Just dropped by to see if anyone was having problems with High Sierra.
For the record Freeway Pro 7.1.4 is behaving nicely with High Sierra! Can import images with no problems.
Hope this is resolved for you all!
Steve
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Hi Paul and others,
The problems with the Import dialog are depressingly familiar. Apple regularly break file dialogs for Carbon programs with every new system. They fixed these problems in a pre-release version of El Capitan, and in a post-release version of Sierra, so my hope is that they will also fix them in a future version of High Sierra. But they will only do this if enough people report problems by filing bugs in their bug reporter. The more bug reports the better, because Apple take more notice of bugs that are widely reported.
These problems won’t occur in Cocoa programs, and they won’t necessarily occur in all Carbon programs. Freeway is using (legitimate) Carbon APIs to add extra controls to the Import dialog, but Carbon programs which use vanilla dialogs probably won’t have the same problems. If you can find other Carbon programs that use extended file dialogs and have similar problems, it would be worth including information about this in bug reports.
I’m not using High Sierra, because I’m following my usual policy of giving Apple time to fix some of their bugs. If Apple don’t fix the file dialog bugs, I can think of ways to rewrite parts of Freeway that are affected. But I don’t know that I would be paid for doing this, so it’s not something that I’m planning to do in a hurry - particularly since Apple might fix the problem in a future update to High Sierra. I have a personal interest in Freeway, since I worked on it for many years, and I also have an ongoing association with Softpress, since they have published my music program (Fretspace) - but I’m no longer employed by Softpress. My plan for Fretspace is to make enough money to fund future development, including a new version of Freeway - which I have started working on, but which is a pretty major task.
As far as the current version of Freeway is concerned, there will come a time when it will no longer run on the latest (future) version of macOS. Apple have said that they will be dropping support for 32-bit applications in a future system and that High Sierra is the last system that will have “full” support for 32-bit apps. Freeway is a 32-bit app because it is a Carbon app. Apple created a 64-bit version of Carbon some years ago, but axed it because they decided - perhaps reasonably from their perspective - that they didn’t want to continue supporting two separate development frameworks (Carbon and Cocoa).
Personally, I think it’s always sensible to delay upgrading to the latest version of macOS until Apple have had time to fix bugs, but it’s not a good idea to get stuck on an old system that is no longer being supported with security updates etc. Apple normally support the current system and the previous system (and maybe the system before that) but they don’t support older systems. One way around this problem, which is popular with developers, is to use virtual systems (VMWare or Parallels) to run older systems - including systems that cannot otherwise be run on the latest hardware.
As to why Apple keep breaking Carbon file dialogs, I think that this is because they decided some years ago that they would rewrite these dialogs so that they call through to Cocoa APIs, and my suspicion is that they used private Cocoa APIs rather than public Cocoa APIs. Third-party developers are warned against using private APIs because they are not stable (in the sense that they could change in future versions of macOS), and any use of private APIs will automatically cause an application to be rejected from the App store. But Apple can use private APIs, because they wrote them and they can test their own software for problems that arise when these APIs are changed. The problem for Carbon is that it is deprecated, so Apple doesn’t devote much resource to testing it.
Jeremy
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Thanks, Jeremy. I installed High Sierra on my MBP to see what the impact will be. The main production machine won’t get the update for a while.
FWIW, Adobe, Wacom and others have yet to issue High Sierra compatibility updates, so Illustrator and Photoshop users may well be high and dry if they update (or buy a new machine).
Clearly, the 64-bit cut off means that looking at setting up a virtual machine is a good idea. I do have my previous MBP, permanently stuck on 10.7.5. Just in case…
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@Jeremy Hughes Yes, the last 2 or 3 versions of OSX/macOS have had these issues, but they have been resolved in the public release. Not this time!
Also, wrt BRs, I have BRed this till I am blue in the face (almost!) over the last few months, and all I have received is a ‘Duplicate will be closed’ response, as well 'as ‘This issue has been fixed’. Needless to say, I was quick to point out that it has not!
Now, what I don’t understand here, is why most people are reporting having this issue, but some are not experiencing it. Why would that beI if Apple have tinkered with the Carbon file dialogues (again!), then you would expect everyone to have the issue.
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Hi Iain,
On 2 Oct 2017, at 17:35, Iain Mackenzie email@hidden wrote:
@Jeremy Hughes Yes, the last 2 or 3 versions of OSX/macOS have had these issues, but they have been resolved in the public release. Not this time!
Not last time either. The problems in Sierra weren’t fixed until 10.12.12, as you reported in a previous message to this list (13 Dec 2016):
“OK guys, now that 10.12.2 has been released, hopefully you will all be happy that the issues we have talked about, here and elsewhere, have all disappeared!”
Also, wrt BRs, I have BRed this till I am blue in the face (almost!) over the last few months, and all I have received is a ‘Duplicate will be closed’ response, as well 'as ‘This issue has been fixed’. Needless to say, I was quick to point out that it has not!
Thanks for doing this. It doesn’t matter if a bug report is marked as a duplicate, because Apple keep track of how many times a bug has been reported and use that information to decide which bugs they should prioritise. It’s certainly helpful if you point out that a bug hasn’t been fixed when they claim that it has.
Jeremy
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Hi Jeremy,
Thanks for that. My memory is clearly fading fast. I was sure it was fixed in the first release!
Why do you think some people are not seeing this issue?
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Hi Iain,
On 2 Oct 2017, at 18:05, Iain Mackenzie email@hidden wrote:
Why do you think some people are not seeing this issue?
I don’t know. Maybe there is a hardware difference (graphics processor?) or some other difference in how their system is configured.
Jeremy
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Just been testing the freeway and 10.13 and its working fine, even the import, so I am assuming its a hardware as well as software related issue and I have a configuration that is not effected.
just for the record this is not a retina mac, so has any one checked to see if that the problem?
max
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max, that’s quite possible. I have a late 2015 27" retina iMac. What about others with the issue?
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I don’t have this issue, and I’m running a base model late 2013 rMBP. Graphics are Intel Iris 1536 MB.
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Just to be clear: most people are running the latest upgrades of Sierra with the latest Freeway without issues?
Greg LeRoy
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On Oct 3, 2017, at 12:27 PM, Caleb Grove email@hidden wrote:
I don’t have this issue, and I’m running a base model late 2013 rMBP. Graphics are Intel Iris 1536 MB.
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Mine is a retina Mac and I seem to recall that last year’s issue also related to them. Do they use different graphics cards or drivers? I’ve got a Radeon Pro 580.
All the best
Gordon
http://www.gordonlow.net/
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On 3 Oct 2017, 6:22 pm, Greg LeRoy wrote:
Just to be clear: most people are running the latest upgrades of Sierra with the latest Freeway without issues?
I presume you mean High Sierra.
Seems about 50/50 of the people who have post here and elsewhere.
I wonder if it is a retina iMac thing. Does anyone with the problem NOT have a retina iMac?
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My apologies for the confusion.
I wanted to know if generally everyone is having success with latest version of Freeway while using the latest combo update of just Sierra (not high Sierra).
I wasted three hours trying to get El Capitan on VMFusion to work with Freeway, with no reliable success. I don’t want to try that again, but as I only have one MAC and dozens of apps, I also don’t want to upgrade from El Capitan to Sierra unless the general consensus is that it is likely to work.
Currently my machine is flawless with El Capitan & Freeway, but I do like to keep relatively current.
As I don’t follow this list faithfully I was hoping to get a consensus opinion whether it’s safe to upgrade to Sierra.
TIA
greg
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On Oct 3, 2017, at 1:54 PM, Iain Mackenzie email@hidden wrote:
On 3 Oct 2017, 6:22 pm, Greg LeRoy wrote:
Just to be clear: most people are running the latest upgrades of Sierra with the latest Freeway without issues?
I presume you mean High Sierra.
Seems about 50/50 of the people who have post here and elsewhere.
I wonder if it is a retina iMac thing. Does anyone with the problem NOT have a retina iMac?
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Greg,
I had no problems at all with Sierra current build. In fact, I have to use it in a VM to allow to have a functioning Freeway!
I haven’t heard of anyone else reporting any issues either in the later builds.
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Thanks so much for the response, Ian.
On Oct 3, 2017, at 2:20 PM, Iain Mackenzie email@hidden wrote:
Greg,
I had no problems at all with Sierra current build. In fact, I have to use it in a VM to allow to have a functioning Freeway!
I haven’t heard of anyone else reporting any issues either in the later builds.
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Sierra never cause any issues for me.
Now Freeway has an issue on High Sierra as mentioned where the lower part of the window when importing media blacks out. That’s about it. Oh, and Adobe CS6 didn’t survive the upgrade. But that’s fine with me … I bought myself copies of Affinity Designer and Photo. Still hoping for Affinity Publisher to arrive as well.
There’s plenty of really good and reliable software out there that won’t rob you from you’re last penny …
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Richard,
Freeway had issues with Sierra in the first couple of dot releases, and yes, Affinity Publisher is still scheduled for beta release this year.
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I’ve been using Photoshop CS6 in High Sierra and so far haven’t come across any problems. InDesign and Illustrator also fire up fine but I haven’t had a chance to do much with them so far. I agree that going down the Affinity route in the future is most likely the best option as I’m not prepared to ‘rent’ software.
All the best
Gordon
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On 3 Oct 2017, at 10:03pm, Richard van Heukelum email@hidden wrote:
Sierra never cause any issues for me.
Now Freeway has an issue on High Sierra as mentioned where the lower part of the window when importing media blacks out. That’s about it. Oh, and Adobe CS6 didn’t survive the upgrade. But that’s fine with me … I bought myself copies of Affinity Designer and Photo. Still hoping for Affinity Publisher to arrive as well.
There’s plenty of really good and reliable software out there that won’t rob you from you’re last penny …
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On 4 Oct 2017, 8:58 am, Gordon Low wrote:
I agree that going down the Affinity route in the future is most likely the best option as I’m not prepared to ‘rent’ software.
Yep, I uninstalled all CS products about 18 months ago in favour of Affinity products, and have never regretted it for 1 second!
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