[Pro] Freeway Alternative part 2 (Muse).

Freeway
1

Right, as soon as I’ve written this, I’m going to duck for cover!

Being and Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign user, I thought I’d give Muse a crack, as a lot of the interface is very similar.

Maybe the UI is swaying my judgement, but I’m really enjoying the learning experience - little bits of frustration combined with “HA! That’s how it works”.

From my very limited (2 days) play with it, I’m pretty sure it’s not as in depth as the the pro users (Thomas, Ernie, Walter Tim etc) could go with Freeway, however, for someone who’s main job is an illustrator who just happens to get a few sites from time to time, on the surface it seems right up my street.

Another thing that appeals to me is that I probably won’t forget how to do things because of the familiarity with the interface, and this was one of my big problems with Freeway. After a few months away from it, I could just about remember how to start a site.

I’m sure i’m missing on a out a lot of features because I’m not sure of different terminology or under which menu they may be hidden (i.e.: I can’t see how to have padding or margins on DIVS), but it’s slowly coming together in my head.

I’m now running for cover………
………Good luck everyone with whatever path you choose to follow after Apple updates itself a couple of times and Freeway can no longer take the strain. A great shame, but these things happen

Trev

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2

No need to run for cover, Softpress is gone and we’re all looking for a viable alternative!

I switched to Muse a couple of years ago and its fantastic. Yes there’s features missing but but generally its outstanding. I’ve rebuilt a couple of FW sites in it and it plays very well with Adobe’s other software.

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3

Is Muse only available as a subscription?

Todd
Office (Chicago): 312.212.3955
https://qreativ.space

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4

Yes, I think so Todd, however, it doesn’t have to be an annual contract, it can be just for a month at a time if needed.
Trev

On 25 Jul 2016, at 15:33, Todd email@hidden wrote:

Is Muse only available as a subscription?

Todd

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5

Good to hear Neil- I just know from some previous comments that there are a few Adobe haters out there.
(Runs for cover again :smiley: )
Trev

On 25 Jul 2016, at 15:31, Neil email@hidden wrote:

No need to run for cover, Softpress is gone and we’re all looking for a viable alternative!

I switched to Muse a couple of years ago and its fantastic. Yes there’s features missing but but generally its outstanding. I’ve rebuilt a couple of FW sites in it and it plays very well with Adobe’s other software.

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6

Yes, thats understandable given the subscription method. Personally I think its offers excellent value, but thats just my opinion!

Check out Muse-Themes.com as they are by far the best widget vendor, or http://resources.muse.adobe.com/ for a list of recent widgets - this will give me others an idea of its expandability.

Muse is pretty easy to learn, just different to FW. There are hundreds of tutorial videos out there on Youtube.

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7

Hi Neil, yes I’ve looked at some widgets and downloaded and used this morning, and all pretty seamless.

Just a quick question about it - have you used the In-Browser editing yet for anything, and does it work well?

Cheers
Trev

On 25 Jul 2016, at 15:49, Neil email@hidden wrote:

Yes, thats understandable given the subscription method. Personally I think its offers excellent value, but thats just my opinion!

Check out Muse-Themes.com as they are by far the best widget vendor, or http://resources.muse.adobe.com/ for a list of recent widgets - this will give me others an idea of its expandability.

Muse is pretty easy to learn, just different to FW. There are hundreds of tutorial videos out there on Youtube.

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8

Yes I’ve used IBE. One of my customers found it very useful to directly edit text within their site, although its a bit limiting overall. I wouldn’t go as far as to call its a CMS, rather a simple ‘minor edit’ tool. Adobe are always expanding its capabilities though.

I use MuseXPress CMS to offer clients a full system that can also use to offer a login / members area on your site. Its a pain in the arse to setup though. Muse-Themes has its own CMS coming soon so very much looking forward to that.

Regarding widgets, be very careful what you use together. You’ll often find one vendors widget clash with another. Even Muse-themes offers advice on a clashes between a number of its own widgets. And on a personally level I wouldn’t use Qooqee as their widget licence is just plain bonkers.

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9

Excellent, thanks for the info Neil.

On 25 Jul 2016, at 16:00, Neil email@hidden wrote:

Yes I’ve used IBE. One of my customers found it very useful to directly edit text within their site, although its a bit limiting overall. I wouldn’t go as far as to call its a CMS, rather a simple ‘minor edit’ tool. Adobe are always expanding its capabilities though.

I use MuseXPress CMS to offer clients a full system that can also use to offer a login / members area on your site. Its a pain in the arse to setup though. Muse-Themes has its own CMS coming soon so very much looking forward to that.

Regarding widgets, be very careful what you use together. You’ll often find one vendors widget clash with another. Even Muse-themes offers advice on a clashes between a number of its own widgets. And on a personally level I wouldn’t use Qooqee as their widget licence is just plain bonkers.

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10

As promised my point to Adobe Muse,…

There are some interesting web applications out there and I don`t like to convince someone here, I rather like to share my experience. Everybody has different needs and so are the applications. I have checked F o u n d a t i o n F r a m e r of Coffee Cups and A d o b e M u s e for some days now. The first has simply not the right chemistry (for me), but Muse has its convincing points.

I am truly not fan of paying each month though, but the advantages seem to outnumber the disadvantages. I rely on my business and it must go on as quickly and with minimum of extra time as possible. So I am willing to pay more in order to get a well thought out application, which allows good workflows and a stable future. (Many of my FW clients websites are not yet responsive, so they have to be build / paid new anyway if clients wish so - no matter which application. )

My background:

In my office (web and print) I work with Adobe Illustrator as main tool and the workflow between Illustrator and Muse are excellent, it has been much improved in the last update.
(Export svg, you can even import .ai files in Muse and change them in AI, which is great. True for PS).

Also the tools of making resonsive design, adapting design in smaller breakpoints seems to me surprisingly easy (They have updated Muse recently with some solid tools) .And main point: I feel much MORE FREE in DESIGN than in FW 7, which is great! There are „ widgets“, kind of actions: some free, some paid, which allow to extend the sites (without coding). Muse is not yet perfect though ;)!

I still become acquainted with Muse and to be honest I don`t know at this stage, if these who love to use a CMS and external code will be happy…
For now here are my points:
Very good learning material, videos, tutorials
surprisingly low learning curve if you are used to PS or AI (intuitive handling)
constantly improving / updates
a well thought out application (sorry no time to explain all I have discovered….)
Familiar tools: Master pages, easy creating different breakpoints and adapting its design, easy creating styles, …easy defining of single items behavior (width,height behaviour, scale to browser width, positioning in browser or page,…), integration of fonts/webfonts,…
a lot of external resources to extend websites, just found an „action“ that allows me to use all these nice css transitions easily at items
I would love to be in contact with other Muse-Newbies, just to share and exchange.
Please contact me, if you are interested in exchange.

Hanna

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11

In addition to Hanna’s short review, I would like to know if someone has
used a stable CMS with Muse? They offer Adobe’s Business Catalyst for
inbrowser editing, but… As I’m told when I update the site from my own
workspace with FTP, the edited material will be overwritten.

Muse-themes.com got stucked with their promising ‘Agent’… and will take
some time before release. Sad.
There’s MuseXPress CMS, a combination of Muse and Wordpress.
And Publiz, anyone experience with Publiz?
And I was wondering if Pulse could be a solution? Max’s WepYep for Muse?

@Neil what is IBE?

And my opinion about a Muse subscription… If you use the software in a
professional way, is 4 euro a week a problem then?
I paid in the past each year a fortune for updates of Photoshop,
Illustrator, Acrobat, Indesign (or Xpress)… I pay now 50 euros per month
and got 23 programs in my box. Up to date.

cheers

2016-07-25 17:14 GMT+02:00 star-lights email@hidden:

As promised my point to Adobe Muse,…

There are some interesting web applications out there and I don`t like to
convince someone here, I rather like to share my experience. Everybody has
different needs and so are the applications. I have checked F o u n d a t i
o n F r a m e r of Coffee Cups and A d o b e M u s e for some days now.
The first has simply not the right chemistry (for me), but Muse has its
convincing points.

I am truly not fan of paying each month though, but the advantages seem to
outnumber the disadvantages. I rely on my business and it must go on as
quickly and with minimum of extra time as possible. So I am willing to pay
more in order to get a well thought out application, which allows good
workflows and a stable future. (Many of my FW clients websites are not yet
responsive, so they have to be build / paid new anyway if clients wish so -
no matter which application. )

My background:

In my office (web and print) I work with Adobe Illustrator as main tool
and the workflow between Illustrator and Muse are excellent, it has been
much improved in the last update.
(Export svg, you can even import .ai files in Muse and change them in AI,
which is great. True for PS).

Also the tools of making resonsive design, adapting design in smaller
breakpoints seems to me surprisingly easy (They have updated Muse recently
with some solid tools) .And main point: I feel much MORE FREE in DESIGN
than in FW 7, which is great! There are „ widgets“, kind of actions: some
free, some paid, which allow to extend the sites (without coding). Muse is
not yet perfect though ;)!

I still become acquainted with Muse and to be honest I don`t know at this
stage, if these who love to use a CMS and external code will be happy…
For now here are my points:
Very good learning material, videos, tutorials
surprisingly low learning curve if you are used to PS or AI (intuitive
handling)
constantly improving / updates
a well thought out application (sorry no time to explain all I have
discovered….)
Familiar tools: Master pages, easy creating different breakpoints and
adapting its design, easy creating styles, …easy defining of single items
behavior (width,height behaviour, scale to browser width, positioning in
browser or page,…), integration of fonts/webfonts,…
a lot of external resources to extend websites, just found an „action“
that allows me to use all these nice css transitions easily at items
I would love to be in contact with other Muse-Newbies, just to share and
exchange.
Please contact me, if you are interested in exchange.

Hanna

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12

Here, here Trev, I find Muse to be very enjoyable to use, dare I say it, far more enjoyable than FW ever was. There is so much more one can do with it, I’m currently upgrading/redesigning a client’s website that I did in FW a few years ago and was amazed at how far I’ve grown since changing to Muse for most of the websites that work on. This is the only site left that I had in FW. I really love the amount of undo’s, the auto-save/recover if for some reason I need to do a force restart on my Mac and there are so many widgets available, some paid (at low cost) and free available. On the other side there isn’t the FW community of FWtalk, but there is plenty of help available if needed and there are many videos on YouTube. Plus there are regular Muse Jam sessions for learning different things.

Elizabeth

On 25 Jul 2016, at 11:57 PM, Trevreav email@hidden wrote:

Right, as soon as I’ve written this, I’m going to duck for cover!

Being and Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign user, I thought I’d give Muse a crack, as a lot of the interface is very similar.

Maybe the UI is swaying my judgement, but I’m really enjoying the learning experience - little bits of frustration combined with “HA! That’s how it works”.

From my very limited (2 days) play with it, I’m pretty sure it’s not as in depth as the the pro users (Thomas, Ernie, Walter Tim etc) could go with Freeway, however, for someone who’s main job is an illustrator who just happens to get a few sites from time to time, on the surface it seems right up my street.

Another thing that appeals to me is that I probably won’t forget how to do things because of the familiarity with the interface, and this was one of my big problems with Freeway. After a few months away from it, I could just about remember how to start a site.

I’m sure i’m missing on a out a lot of features because I’m not sure of different terminology or under which menu they may be hidden (i.e.: I can’t see how to have padding or margins on DIVS), but it’s slowly coming together in my head.

I’m now running for cover………
………Good luck everyone with whatever path you choose to follow after Apple updates itself a couple of times and Freeway can no longer take the strain. A great shame, but these things happen

Trev

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13

Another good thing about Adobe Muse is that you can set up temporary sites on business catalyst, at no charge, which is rather useful for client proofing and comments. Just the other day this come to the fore when discussing some elements on pages on a website with a client before their meeting with colleagues.

Elizabeth

On 26 Jul 2016, at 9:04 AM, Elizabeth email@hidden wrote:

Here, here Trev, I find Muse to be very enjoyable to use, dare I say it, far more enjoyable than FW ever was. There is so much more one can do with it, I’m currently upgrading/redesigning a client’s website that I did in FW a few years ago and was amazed at how far I’ve grown since changing to Muse for most of the websites that work on. This is the only site left that I had in FW. I really love the amount of undo’s, the auto-save/recover if for some reason I need to do a force restart on my Mac and there are so many widgets available, some paid (at low cost) and free available. On the other side there isn’t the FW community of FWtalk, but there is plenty of help available if needed and there are many videos on YouTube. Plus there are regular Muse Jam sessions for learning different things.

Elizabeth

On 25 Jul 2016, at 11:57 PM, Trevreav email@hidden wrote:

Right, as soon as I’ve written this, I’m going to duck for cover!

Being and Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign user, I thought I’d give Muse a crack, as a lot of the interface is very similar.

Maybe the UI is swaying my judgement, but I’m really enjoying the learning experience - little bits of frustration combined with “HA! That’s how it works”.

From my very limited (2 days) play with it, I’m pretty sure it’s not as in depth as the the pro users (Thomas, Ernie, Walter Tim etc) could go with Freeway, however, for someone who’s main job is an illustrator who just happens to get a few sites from time to time, on the surface it seems right up my street.

Another thing that appeals to me is that I probably won’t forget how to do things because of the familiarity with the interface, and this was one of my big problems with Freeway. After a few months away from it, I could just about remember how to start a site.

I’m sure i’m missing on a out a lot of features because I’m not sure of different terminology or under which menu they may be hidden (i.e.: I can’t see how to have padding or margins on DIVS), but it’s slowly coming together in my head.

I’m now running for cover………
………Good luck everyone with whatever path you choose to follow after Apple updates itself a couple of times and Freeway can no longer take the strain. A great shame, but these things happen

Trev

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14

Hi Neil, your infos about Muse are very useful. Thank you. I already thought that using different external „widgets“ could be a problem. Before I start with trial and error, I better ask if there are infos/hints out there, which widgets match best. Can you recommend one or more resource(s)?
I came across muse-themes, what do you think?

Another matter, the build in forms, lights boxes, combination elements (how are these called?),… in Muse are not yet „truly“ responsive (you must change their design at every breakpoint), which I find quite poor. I would have expected that they are further developed. Perhaps they will soon? I have found some external resources/widgets that are though….

When even Adobe as very big business is just about to provide more and more „responsive details“ finally now in Muse, than I must say that Softpress with FW has made an excellent job! Interesting.

Great to share some matters about Muse here!

Thank you,
Hanna

"Regarding widgets, be very careful what you use together. You’ll often find one vendors widget clash with another. Even Muse-themes offers advice on a clashes between a number of its own widgets. And on a personally level I wouldn’t use Qooqee as their widget licence is just plain bonkers. "

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15

There are quite a few widgets already included in Muse, forms, menus, slideshows, etc, you don’t have to get widgets from elsewhere, but there are several suppliers that make a large variety.

On 26 Jul 2016, at 3:09 PM, star-lights email@hidden wrote:

Hi Neil, your infos about Muse are very useful. Thank you. I already thought that using different external „widgets“ could be a problem. Before I start with trial and error, I better ask if there are infos/hints out there, which widgets match best. Can you recommend one or more resource(s)?
I came across muse-themes, what do you think?

Another matter, the build in forms, lights boxes, combination elements (how are these called?),… in Muse are not yet „truly“ responsive (you must change their design at every breakpoint), which I find quite poor. I would have expected that they are further developed. Perhaps they will soon? I have found some external resources/widgets that are though….

When even Adobe as very big business is just about to provide more and more „responsive details“ finally now in Muse, than I must say that Softpress with FW has made an excellent job! Interesting.

Great to share some matters about Muse here!

Thank you,
Hanna

"Regarding widgets, be very careful what you use together. You’ll often find one vendors widget clash with another. Even Muse-themes offers advice on a clashes between a number of its own widgets. And on a personally level I wouldn’t use Qooqee as their widget licence is just plain bonkers. "

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16

Yes, I know Elizabeth,… I have found them a bit clumsy, but maybe it is my shortcoming….

There are quite a few widgets already included in Muse, forms, menus, slideshows, etc, you don’t have to get widgets from elsewhere, but there are several suppliers that make a large variety.

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17

interesting, I wonder why, the are so easy to use and style in any way.

On 26 Jul 2016, at 4:04 PM, star-lights email@hidden wrote:

Yes, I know Elizabeth,… I have found them a bit clumsy, but maybe it is my shortcoming….

There are quite a few widgets already included in Muse, forms, menus, slideshows, etc, you don’t have to get widgets from elsewhere, but there are several suppliers that make a large variety.

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18

I will surly get the hang on it soon, I am just a beginner and must get used to it :wink:

interesting, I wonder why, the are so easy to use and style in any way.

Yes, I know Elizabeth,… I have found them a bit clumsy, but maybe it is my shortcoming….

There are quite a few widgets already included in Muse, forms, menus, slideshows, etc, you don’t have to get widgets from elsewhere, but there are several suppliers that make a large variety.

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19

To answer a few questions:

IBE is In Browser Editing.

A clients amendments to their site via IBE are NOT overwritten when you upload your site again via Muse. Muse and IBE are synced automatically everytime you open a Muse job - Muse asks if you’d like to accept the clients changes and walks you though what they are.

I’d recommend Muse Themes as a main widget supplier. I wouldn’t recommend QooQee or 123Muse.com, from experience.

Some widgets from a few vendors just plainly don’t work, so be careful where you purchase from. Some vendors are pretty poor at customer service too. But generally most widgets/vendors are excellent.

You are correct that a large number of Muse’s built in widgets are not responsive yet. They are working through them at the moment and will no doubt be updated soon. Muse is developing at breakneck speed at the moment with new features every few months (or every few weeks in you sign up to the Muse beta).

Regarding a dedicated CMS, I’ll await Agent from Muse-Themes, given the quality of their support and widgets to date. I’ve used MuseXpress but its not quite there yet in terms of bugs although its VERY powerful.

For anyone interested, here’s my own site that’s in beta. I know lots of things don’t work yet and its far from tested but its a start!

http://connectcreative301.businesscatalyst.com/index.html

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20

Neil, I know that Business Catalyst isn’t very high end or sohisticated as
other CMS, but I can set up a site in Muse, let my client check the whole
stuff, finish it and upload the site online.
But if there are new changes in text or images, I still can upload the site
again to BC, let my client do the changes and put it back online after a
final check?

Or are there restrictments?

I’ll wait for Agent too, it will appear as several modules I’ve been told
but it can take a while.

Muse-themes is a good company too with nice widgets.

thnx, Andries

2016-07-26 12:45 GMT+02:00 Neil email@hidden:

To answer a few questions:

IBE is In Browser Editing.

A clients amendments to their site via IBE are NOT overwritten when you
upload your site again via Muse. Muse and IBE are synced automatically
everytime you open a Muse job - Muse asks if you’d like to accept the
clients changes and walks you though what they are.

I’d recommend Muse Themes as a main widget supplier. I wouldn’t recommend
QooQee or 123Muse.com, from experience.

Some widgets from a few vendors just plainly don’t work, so be careful
where you purchase from. Some vendors are pretty poor at customer service
too. But generally most widgets/vendors are excellent.

You are correct that a large number of Muse’s built in widgets are not
responsive yet. They are working through them at the moment and will no
doubt be updated soon. Muse is developing at breakneck speed at the moment
with new features every few months (or every few weeks in you sign up to
the Muse beta).

Regarding a dedicated CMS, I’ll await Agent from Muse-Themes, given the
quality of their support and widgets to date. I’ve used MuseXpress but its
not quite there yet in terms of bugs although its VERY powerful.

For anyone interested, here’s my own site that’s in beta. I know lots of
things don’t work yet and its far from tested but its a start!

http://connectcreative301.businesscatalyst.com/index.html

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