Web site reviews

OK,
I have fixed most of your suggestions…

Dave, the newsletter is not mine. But I will play with it…and see
what I can fix.

Any other critiques… I am open for them…

Thank you!

http:///www.grassrootsweb.net/tlc

Julie
On Oct 22, 2009, at 8:06 PM, DeltaDave wrote:

Another point - about your Newsletter.

It appears that when you constructed these pages you did not allow
correctly for the margins and as a result the right hand side of all
the text has been truncated in the PDF.

Also a first line indent looks very strange on paras with only 2
lines.

http://www.grassrootsweb.net/tlc/Resources/Oct..%2009.pdf

D


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

Looking a lot better, Julie.

Are you happy with it?

Bob


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

Thank you

I am I am concerned about the text zooming… as Paul brought up…

But for my first real site (except mine… which now I’ll work on) I
think its pretty good.

Julie
On Oct 22, 2009, at 9:57 PM, Robert B wrote:

Looking a lot better, Julie.

Are you happy with it?

Bob


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

SO, now that I have listened to all…
Paul, I really did - but cant fix the text zoom issue right now… I
am working on learning the tables etc… to do this.

what do y’all think?
Thank you so much for all of your honesty etc…

Julie
On Oct 22, 2009, at 9:57 PM, Robert B wrote:

Looking a lot better, Julie.

Are you happy with it?

Bob


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

On 23 Oct 2009, at 14:08, julie maxwell allen wrote:

SO, now that I have listened to all…
Paul, I really did - but cant fix the text zoom issue right now… I
am working on learning the tables etc… to do this.

Julie, if you’re going to spend time learning something, I’d say it
was better to learn to use the Box model rather than tables. If you
already knew how to use tables, I’d say go ahead, but if you’re
starting from scratch, you’d be better off learning to use what’s more
popular these days.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

Thats what I was thinking… blanking on the words… TY

so does the site feel / look better?

Thank you Paul

On Oct 23, 2009, at 9:35 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 23 Oct 2009, at 14:08, julie maxwell allen wrote:

SO, now that I have listened to all…
Paul, I really did - but cant fix the text zoom issue right now…
I am working on learning the tables etc… to do this.

Julie, if you’re going to spend time learning something, I’d say it
was better to learn to use the Box model rather than tables. If you
already knew how to use tables, I’d say go ahead, but if you’re
starting from scratch, you’d be better off learning to use what’s
more popular these days.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

I need sites - even simple one to learn and grow.

Julie
On Oct 23, 2009, at 9:35 AM, Paul Bradforth wrote:

On 23 Oct 2009, at 14:08, julie maxwell allen wrote:

SO, now that I have listened to all…
Paul, I really did - but cant fix the text zoom issue right now…
I am working on learning the tables etc… to do this.

Julie, if you’re going to spend time learning something, I’d say it
was better to learn to use the Box model rather than tables. If you
already knew how to use tables, I’d say go ahead, but if you’re
starting from scratch, you’d be better off learning to use what’s
more popular these days.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

Sometime around 22/10/09 (at 18:05 +0100) Paul Bradforth said:

I’ll stick my neck out and risk the disagreement of the forum here,
and say that the only thing that should ever be centred is a
restaurant menu, and I have my doubts about that.

You, me and Jan Tschichold. :slight_smile:

Julie, the biggest problems with your designs come from having no
underlying grid structure to help you place and align things
consistently. You should set up a grid (not arbitrarily) on your
master page so it appears on every page in your site, then use that
grid to help you achieve two important things:

(a) Placing things consistently
(b) Arranging things so they relate to each other in visually logical ways

but the rest is all left aligned. (and I double checked that before
I wrote this)

The ‘About Us’ page text is now left-aligned; it wasn’t just now though.

The address on that page is still centered. Also, the graphic-text
titles in the Forms and various Programs pages are centered.

http://danjasker.blogspot.com/2008/07/fw5-understanding-box-model.html
It’s not trivial though; it means redoing the entire site using a
process which is not intuitive for Freeway users.

I wouldn’t recommend this for you, Julie. It introduces a level of
complexity that would be hugely counter-productive at this point in
time.

The other way you could do it is by using the old Freeway method
with the CSS button off

Yes, try this way.
Click the big blue button in the document’s tool bar so that it goes
gray - this means any new things you make from now on will not be
positioned using CSS. Then select each existing item in turn and
UNcheck the Layer checkbox in the Inspector palette. Do this
individually for each item.

You don’t need to do anything else - don’t try making an actual table
structure yourself, that’s not what Paul meant.

k


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

Kieth thank you…

How do you make the grid… Since you brought it up. Lol

I agree w your thoughts on the box… Trust me I do.
I lt aligned the addy it just did not look right. I will try it again.
Also just for clarification, the graphic txt boxes… Just left align
the words or both??

Thank you ver much.
Great video… U must be proud!
I posted on fb and all friends loved it

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2009, at 9:26, Keith Martin email@hidden wrote:

Sometime around 22/10/09 (at 18:05 +0100) Paul Bradforth said:

I’ll stick my neck out and risk the disagreement of the forum here,
and say that the only thing that should ever be centred is a
restaurant menu, and I have my doubts about that.

You, me and Jan Tschichold. :slight_smile:

Julie, the biggest problems with your designs come from having no
underlying grid structure to help you place and align things
consistently. You should set up a grid (not arbitrarily) on your
master page so it appears on every page in your site, then use that
grid to help you achieve two important things:

(a) Placing things consistently
(b) Arranging things so they relate to each other in visually
logical ways

but the rest is all left aligned. (and I double checked that
before I wrote this)

The ‘About Us’ page text is now left-aligned; it wasn’t just now
though.

The address on that page is still centered. Also, the graphic-text
titles in the Forms and various Programs pages are centered.

http://danjasker.blogspot.com/2008/07/fw5-understanding-box-
model.html
It’s not trivial though; it means redoing the entire site using a
process which is not intuitive for Freeway users.

I wouldn’t recommend this for you, Julie. It introduces a level of
complexity that would be hugely counter-productive at this point in
time.

The other way you could do it is by using the old Freeway method
with the CSS button off

Yes, try this way.
Click the big blue button in the document’s tool bar so that it goes
gray - this means any new things you make from now on will not be
positioned using CSS. Then select each existing item in turn and
UNcheck the Layer checkbox in the Inspector palette. Do this
individually for each item.

You don’t need to do anything else - don’t try making an actual
table structure yourself, that’s not what Paul meant.

k


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

On 24 Oct 2009, at 14:59, Julie wrote:

How do you make the grid… Since you brought it up. Lol

Julie, maybe just once, you could read the manual? I don’t mean to
sound rude, but really …

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

I was joking hence the lol

I read the manual… But when I can not get a “grip” on it I ask but I
was literally joking about the grid.

J

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2009, at 10:06, Paul Bradforth email@hidden wrote:

On 24 Oct 2009, at 14:59, Julie wrote:

How do you make the grid… Since you brought it up. Lol

Julie, maybe just once, you could read the manual? I don’t mean to
sound rude, but really …

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

On 24 Oct 2009, at 15:33, Julie wrote:

I read the manual… But when I can not get a “grip” on it I ask but
I was literally joking about the grid.

Ah, right. Email can be a tricky medium at times.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

It can be… And it’s hard to read peoples emotions / thoughts. That’s
why when I joke I put lol.

Thank you for your help

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2009, at 10:55, Paul Bradforth email@hidden wrote:

On 24 Oct 2009, at 15:33, Julie wrote:

I read the manual… But when I can not get a “grip” on it I ask but
I was literally joking about the grid.

Ah, right. Email can be a tricky medium at times.

best wishes,

Paul Bradforth

http://www.paulbradforth.com


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

Yeah, actual tables (using the table tool) should really only be used for tabular information. Using html boxes (with blue outlines) technically makes a table in the code, but you can lay it out however you want.

I’m still struggling with the CSS box model myself. I have yet to have the confidence to use it on a live site!

Bob


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

I watched the great video… And felt I would be feeling the same way.
I will work on the non layered boxes and grid first. Play w the box
model such as your self, till I feel comfortable.

Thank you

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2009, at 11:09, Robert B email@hidden wrote:

Yeah, actual tables (using the table tool) should really only be
used for tabular information. Using html boxes (with blue outlines)
technically makes a table in the code, but you can lay it out
however you want.

I’m still struggling with the CSS box model myself. I have yet to
have the confidence to use it on a live site!

Bob


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

Julie, the biggest problems with your designs come from having no underlying grid structure to help you place and align things consistently. You should set up a grid (not arbitrarily) on your master page so it appears on every page in your site, then use that grid to help you achieve two important things:

@ Placing things consistently (b) Arranging things so they relate to each other in visually logical ways

Julie unfortunately you’re between a a rock and a hard place. You need to get to grips with a software application and some basic design skills. It can be done but it will take some hard work.

On the design side, do yourself a favor and invest in the following two books. Grid Systems by Kimberly Elam and Design Elements, A Graphic Style Manual by Timothy Samara (Get some of Samara’s other books on typography and design, Im sure you will find them helpful if you’re serious about at becoming a better designer). My fourteen year old son read both these books and he has a better grasp of layout than some 3rd year design students. Both these books are full of visuals but you will learn a lot when you actually go beyond the pictures and read them.

A lot of the layout and grid questions have been covered in some of your previous posts. Go check them out again.

Cheers, Marcel

Links to Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Grid-Systems-Principles-Organizing-Design/dp/1568984650

http://www.amazon.com/Design-Elements-Graphic-Style-Manual/dp/1592532616/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256398402&sr=1-1


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

I was literally joking about the grid.

In that case you won’t want to see this…

http://www.thehelpful.com/julie/example.gif
A quick remake using your graphics (plus a cloud that floated past)
and a simple five-column grid structure in Freeway.

The page itself is here:
http://www.thehelpful.com/julie/

  • and you can download the Freeway document from there and take it
    apart if you like learning that way. It really is pretty simple; no
    box model, just layered items above the menu and unlayered below. And
    no graphic text either, other than the ‘download the Freeway example’
    thing.

k


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

Kieth u are amazing!
I will look at it in a few

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:17, Keith Martin email@hidden wrote:

I was literally joking about the grid.

In that case you won’t want to see this…

http://www.thehelpful.com/julie/example.gif
A quick remake using your graphics (plus a cloud that floated past)
and a simple five-column grid structure in Freeway.

The page itself is here:
http://www.thehelpful.com/julie/

  • and you can download the Freeway document from there and take it
    apart if you like learning that way. It really is pretty simple; no
    box model, just layered items above the menu and unlayered below.
    And no graphic text either, other than the ‘download the Freeway
    example’ thing.

k


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

I will I have to sit down at nap time and work on the suggestions.

Thank you. I am getting a grip on fw slowly… Doing this pt, single
mom etc…
I am trying and think I am slowly grasping.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:11, Helveticus email@hidden wrote:

Julie, the biggest problems with your designs come from having no
underlying grid structure to help you place and align things
consistently. You should set up a grid (not arbitrarily) on your
master page so it appears on every page in your site, then use that
grid to help you achieve two important things:

@ Placing things consistently (b) Arranging things so they relate
to each other in visually logical ways

Julie unfortunately you’re between a a rock and a hard place. You
need to get to grips with a software application and some basic
design skills. It can be done but it will take some hard work.

On the design side, do yourself a favor and invest in the following
two books. Grid Systems by Kimberly Elam and Design Elements, A
Graphic Style Manual by Timothy Samara (Get some of Samara’s other
books on typography and design, Im sure you will find them helpful
if you’re serious about at becoming a better designer). My fourteen
year old son read both these books and he has a better grasp of
layout than some 3rd year design students. Both these books are full
of visuals but you will learn a lot when you actually go beyond the
pictures and read them.

A lot of the layout and grid questions have been covered in some of
your previous posts. Go check them out again.

Cheers, Marcel

Links to Amazon:

Amazon.com

Amazon.com


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options

Sorry for the personal rant. Just wanted u guys to understand y it’s
taking me forever.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:28, Julie email@hidden wrote:

I will I have to sit down at nap time and work on the suggestions.

Thank you. I am getting a grip on fw slowly… Doing this pt, single
mom etc…
I am trying and think I am slowly grasping.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 24, 2009, at 12:11, Helveticus email@hidden wrote:

Julie, the biggest problems with your designs come from having no
underlying grid structure to help you place and align things
consistently. You should set up a grid (not arbitrarily) on your
master page so it appears on every page in your site, then use
that grid to help you achieve two important things:

@ Placing things consistently (b) Arranging things so they relate
to each other in visually logical ways

Julie unfortunately you’re between a a rock and a hard place. You
need to get to grips with a software application and some basic
design skills. It can be done but it will take some hard work.

On the design side, do yourself a favor and invest in the following
two books. Grid Systems by Kimberly Elam and Design Elements, A
Graphic Style Manual by Timothy Samara (Get some of Samara’s other
books on typography and design, Im sure you will find them helpful
if you’re serious about at becoming a better designer). My fourteen
year old son read both these books and he has a better grasp of
layout than some 3rd year design students. Both these books are
full of visuals but you will learn a lot when you actually go
beyond the pictures and read them.

A lot of the layout and grid questions have been covered in some of
your previous posts. Go check them out again.

Cheers, Marcel

Links to Amazon:

Amazon.com

Amazon.com


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options


freewaytalk mailing list
email@hidden
Update your subscriptions at:
http://freewaytalk.net/person/options