I know this sounds odd but why does it have to end, on a technical level the application still works…. actually it works REALLY REALLY WELL it recently won a third place ahead of rapid weaver and just behind Adobe MUSE… that doesn’t sound like an application which is no good. Yes, it’s looking dated but that doesn’t mean it’s no good.
Some facts:
Theres nothing Like freeway… if you can point me to an application then I am all ears but I’ve done a massive amount of research and in my opinion nothing is like it
There is a big following and a lot of us know how to push it way beyond its original specification
Decades of development have meant that there is hundreds of actions.
it works on relatively old macs and new macs which cant be said of other applications
The quality of this forum is beyond anything else you will find
The latest version can be expanded via actions to output more and more advanced html output.
It looks like version fw7 works in the next generation of mac operating system
So why cant we see if there is a way forward…why not ?
Personally if softpress needed a real commitment to ongoing income then why cant we go over to a subscription
I pay yearly for 5 bits of software and I never think it’s a bad method. The upside is the yearly cost is relatively small compared to a whopping amount every 2 or 3 years and I know that the company thats creating the software has a proper income stream
If softpress needs support right now so then why can’t the community step in and fundraise I am absolutely willing to commit money towards what I see as an excellent application that should not be allowed to just fade away, like so many other applications that have in the past.
Commercially the software may not be a great revenue creator but I cant believe the application cant be made to be viable at any level… even if development was just throttled back to improving what’s there rather than adding more functionality. Things like what the UI looks like means very little to me. I can live with the way css is adding more than 1 cmd-z is actually not that important, whats important is what the application can produce… and what it spits out is very good.
These are just my thoughts and in reality there is little time to do very much about it. So if we want to save the application, company & developers all of whom have created something that is unique, then the community needs to step in and act quickly if we are going to change the design that softpress has had to make.
SO who’s with me or am i just farting in the wind :o)
max
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Thanks to everyone thats replied so far…. but it all comes down to numbers…
I remember Macaw had a Kickstart pledge of $275,929 from 2,752 backers and that got them going… so if its feasible then we would need a commitment from 1000 + people (probably more like 2000+) and that commitment would probably be at least 10 pound a month or 120 pound a year and even then thats a turn over of only £120,000 and for a company thats not much to live on… especially when you take out wages tax , etc.
So now you see what I mean by the numbers of people required and scaling development down, so only work that actually needs to be done to keep the application going could be tackled. I don’t know how many people use Freeway so I cant tell even if thats feasible, but if it is and the numbers of users that are available and are actualy ready and willing are there, and not forgetting most importantly Softpress would need to change its decision, then it’s a possible way forward.
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I know this sounds odd but why does it have to end, on a technical level the application still works…. actually it works REALLY REALLY WELL it recently won a third place ahead of rapid weaver and just behind Adobe MUSE… that doesn’t sound like an application which is no good. Yes, it’s looking dated but that doesn’t mean it’s no good.
So why cant we see if there is a way forward…why not ?
Personally if softpress needed a real commitment to ongoing income then why cant we go over to a subscription
I pay yearly for 5 bits of software and I never think it’s a bad method. The upside is the yearly cost is relatively small compared to a whopping amount every 2 or 3 years and I know that the company thats creating the software has a proper income stream
We don’t know that the problem is money.
As I see it a more likely problem is that FW helps you design web pages and it ‘magically’ converts them to that nicely structured, predictable ‘language’ called HTML. What is now needed is something that does that, plus generate that unstructured unpredictable heap called CSS.
With HTML you can learn the basics and predict a lot more; with CSS you have to learn how to handle each bit. Writing a program to produce HTML from a design is hard but do-able - Softpress has done it well. CSS would be much harder to generate from a design programatically because there are so many one-off attributes that only apply in one situation. The HTML concept came from one person; CSS came from a committee, and we know what to expect from that.
My suspicion is that SP knows it needs to do more with CSS but doesn’t know to fit it into the FW model. I also suspect that it can’t be done in a reasonable number of years. Maybe a matter of get out while ahead.
I learned the basic of HTML in hours back in '94. I’ve looked at some CSS (not a lot), and although it’s easy to work out how to write it, knowing what to write is not easy.
It would also depend on whether Softpress voluntarily closed down or if it was a decision made by a third party and out of their control. There is surely value attached to the “assets” so maybe another company may be interested in keeping Freeway along with Exhibio and Chroma going or taking Softpress over as a going concern?
Gordon
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Hi David
Joe wrote in his announcement that current revenue and new product development were insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity. Thats says to me the income is being outstripped by outgoings. So based on that I don’t actually think its because modern css is causing problems. New CSS development and advancement take-up has been painfully slow in the browser industry so I don’t see that being specifically a freeway problem which Freeway cant handle. Oddly enough because we have the extended button we can circumnavigate any lack of direct control via the interface which is a lot more than other programs can do.
So I think it probably comes down to the famine or feast scenario of an applications cycle… eg note much money coming in whilst people wait for the next paid upgrade… and thats why I am suggesting a subscription regardless if there is any major advancement or not
So coming back to my thoughts…" is this a viable solution"… then I think with enough of the community behind it then it could be. Even if Softpress was forced to close doesn’t mean that the people behind it or this great application should just disappear.
Max
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Hi David
Joe wrote in his announcement that current revenue and new product development were insufficient to sustain the company as a viable entity. Thats says to me the income is being outstripped by outgoings. So based on that I don’t actually think its because modern css is causing problems. New CSS development and advancement take-up has been painfully slow in the browser industry so I don’t see that being specifically a freeway problem which Freeway cant handle. Oddly enough because we have the extended button we can circumnavigate any lack of direct control via the interface which is a lot more than other programs can do.
So I think it probably comes down to the famine or feast scenario of an applications cycle… eg note much money coming in whilst people wait for the next paid upgrade… and thats why I am suggesting a subscription regardless if there is any major advancement or not
So coming back to my thoughts…" is this a viable solution"… then I think with enough of the community behind it then it could be. Even if Softpress was forced to close doesn’t mean that the people behind it or this great application should just disappear.
Max
“new product development” would be CSS. That’s at the base level of what people complain about. They don’t have sufficient income to develop the total new architecture that would ‘do’ CSS - the next stage of product needed for the next (or advanced current) state of web design. If you could finance them for several years, without a FW update, then it may be possible for them to produce a totally new application to ‘do’ CSS, but it wouldn’t be FW. If you’ve never written, or been involved in the writing, of serious software you wouldn’t understand what they have said they needed to do over the years.
HI David so what your suggesting is that freeway doesn’t ‘do’ css or not to a standard that makes it viable going forward… is that what you are saying ?
max
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HI David so what your suggesting is that freeway doesn’t ‘do’ css or not to a standard that makes it viable going forward… is that what you are saying ?
max
From the messages on this list it doesn’t ‘do’ CSS to the extent that it needs to. That is without knowing CSS well enough to work out the extended incantations required to get what you want.
Ok David now I understand what you were getting at… so yes I agree within the native interface there are css gaps and yes if you know 0 percent of css and you want to explore more of the modern css techniques then at best you would be required to read from an example and paste the css code into the extended areas. But that still doesn’t mean the softwares no good, its just clunky and depending on each persons willingness to understand more about css then that will drive what they can do with it.
So with that in mind then I am still fairly confident there is a future for Freeway as an application.
At the moment everyone is in limbo about what to do… whether to try and find something else or see if something will come out of the ashes and all I’m trying to do is see if there is a collective willingness to do something about it.
But if there is a way forward then some sort of two way conversation from anyone at softpress will be required… Does anyone else have any information? Does anyone have there number? is the office even open anymore or is it more like the Mary Celeste with no one on board?
Max
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I have been a user of FWP for a number of years and i like many many others was shocked to here the news recently.
I moved from iweb when i went “under” and started to feel very comfortable with the FWP especially with the help of people on this forum and the efforts of Caleb with Backdraft.
Sad Sad Sad day indeed. Like others on this thread not a big fan of subscription software, but like others will be prepared to chip in to keep this product alive and well.
Max,
The number quoted for Softpress is +441865 522252 i have used it once last year and got straight through to Joe
Very good luck with the call
John
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I will wait until tomorrow to see if any one from Softpress has time to respond via this forum or through the emails I have been sending if not I will see if any ones around
thanks again max
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I concur! I would be willing to do a subscription model even though I hate it. FW is worth it! Another question I have is what will happen to this forum now that FW is shutting down? I assume many of us will continue using the software in the near future and this forum is critical!
Doty
On 5 Jul 2016, 10:47 pm, DeltaDave wrote:
Personally I deplore the Subscription Software ethos - however in the case of the survival of FW I would make an exception.
But until we know more from Joe/Softpress about whether that would be an option we can only speculate.
I am quite sure that he/they have considered all options and I hope that if this was one Joe would tell us.