everything you’re supposed to be able to do. Sounds as though your problem might be local?

What was that Microsoft stuff about, by the way?

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

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http://www.paulbradforth.com/books/

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27

Sarcasm

Frank H.
On Feb 22, 2012, at 1:08 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 22 Feb 2012, at 02:16, Frank H wrote:

Careful about upgrading to Pages 9 in Lion. It will not let me save duplicates, do anything with auto saved versions etc - window says you do not have permission…

Works fine here (It’s actually Pages version 4.1, iWork 09). I can save duplicates, roll back to previous versions, everything you’re supposed to be able to do. Sounds as though your problem might be local?

What was that Microsoft stuff about, by the way?

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

Buy my eBooks at:
http://www.paulbradforth.com/books/

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28

Back to the Lion issues. I have an iMac 27" and a MacBookPro 17# to my disposal. I’ve allways been the first to download and install updates, both system and applications. To be totally honest … I’ve never encountered any problem whats however. Not ever. Currently running OSX Lion 10.7.3 and FreewayPro 5.6.4, and every single release has been running just fine here. The only thing that lacks in the FW releases since Lion was unleashed is that it doesn’t behave anything like any Lion-ready application. But it runs perfectly. So does any other app.

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29

Richard,

thanks for your input.

If you look back to my thread starter, you will see that I am not concerned with whether or not this or that program will work with Lion or Mountain Lion, but with my perception that Apple is seeking to erode the freedom of choice of those who, for ‘professional’ reasons, feel client driven to buy the very latest hardware or software.

As a Professional designer for the Web and elsewhere, you must seek to maximize the difference between income and outgoings on hardware and software. Surely then the question should not be “can I do the client’s task on the very latest HW and SW?”, but “can I still do it (albeit with some extra coding), with 'older HW and SW”, thereby saving some hard earned money.

Just because a thing comes into existence, does not of itself, justify its existence.

Bob

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On 24 Feb 2012, at 14:34, Bob King wrote:

As a Professional designer for the Web and elsewhere, you must seek to maximize the difference between income and outgoings on hardware and software. Surely then the question should not be “can I do the client’s task on the very latest HW and SW?”, but “can I still do it (albeit with some extra coding), with 'older HW and SW”, thereby saving some hard earned money.

Hi Bob; if you believe in the old adage ‘Time is money’, then you’ll do better to keep your equipment, including your OS, up to date. You say ‘albeit with some extra coding’ above, without seeming to see that as a disadvantage. Wouldn’t it be nicer to do it without needing that? If you’re the professional designer that you refer to above, then the difference between incomings and outgoings on hardware/software will, or should be, immense. Your tools will typically cost a mere fraction of the money you earn using them, in an ideal world, at least. I do realise that all worlds are not ideal though.

I had a read of your original post, just to make sure I knew what you were talking about:

Snow Leopard is perfect for me. The (over) rapid release of Lion, with (for Apple) unusual, teething problems, and Apple’s adoption of the Microsoft ‘enforcement’ culture, Aka Windoze, has stopped me from going Lion.

Out of interest, why do you think that Lion was released ‘over rapidly’, and what were the teething problems? I had none here, I just switched and everything seemed to work perfectly. What’s Apple’s 'adoption of the Microsoft enforcement culture? I don’t feel as though I’ve been forced into doing anything I wouldn’t have welcomed with open arms.

I now see that 10.8, or ‘Mountain Lion’, is on the horizon, in direct competition with Windows 8

What’s the significance of it being ‘in direct competition with Windows 8’?

with both seeming to have abandoned the desktop computer, and going hell bent for the tablet, phone and touch symbol-control market.

This really isn’t the case. You can run Lion in exactly the same way as you run Snow Leopard, or for that matter, Tiger before it. Nobody is saying you have to use IOS gestures, or a Magic Trackpad. You can plug in any old USB mouse and continue to do just what you always did. Apple are not doing what Microsoft are doing. Microsoft is going for ‘Windows everywhere’, on PC and tablet alike, which is pretty dumb as they’re different paradigms. Apple is merely trying to ensure that if you have a Mac and an IOS device, you’ll be able to use them both in a very similar way. As an iPad owner, I applaud that. But it’s not obligatory; you have all the freedom in the world to use Lion just as you’ve used previous system versions, and you’ll still find many advantages if you do, albeit not as many as if you embrace it wholeheartedly. Apple isn’t trying to make the OS the same on the Mac as it is on the tablet. They’re merely trying to bring some of the sophistication of the iPad to the Mac, and that’s no bad thing, particularly when, as I said above, it’s entirely optional.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

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31

On 24 Feb 2012, at 17:40, Paul Bradforth wrote:

What’s Apple’s 'adoption of the Microsoft enforcement culture? I don’t feel as though I’ve been forced into doing anything I wouldn’t have welcomed with open arms.

One thing is the switch from MobileMe (née DotMac) to iCloud.

Apparently, I can’t switch to iCloud - albeit for free - because I need to be running Lion to do it. However, if I was running a Windows PC, I could switch using XP, Vista or 7.

I’ve been holding off updating (I also disparagingly use the term “sidegrading”) to Lion because it doesn’t seem to have anything I need, and breaks some things I still use (Rosetta, for one). I don’t have an iDevice (unless you count my elderly iPod) so the UI changes might not immediately makes sense to me.

However, if I want to maintain my dotmac email address, I’m going to have to get a Lion in my tank before the end of June.

Apple, kind of forcing my hand. Upgrade, or lose stuff. My call.

Heather

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32

At 17:48 +0000 24/2/12, Heather Kavanagh wrote:

On 24 Feb 2012, at 17:40, Paul Bradforth wrote:

What’s Apple’s 'adoption of the Microsoft enforcement culture? I
don’t feel as though I’ve been forced into doing anything I
wouldn’t have welcomed with open arms.

One thing is the switch from MobileMe (née DotMac) to iCloud.

Apparently, I can’t switch to iCloud - albeit for free - because I
need to be running Lion to do it. However, if I was running a
Windows PC, I could switch using XP, Vista or 7.

I’ve been holding off updating (I also disparagingly use the term
“sidegrading”) to Lion because it doesn’t seem to have anything I
need, and breaks some things I still use (Rosetta, for one). I don’t
have an iDevice (unless you count my elderly iPod) so the UI changes
might not immediately makes sense to me.

However, if I want to maintain my dotmac email address, I’m going to
have to get a Lion in my tank before the end of June.

I’d got the impression that you will still be able to use your dotmac
address after iCloud day, but it will have to be using IMAP and not
POP. No need for Lion for that. Most of the rest goes though.

David

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33

On 24 Feb 2012, at 17:48, Heather Kavanagh wrote:

One thing is the switch from MobileMe (née DotMac) to iCloud.

Apparently, I can’t switch to iCloud - albeit for free - because I need to be running Lion to do it.

But Lion costs what, £20-30? Not free, certainly, but not far off?

I’ve been holding off updating (I also disparagingly use the term “sidegrading”) to Lion because it doesn’t seem to have anything I need, and breaks some things I still use (Rosetta, for one). I don’t have an iDevice (unless you count my elderly iPod) so the UI changes might not immediately makes sense to me.

Rosetta is, for sure, the dealbreaker, I can see that. When I upgraded to Lion, I had no PPC applications at all, so it wasn’t a problem. I don’t know the answer to that; I suppose it just boils down to the fact that we all run what we run in different ways for different reasons. I’m guessing that Freehand is one thing you don’t want to lose, and I can understand that; I could never make head nor tail of Illustrator and always found Freehand to be much friendlier. Then again, that for me was just hobby stuff; I never used either of them professionally, although I realise that you do, so it was easy for me to just ditch them both. Rightly or wrongly, the OS itself has always been my most important application, and I’ve always seen any other applications I use as being subservient to that. When OS X first came out, Photoshop wouldn’t run under it, and I managed, even as a professional photographer, to ditch that until Adobe caught up; thankfully, it didn’t take them long… I’d have been in trouble if they did.

Apple, kind of forcing my hand. Upgrade, or lose stuff. My call.

So difficult. Should we applaud Nikon for keeping their lens mount physically unchanged since the first Nikon F in 1968, or should we admire Canon for having the courage to change their lens mount out of all recognition and make almost everything better for the end-user, but at the expense of not being able to use any of their existing lenses, which could mean an expenditure of thousands of pounds?

Surely in the end though, you’re just postponing the inevitable?

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

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34

On 24 Feb 2012, at 22:59, Paul Bradforth wrote:

Surely in the end though, you’re just postponing the inevitable?

True. I have an older PPC Mac that I use as my scanner station. FreeHand runs on that. Some of the Canon camera software still needs Rosetta, but I use that software so rarely it probably isn’t an issue.

I think I will be migrating to Lion soon enough. And there I’ll have to stop until a new Mac appears in my life.

I stayed with Leopard for the longest time. The deal breaker that made me upgrade? The Mac App Store. =oD

Cheers

Heather

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35

Heather,

My wife uses an older MacBook that can’t be upgraded past Snow Leopard. She had a dotMac account, and we converted to iCloud (she also has an iPhone and an iPad). The switch was very little hassle. The only negative is that some of the Snow Leopard versions of the apps (iCal mainly, I think) don’t work as nicely with iCloud as the Lion versions. But, she can simply go to iCloud.com and manage her info there, as well as from the iPad and iPhone.

Joe

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36

On 25 Feb 2012, at 13:21, Joe Muscara wrote:

She had a dotMac account, and we converted to iCloud (she also has an iPhone and an iPad).

Hi Joe!

I understand you can migrate to iCloud with an iPad or iPhone. Neither of which I own.

How would I migrate my account without upgrading to Lion?

I’m not worried about iCal. The fact nothing will sync for me seems moot!

Cheers

Heather

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On 24 Feb 2012, at 23:05, Heather Kavanagh wrote:

I stayed with Leopard for the longest time. The deal breaker that made me upgrade? The Mac App Store. =oD

Are you saying that you liked it, and thought it a good idea, Heather?

best wishes,

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On 25 Feb 2012, at 19:02, Paul Bradforth wrote:

Are you saying that you liked it, and thought it a good idea, Heather?

I love the App Store. And it works on Snow Leopard!

=o)

Heather

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39

Hi,

sorry to raise my cynicism again, but is iCloud (cloud computing in general) and App store, really as altruistic as marketed.

My wife and I were very nearly caught up in a time share scam in Tenerife. The initial cost seemed cheap and a very convenient way to have a holiday. Luckily we talked to several couples trying to sell theirs. It seems that once you buy in, you are obliged to pay yearly maintenance escalating at an alarming rate, making a very dear holiday and something impossible to sell on except at a huge loss.

I see the buying of software from the App store and the tie-in to cloud software etc possibly, and I repeat possibly, being the thin edge of the wedge, whereupon, the vast majority of the software enabling both amateur and professional use of a computing platform, desktop, handheld or whatever, becomes server side and completely out of control of the user, both as far as usage AND cost is concerned.

I see signs in Lion and Mountain Lion of this trend.

Bob

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At 12:08 -0500 26/2/12, Bob King wrote:

Hi,

sorry to raise my cynicism again, but is iCloud (cloud computing in
general) and App store, really as altruistic as marketed.

My wife and I were very nearly caught up in a time share scam in
Tenerife. The initial cost seemed cheap and a very convenient way to
have a holiday. Luckily we talked to several couples trying to sell
theirs. It seems that once you buy in, you are obliged to pay yearly
maintenance escalating at an alarming rate, making a very dear
holiday and something impossible to sell on except at a huge loss.

I see the buying of software from the App store and the tie-in to
cloud software etc possibly, and I repeat possibly, being the thin
edge of the wedge, whereupon, the vast majority of the software
enabling both amateur and professional use of a computing platform,
desktop, handheld or whatever, becomes server side and completely
out of control of the user, both as far as usage AND cost is
concerned.

I see signs in Lion and Mountain Lion of this trend.

Whether or not Apple start charging in future, the .mac → .mobile.me
→ iCloud thing makes me very reluctant to start using any new Apple
service. It’ll probably be replaced again in a few years leaving all
the effort of adopting wasted. The Calendar/Keychain/Bookmarks etc.
syncing and the gallery worked very well for me. Now I have to find
alternative solutions.

David

–
David Ledger - Freelance Unix Sysadmin in the UK.
HP-UX specialist of hpUG technical user group (www.hpug.org.uk)
email@hidden
www.ivdcs.co.uk

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